DPS Problems, We Can No Longer Ignore "The Elephant In The Living Room"

Way2Fast · 10-20-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Way2Fast

I got the info about the 3 reported injuries on the web. I found it while looking under NHTSA recalls. I should have wrote down the address because I can no longer find it. I believe it was posted by a cycle magazine. I agree that anyone who has had any questionable issue with the steering should file a report with the NHTSA. Lighting a fire under BRP's butt might be the only way they will be forced into doing something about the issue as the employees who man their phones don't appear to even know a problem exists.

I found one of the sites that reported the injuries but it isn't the one where iI read about them before.

www.green.autoblog.com/tag/can-am+spyder/

This should take you to Autobloggreen-Reviews where you will see an artical titled "Nearly 10,000 Recalls Over Faulty Steering"

**Firefly** · 10-20-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Way2Fast

I found one of the sites that reported the injuries but it isn't the one where iI read about them before.

www.green.autoblog.com/tag/can-am+spyder/

This should take you to Autobloggreen-Reviews where you will see an artical titled "Nearly 10,000 Recalls Over Faulty Steering"

I don't doubt that you saw an article about some injuries --- but unless it's on the NHTSA website --- it basically didn't happen-- at least not legally.

Too much mis-information on them thar internets ya know......

I recall two posted crashes on either here or the other site-- one was pretty extensive injuries (broken ribs, etc.) - the other was just a bruised wrist.

**Questions** · 10-20-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by jcbatt

Wow, I am sure am glad I did not extensively read the forums before buying a Spyder. I may have been scared away by all the negativity. You all are doing a great job of scaring away potential owners. My experience has been nothing but positive, and I will guarantee you there are a LOT more silent owners with positive experiences than those posting negative bits on forums. I understand the vocal minority likes to vent on problems, but I have always been perplexed by why. It does nothing but kill the resale value of the thing you currently own and so dislike.

While I respect your view ,I dont believe anyone is trying to scare away potential buyers,they are simply trying to have problems addressed and are sharing their views with others . Of course I want my resale value to be as high as possible and I love my

BUT the support from BRP is the WORST I have come accross in all my buying experiences.They dont monitor their dealers activities and mine definitely needs a tune up .I feel you can judge a company by the way they address the problems of their customers BRP gets an F on this one .I also own a Can Am Renegade X ATV andin my opinion their dealers do not know what they are doing SO...what good is a warranty anyway.

if they dont acknowledge a problem exists?
My

is my Daily driver (not just a collectors item)and I have been waiting for an oil leak to be fixed right from day one ,it was bought in August this year ...still no fix ... no contact from the dealer ,my calls and e-mails go ignored is this what BRP call customer service?. I have sent a registered letter to make them aware of my issues .It has been recieved with no resolution.Where is the supervision that the product is being represented in a good way ?
You say:I understand the vocal minority likes to vent on problems, but I have always been perplexed by why?

Perhaps its because they have spent a lot of their hard earned money on a Spyder , only to have issues on many fronts and are being ignored .
I truly hope you continue to have a positive experience with your

but when this changes PLEASE please speak up publicly about it so it cannot be ignored .
Now these updates and updates to the updates which are not proven reliable or safe.What is next?
I thank Magic man for shining a bright light on this issue

Just for the record love my

hate the service or lack of.

Cheers

**WaltH** · 10-20-2009, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

Very Good Magic man. Now that the 2 yr warrenty is almost up on the first ones. And we have continuing problems is BRP going to stand behind them or are we going to have to deal with it ourselves and out of our own pockets. When the warrenty is gone????

Other manufacturers have been known to maintain silent warranties for situations like this where there is a known problem which has not been resolved. BRP could continue to warranty the DPS problems beyond the two year time frame. I would expect this to be their policy.

**Questions** · 10-20-2009, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by BLACK WIDOW

Lamont, I certainly hope you are right about BRP actively working the issues that have obviously spawned concern among owners and potential owners. I enjoy my Spyder and have considered selling the Wing because I like riding the Spyder much more, but I never had any concerns of being dumped with the Wing and actually never gave it a thought (may have been false security). BRP can do a lot to ease concerns by simply letting owners know they are working for us and not trying to skirt the issues. I have faith that they will do this and restore confidence in the Spyder faithful. I understand your point in running a SPYDER LOVERS forum when it seems as though all the post are SPYDER HATERS. I know there is a lot of over reaction here but there are valid issues involved and what better place to air them than on a popular forum. Things will settle and we will get back to talking about oil and octane soon enough.

Michael

I totally agree

**WaltH** · 10-20-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Magic Man

They do make airplanes!!!!!!!

As a matter of fact we were on one from Albany to NJ on our way to Daytona last week!

MM

They don't make airplanes. BRP was spun off from the parent company in 2003. BRP only makes recreational products and has nothing to do with the other Bombardier companies. I think they do sell Rotax engines for use in very small airplanes (not sure about this).

**mrb** · 10-20-2009, 05:09 PM

[quote=Lamonster;

I think it sucks that I run a "SpyderLovers" forum and there are so many problems that seem to take over the board but I still think for the most part folks are happy with their Spyders and most of them have never had a problem with their units. [/quote]

Lamont- I think most of us still love these unique and innovative vehicles but are concerned for the possible saftey issues.
Those that don't "love them" would have just sold them and moved on, as some have.

The things discussed on your forum and the opinions given may well save some of us from injury - this does not "suck" - you should be proud of the job you do here.

Like other have said I love my Spyder but am concerned. If my concern is proven to be unsubstantiated then that is great.

**Sarge707** · 10-20-2009, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I would also recommend everyone find a stretch of country road and practice hitting the kill switch and coasting to a controlled stop.

I believe this procedure is detailed in the owners guide.

Thanks Brother!! I already practise emergency stops at about 40 MPH (Including swerving to the Right -Left). NOW I,LL add your kill switch exercise every ride and then Just go Enjoy the you know what out of my Spyder!!!! I just LOVE the Acceleration on lonely back roads!!!

**Smylinacha** · 10-20-2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by mrb

Lamont- I think most of us still love these unique and innovative vehicles but are concerned for the possible saftey issues.
Those that don't "love them" would have just sold them and moved on, as some have.

The things discussed on your forum and the opinions given may well save some of us from injury - this does not "suck" - you should be proud of the job you do here.

Like other have said I love my Spyder but am concerned. If my concern is proven to be unsubstantiated then that is great.

And I'm a Mom, I have kids and I'd really like to be around for grandkids some day. This board doesn't suck - quite the opposite - there is more info on here than the spyder.brp website. This is the only place where you can get opinions, good & bad. I guess for some people who love their Spyders, they don't like hearing the negatives so yes, that's a total downer. But we need all honesty in here - what is going on, the pros, the cons, the fears, the joys. If it's not a melting pot of emotions, then it would be hard for me to believe that this thing is totally flawless and the company is PERFECT. I work in a place where I'm am working w/ the top of the food chain - THE ABSOLUTE TOP - and believe me, nobody who uses our product knows the inner workings of this place - there's alot of bad w/ the good, that's for sure. We are just good at hiding the bad.

**Dochands** · 10-20-2009, 05:34 PM

lol at my updated epitaph.

My conclusion from all these posts.

Ride cautiously and follow logical and legal limits for speed and terrain. If you don't trust your vehicle you never push it to the limit.

Know how to stop your bike in the event of an emergency. This needs to be a practiced skill so that muscle memory takes over in the event of an accident. Relying on a quick read of the manual without practice is extremely dangerous.

Risk management is part, perhaps an unfortunate part, of any product. Unless a higher organization gets involved, letters, calls, and complaints can and will go unheeded.

File a complaint with the appropriate agency and feel free to file again should there be another incident. Most recalls are performed based on simple numbers.

I can only hope that these are the unfortunate experiences of a few riders percentage wise but they cannot be ignored and the problem misunderstood or it puts us all potentially at peril.

**Smylinacha** · 10-20-2009, 05:44 PM

I was following legal limits when my mishaps happened. Still scared me. I don't do the illegal limits anymore - too scared to do them - I miss the good times - I miss going 100 down Route 8.

I do know the emergency rules, I took the course, I've practiced them. So I'm good to go there.

Just alot of stuff lately has taken my enjoyment out of riding. I was so happy to get home from TN in one piece. I had a WONDERFUL time down there but it was always in the back of my mind.

**BRPjunkie** · 10-20-2009, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by NancysToy

Folks, this topic is getting way out of hand. I respect everyone's right to say their piece, and even complimented MagicMan for his first post and starting this thread. Some things certainly have to be said. They do not, however, have to be said over, and over, and over, and over again. We all get the drift! Let's give this thing a little time, let BRP respond to Pitmon and any others who have reported problems, as Lamont said they were doing, and then, if it needs another push, get behind and shove again. All we are realy doing by

is upsetting owners, scaring potential buyers, and unnecessarily (for now) beating up BRP. Give them a chance to respond, for heaven's sake. I know it is the "instant" age of text messaging and all that rot, but these things take time. Let's be courteous enough to allow a little. BTW, my absolutely arbitrary opinion is that there are actually several issues at large, related only by the fact that they all may affect the steering. If that is the case, this will surely take some time to sort out.

Going over all the posts over time here, and injecting a bit of my own experience, I have put together my list of possible areas of concern/causes:

1. DPS that has never worked, or has failed completely.
2. DPS fault displayed on cluster after update.
3. DPS that "steers itself", and most often seems to cause excursions to the left.
4. DPS that fails to respond immediately as rider expects, then kicks in suddenly, causing overcorrection. (This is the one the update was supposed to cure.)
5. Intermittent DPS. (Another scary one.)
6. Related sensor malfunctions or sensor(s) out of calibration.
7. Possible CANBUS noise caused by other sensors (GPS?) that affect steering.
8. Possible VCM or related sensor issues that cause VSS errors that affect steering.
9. Programming that can allow certain conditions to cause difficulty in steering Spyder, or loss of control upon failure or malfunction.

I'm sure BRP considered all of these when designing and testing the Spyder, but IMO they need a second, third, or fourth look.

DISCLAIMER: I am not in any way diminishing these real and frightening events or making excuses for BRP or its dealers. Just applying my professional experience as a risk manager.

Possible causes of the reported events involve complex interlinked systems as Scotty notes above. Reports of events on this or other sites do not provide the necessary data for diagnosis. Statistical analysis requires sufficient data to begin to see a pattern. We still do not know how many actual events have occurred, if they are related in terms of specific components, if they are on 2008, 2009, SE, SM, if hardware or software is invloved, if update 1 or update 2 was done, if either was done right by the dealer, etc. Until some of these factors can be identified, documented and fully investigated, the causes will be speculation. Plane crashes even with voice recorders and black boxes take months to resolve. BRP is not ignoring these events and neither they or us are served by trying to guess what is wrong or trying random fixes that may not get to the root cause. It is very possible that there is not a single cause and these events might be random failures of different components. BRP did extensive testing on the design and components in dozens of prototypes. Now there are over 15,000 tests being conducted, however, BRP does not have the same access or control over the test results to analyze. None of us is happy waiting, but until statistical evidence can be obtained, that is what we have to do.

**hondaman** · 10-20-2009, 06:40 PM

I would not let my EX WIFE ride my spyder after the way the steering was acting today on some country roads.It tried to steer offroad and into a car several times in 3 miles.It just went crazy.If she was on it im shure she would have crashed............................

**Questions** · 10-20-2009, 07:12 PM

Terrence and Phillip!!!

Now that was the BEST post of the day. I am laughing my azz off

**Putt-Putt** · 10-20-2009, 07:33 PM

And as I said in a previous post, I called brp TODAY AND HE SAID IT WAS THE FIRST HE HAD HEARD OF THIS. Can I be the only one to call them?

**Questions** · 10-20-2009, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

And as I said in a previous post, I called brp TODAY AND HE SAID IT WAS THE FIRST HE HAD HEARD OF THIS. Can I be the only one to call them?

Did you talk to Terrence or Phillip?

**Firefly** · 10-20-2009, 07:47 PM

I had a bit of time (went for a ride) to reflect on the various opinions on this whole subject and decided I really do feel safe on my Spyder. In fact - I still think it's the safest MC on the road.

Looking at the big picture - and comparing riding the Spyder to another MC - hands down the Spyder is safer. A patch of gravel, rain, leafs, a large bunny, etc. are not going to make you kiss the asphalt - like they can do on 2 wheels. There have been 2 Spyders that I know of that hit deer at 60+ mph --- and both riders walked away just fine--- something you wouldn't do on 2 wheelse.

If I was looking to be safe on the road - the Spyder would still be the #1 choice compared to any other bike out there.

Even with a *possible* steering failure - I'll take that slight chance over loose gravel on a curve any day.

Now---- that isn't to say that if my Spyder was having PS problems I would keep riding it--- those that are having steering issues should get them in and fixed asap ---- those that don't have the problems --- be aware--- but realize you're still on the safest bike on the road and your Spyder may never have those problems.

RIDE UP !

**Smylinacha** · 10-20-2009, 07:49 PM

Well I just posted my complaint on that website - vin # and all.

Originally Posted by BRPjunkie

DISCLAIMER: I am not in any way diminishing these real and frightening events or making excuses for BRP or its dealers. Just applying my professional experience as a risk manager.

Possible causes of the reported events involve complex interlinked systems as Scotty notes above. Reports of events on this or other sites do not provide the necessary data for diagnosis. Statistical analysis requires sufficient data to begin to see a pattern. We still do not know how many actual events have occurred, if they are related in terms of specific components, if they are on 2008, 2009, SE, SM, if hardware or software is invloved, if update 1 or update 2 was done, if either was done right by the dealer, etc. Until some of these factors can be identified, documented and fully investigated, the causes will be speculation. Plane crashes even with voice recorders and black boxes take months to resolve. BRP is not ignoring these events and neither they or us are served by trying to guess what is wrong or trying random fixes that may not get to the root cause. It is very possible that there is not a single cause and these events might be random failures of different components. BRP did extensive testing on the design and components in dozens of prototypes. Now there are over 15,000 tests being conducted, however, BRP does not have the same access or control over the test results to analyze. None of us is happy waiting, but until statistical evidence can be obtained, that is what we have to do.

**Putt-Putt** · 10-20-2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

Did you talk to Terrence or Phillip?

No it was neither one. I fogot his name but was different definitely was French.

**Smylinacha** · 10-20-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

No it was neither one. I fogot his name but was different definitely was French.

**rleathen** · 10-20-2009, 08:08 PM

Firefly your attitude is commendable !!

**Putt-Putt** · 10-20-2009, 08:09 PM

Hey what can I say? I had a hard time saying it when he told me it.

**Smylinacha** · 10-20-2009, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

Hey what can I say? I had a hard time saying it when he told me it.

Check your pm's - just sent you one.

**tatt2r** · 10-20-2009, 08:32 PM

1st off no disrepect to anyone but I've had this happen and I drive my spyder like an idiot ,,, I keep my mind focused that this might happen if it steers easy fine if it doesn't fine I'm hopeing they fix problem an of course don't want to see anyone get hurt ... I've driven some real pieces of sh!7 in my life and my spyder is still the best vehicle and most fun I've ever owned and I will still ride and just keep my reflexes aware that problems can happen but I will not sell
again no disrespect

**SFC** · 10-20-2009, 08:51 PM

i bought my spyder in june of 2009 I love it I'm disabeled and can not ride a two will of any weight. I ' happy with how my service man takes care of my recals and attempts to answer questions . I had a problem with my frount tires need to change at 6000 miles and finding no reason. BPR told my service man "too many right turns" stuip me I didn't know right turns would ware the tires out sooner. The dealer found a means of alligniment and built the machine BPR recomened and I will be returning with 11000 miles on my spyder. i am not a wealthy man and do not want to have to sue or take leagle maters or have my family do anything if this bike kills me. but expecting only possitive coments should not expected. I have learned alot from info on this site and have made my dealer a pro. I would much rather see a listing of things peopld have done with the spyder mods add ons.recals ect. This seems more interesting and than "I went were no on has gone before and fill space jab jawing on dumb jokes. This is my first responce bu I agree with a number of people on othe blogs and this location BPR is missing the boat for future bussiness and referrals if they don't jump in and make some corrections repairs. They may need to open the pocket book for a change.???

i love elephants

Thread: DPS Problems, We Can No Longer Ignore "The Elephant In The Living Room"

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