Steering almost got me killed!

**pitmon** · 10-17-2009, 04:25 PM

I took my spyder in for the second update and it seemed to run fine, like it use to before the first update. I was excited because we were to leave Saturday (today) to go to the mountains in Tennessee for vacation and were planning to ride the bikes. I made it as far as Atlanta Ga and then the steering went completely crazy on the spyder. I couldn't steer at all. At first it just won't go where you steer and then all of a sudden it jerks and goes all over. There are no errors or codes coming up on the screen at all, just cannot control the thing. I was in heavy traffic on the interstate when it failed. I was lucky I was not hurt or even killed. I had absolutely no control at all. I barely got it off the road and limped to a nearby hotel. I also had the throttle rev twice without my touching it. I had to hit the kill switch to shut it off. As it stands I am 380 miles from home, had to cancel my reservations at the campsite in Tennessee because there is no way I can drive the bike to get there. I called a nearby dealer and they told me that it would be Tuesday before they could contact BRP and then probably Thursday or later before they could fix it, that is if they can figure out what is wrong with it. The tech guy told me that this new update has caused a lot of the steering boxes to fail and probably that is what it is, but he doesn't know for sure without seeing the bike and even if it is he doesn't have one. Therefore we are having to cancel our vacation and find a way to get the bike home to Florida. This is certainly not the way I wanted to take my vacation. Someone is going to get seriously hurt or even killed because of this problem. What a bummer. I am out a lot of money, my week off from work, and no telling what it will cost to just get home now. At this point I am a very unhappy spyder owner.

**Smylinacha** · 10-17-2009, 04:34 PM

Wow - that stinks!

I know what you mean about the steering - When I was in TN is happened twice with me and I thought it was all my imagination. I didn't say anything to anyone at first because I just figured they'd think I was imagining things.

It didn't happen to me as bad as it did to you but I was on a main road only going about 35 and the road was curving right. So I was steering slightly right when all by itself it wanted to take a "hard" right. Well I turned the bars left to counteract it and it made a weird "click" when I did that. It happened one other time - on the way to Lamonster's BBQ. There was a tech there and he did the 2nd update in Lamonster's garage and I've been fine since but it's always still in the back of my mind - it is freaky.

Well if this doesn't get resolved, I'm sure someone will get hurt or killed and then the lawsuits will start.

Don't know what to tell ya but I'm glad you are safe. Keep me posted on what your dealer says & does.

**Firefly** · 10-17-2009, 04:37 PM

Total bummer. Sure sounds like the DPS is bad or the software update caused a glitch.

Have you checked your relays and fuses? You can remove the DPS fuse (can't recall which one it is off hand) and therefore disable the power steering. You should then be able to ride it without worrying about the power steering causing any conflicts--- but the steering will be tight.

I wouldn't try to ride in the Smokies without the power steering - but you should be able to do highway riding to get home. The power steering is basically shut off at highway speeds anyway.

Other than removing that fuse and riding it---- I would NOT attempt to ride it.

**pitmon** · 10-17-2009, 04:46 PM

Thanks Firefly, I will get out the book and see what I can figure out. Maybe I can limp it home that way.

**Dudley** · 10-17-2009, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

Total bummer. Sure sounds like the DPS is bad or the software update caused a glitch.

Have you checked your relays and fuses? You can remove the DPS fuse (can't recall which one it is off hand) and therefore disable the power steering. You should then be able to ride it without worrying about the power steering causing any conflicts--- but the steering will be tight.

I wouldn't try to ride in the Smokies without the power steering - but you should be able to do highway riding to get home. The power steering is basically shut off at highway speeds anyway.

Other than removing that fuse and riding it---- I would NOT attempt to ride it.

I agree. At least try it locally without the fuse and test the reaction.

**jwfranklin** · 10-17-2009, 04:51 PM

Sorry to hear of your problems. Being from the Atlanta area, I have a few questions to ask. Atlanta is a big place, could you give me a better idea where you are at? The 3 Spyder dealers in Atlanta are on the northeast side of town, 30 to 50 miles out, as am I. the two I have dealt with, Lawrenceville & Cumming are closed on Monday, There is another dealer, in Gainesville, a little further out, that I beleive is open on Monday. I personally haven't had any dealings with them, but have heard they are open. Anything I can do to help, please ask.

Wayne

**Smylinacha** · 10-17-2009, 04:52 PM

With what is going on - there is NO WAY in h#ll I'd take that thing on the highway. I'd rather hit a tree going at 50 mph on a back country road than hit another car going 80 on the highway.

**Roaddog2** · 10-17-2009, 04:54 PM

1 glad your OK.
2 This has not happened to me but hearing about it is not good and certainly believe this is going on

3 Starting to wish I never sprung for this thing though I love it

it is a maintenance nightmare and to much bad

going on with it

were is Ralf Nater when you need him

**Smylinacha** · 10-17-2009, 05:05 PM

WHAT DOES RALPH NADER GOT TO DO W/ HIT? DON'T GET ME STARTED OR THIS MR. LAMONSTER WILL HAVE TO END UP REMOVING THIS THREAD.

Originally Posted by Roaddog2

1 glad your OK.
2 This has not happened to me but hearing about it is not good and certainly believe this is going on

3 Starting to wish I never sprung for this thing though I love it

it is a maintenance nightmare and to much bad

going on with it

were is Ralf Nater when you need him

**RoadHammer** · 10-17-2009, 05:11 PM

more and more I feel like we are the testers of this brp product

Hope you get your steering fixed.

**NancysToy** · 10-17-2009, 06:01 PM

So glad you're OK!!! You are an experienced Spyder rider, and that might have saved the day. I hope pulling the fuse will let you finish your trip, or at least get home. My prayers will go out for a safe finish for your journey.

A few Spyders had severe and sudden steering problems of this nature before the recall. Complaints about those led to BRP's software "fix". I expressed my concerns at that time that the steering update could be a Band-Aid that either masked or exacerbated the underlying steering problem, which could actuallly be either mechanical or electronic. I do not believe the original problems were a matter of operator perception and over-reaction, as BRP indicated. Now that a lot of Spyders have completed the steering update, there seems to be a rash of these severe steering interruptions again...even more than before. I urge anyone who has experienced such an incident since the update to file a complaint with the NHTSA...ASAP! It looks to me like BRP did not find the true root of the problem, and may have actually exacerbated the steering issues with their update. Let's all hope they get to the root of this second round quickly. NHSTA complaints about failures following the recall should help move things along.

**Love2Ride** · 10-17-2009, 06:23 PM

I'm so glad that you weren't hurt. I was on I95 just yesterday in the pouring rain and the thought of something happening like that just makes my blood run cold.

These things are so dang computerized that they're bound to have issues. It was pretty much the only way they could be made street legal. That's what I heard anyway.

I do think we need to be aware of the problem when we're riding tho. I thank you for telling us about it. I was under the impression that the second fix was for the steering problem.

At any rate, I love my bike and I'm willing to work WITH BRP to fix problems, not against them. This is a whole new ball game in the sport of bikeriding. We're not so much "testers" as we are pioneers.

I do hope that BRP will work with us too.

BTW... How long since your update did you have this happen?? Just curious. If you can't get help in Atlanta let me know. I'm in SC and the guys at Hilton Head Motorsports might be able to assist you in some way.

**Firefly** · 10-17-2009, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by pitmon

Thanks Firefly, I will get out the book and see what I can figure out. Maybe I can limp it home that way.

I'm not near my bike or my manuals right now or I could tell you which fuse it is. I think it's marked on the top of the fuse box.

The Spyder will run fine without the fuse in--- as in it will not go into limp mode---- you'll just not have power steering.

Once the power steering doesn't have power -- there is NO WAY it can 'fight' you or act up like it was.

Test it out in a parking lot and see how it feels - and just be aware that you will get a workout making turns......

**Firefly** · 10-17-2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Roaddog2

1 glad your OK.
2 This has not happened to me but hearing about it is not good and certainly believe this is going on

3 Starting to wish I never sprung for this thing though I love it

it is a maintenance nightmare and to much bad

going on with it

were is Ralf Nater when you need him

Unless you are personally having these specific problems - I don't see why you have such an opinion that the Spyder is suddenly a 'maintenance nightmare'. Most riders are not having any such problems. Have you?

Seems the handful of people recently having problems is bringing others out of the woodwork to bash BRP. You can go to any bike forum online and fine similar issues from a handful of owners - why should the Spyder be immune to this?

If you are personally having such problems - I fully understand why you would be upset - and you might need to make a decision to move on to another bike that is without any problems.

If you are not personally having problems with your Spyder - why complain?

BTW --- it's Ralph Nader --- and much like him getting rid of cars like the Corvair - if he had the power he would probably make all motorcycles illegal for highway use.

End of rant--- I think everyone needs a good RIDE !

**NewRider** · 10-17-2009, 07:59 PM

Truly sorry to hear about your problems. Glad you were able to avoid an accident.

Just as an exercise in troubleshooting...I'm wondering if these problems are confined to the SE5, or the SM5, or equitable to both.

That might be a way for we owners to narrow this down, then report it to both NHTSA and BRP.

**Smylinacha** · 10-17-2009, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

Unless you are personally having these specific problems - I don't see why you have such an opinion that the Spyder is suddenly a 'maintenance nightmare'. Most riders are not having any such problems. Have you?
End of rant--- I think everyone needs a good RIDE !

Why is it when someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you freak out?

Also he DID have problems - lots of them - his problems took him out for quite a few weeks of his ryding season. And he's had constant little things going on ever since he got the thing.

I am beyond p*ssed right now. I do like my Spyder but I don't like seeing all these people w/ problems. Sure some don't have anything going on but makes me wonder what stick I'm gonna draw.

And this forum is a place for ALL opinions - the good, the bad and the ugly.

As for Ralph Nader, nah, never mind, I'll get banned. Nuff said.

**wolfshead1** · 10-17-2009, 08:37 PM

+1 Smylinatcha

Firefly could show more concern,these issues are big maybe even life threatening and certainly not the norm in motorcycle riding.

I'll give you they are probably rare but to the owner they are Big issues that may have a Big expense.

**phantom13lady** · 10-17-2009, 08:42 PM

I had a very odd thing happen with my steering today as well. I was on the interstate running about 70mph when I felt the steering pulling a bit to the left. I gently pulled back to the right and the bike's reaction was scary. It jerked and clicked to the right, and I didn't overcorrect to get it back to center. It wasn't enough to pull me out of my lane. I thought it was a quirk of the road, but didn't dismiss it.
2 miles later it started pulling again. Before I corrected this time, I slowed to about 62, eased the handlebar over with the push/pull method, and it jerked and clicked again. I was so fortunate that I was a mile from my dealership. My mechanic immediately hooked the Spyder to the computer and checked for any missed updates, upgrades, etc. There weren't any. He went through numerous screens and got to steering and the graphic was off a bit. In layman's terms, the bike's computer was reading that the steering was running off-center and was trying to correct it by pulling it to the left. The graphic was like looking at a clock. The hour hand should have been reading 12 o'clock, but it was displaying 1 o'clock.
That was reset to the 12 o'clock position, and my Spyder seems to be rolling along OK.

**GaryTheBadger** · 10-17-2009, 08:48 PM

phantom13 lady - Very Important...have you had either or both of the DPS recalls done? This info could help isolate under what conditions these steering issues occur. Thank you.

Way2Fast · 10-17-2009, 08:50 PM

I had a scary steering episode on 2 occasions. Both times I was riding on a straight level road (A1A) at about 50-55 mph when the Spyder made a sudden left turn into the opposing traffic lane. It was hard to regain control and had there been another vehicle in the southbound lane, a head on collision would have been impossible to avoid !

I was told by a former BRP test rider that the power steering is an active part of the Stability Control System. It is designed to prevent the rider from turning the bars too sharply at higher speeds. This is to prevent the rider from possibly loosing control and flipping the vehicle from turning too much. The power steering hits a sort of lock beyond a programed degree of handlebar turn, all dependent on the vehicles speed. Supposedly the bars can be "strong armed" beyond this point, but it would take a lot of effort. He said that any attempt to disable the power steering would put the vehicle in limp mode because doing so also affects the Stability Control System. During normal riding the operator makes many subconscience "corrections" with the bars to keep the vehicle going straight. BRP thinks that the steering is "locking" and there by hindering these small "corrections" causing the driver to force the handle bars too far in either direction and "oversteering" , resulting in a loss of control situation. This is what their recall computer fix is supposed to prevent. BS....I think it is a lot more involved than this. BRP is always looking for the easy way out...ie "cheapest fix" !! (Remember the hydraulic cylinder "fix" ? They sliced a hole in the master cylinder rubber diaphram that allows moisture laden air to contaminate the hydraulic fluid instead of admitting a design flaw in the master cylinder.)

Personally I think that the life threatening steering malfunctions involve more than just the power steering system. Perhaps the Stability Control computer is going haywire and applying the brakes to only one front wheel. This would cause the vehicle to pull sharply to one side. Along with a steering system that fights the drivers corrective actions and a throttle by wire also controlled by the runaway computer = the dangerous chain of events that can result in a fatal crash. A computer search revealed (as of last April) at least three documented accidents caused by steering problems. This was the basis for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's safety recall. God only knows how many accidents were caused by this problem that resulted in death and then blamed on "driver error" !!!!!!!! It is of the utmost importance that anyone who experienced any sort of control problem with their Spyder, contact the NHTSA with complete details of the incident. Their phone number, web site and mailing address can be found on the Safety Recall Notice sent to Spyder owners by BRP.

**NancysToy** · 10-17-2009, 08:53 PM

I have tried real hard to be positive here lately on the forum, and try to discuss these things without emotion or bashing. Like the sudden rash of fires this summer, though, I can't help being concerned over this one. Granted these incidents are a tiny percentage of the total Spyders made, but these are very serious problems, potentially deadly. I have lived my adult life pretty much at "Mach 2 with my hair on fire," as the saying goes. I have had one incident early on where the Spyder suddenly steered the opposite direction under certain conditions. I recovered, but then feared for my novice rider wife, and instructed her to watch out and we practiced what to do in such a situation. Now I worry about her again.

I have not done the steering update because I always felt it was a Band-Aid and the true cause was not being addressed. I do not recommend that approach, it is just my choice for the present. Eventually I will need dealer service and it will be done without my consent. So be it. The majority of owners have had the update. They may not have problems. Then again, if they do, they are likely to be scary and unexpected. I think it is at least appropriate for us to be aware, to discuss it, and to recommend reporting it. This is neither whining nor BRP bashing, IMO, just a good, lively discussion. Hopefully it will save some riders some grief and also instigate a proper cure, or at least a means of diagnosing which Spyders have this potential.

**Smylinacha** · 10-17-2009, 09:05 PM

So I can go on this NHTSA and fill out a report even though I think it was fixed when I was at the BBQ? If so, I'll do it tomorrow. Seems quite a few have had this problem. And I thought it was the road surface at first too. Then I figured I should keep my mouth shut cuz HDX would think I was whining about something or another again. I really don't want to see this happen and someone gets seriously hurt or killed.

And although I love computers - I'm beginning to not like them equipped on vehicles. Computers tend to screw up alot - at least the ones at work and my laptop sure does. I'd hate to have the thing reboot when I'm ryding on it!

Honest - it scares me, and it will make me broke in the long run - I really had NO IDEA it costs so much to keep up and I've never had bikes that cost that much, or cars for that matter, for the upkeep. I am thankful nothing major has gone wrong but it's always in the back of my mind now.

Way2Fast · 10-17-2009, 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=phantom13lady;151577]I had a very odd thing happen with my steering today as well. I was on the interstate running about 70mph when I felt the steering pulling a bit to the left. I gently pulled back to the right and the bike's reaction was scary. It jerked and clicked to the right, and I didn't overcorrect to get it back to center. It wasn't enough to pull me out of my lane. I thought it was a quirk of the road, but didn't dismiss it.
2 miles later it started pulling again. Before I corrected this time, I slowed to about 62, eased the handlebar over with the push/pull method, and it jerked and clicked again. I was so fortunate that I was a mile from my dealership. My mechanic immediately hooked the Spyder to the computer and checked for any missed updates, upgrades, etc. There weren't any. He went through numerous screens and got to steering and the graphic was off a bit. In layman's terms, the bike's computer was reading that the steering was running off-center and was trying to correct it by pulling it to the left. The graphic was like looking at a clock. The hour hand should have been reading 12 o'clock, but it was displaying 1 o'clock.
That was reset to the 12 o'clock position, and my Spyder seems to be rolling along OK.[/QUOTE

I'm glad that those of us relaying their experiences here were lucky enough to regain control of the Spyder and avoid an accident.

If the steering was running off center as the dealer stated, I would imagine that the handle bars would not be dead on when riding in a straight line, but rather turned slightly in one direction or another. Correcting this would require a mechanical adjustment to the steering linkage or a wheel alignment.

**phantom13lady** · 10-17-2009, 09:35 PM

to GARY...I have had all recalls, updates/upgrades. The first thing checked today was that. We looked twice just to be sure nothing had been missed. My dealer/mechanics are on top of that stuff ALL THE TIME. I love 'em for it!

to WAY2FAST...Handlebars WERE dead-on center. I wasn't drifting to the left. I could feel the handlebars trying to pull to the left.

Way2Fast · 10-17-2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by phantom13lady

to GARY...I have had all recalls, updates/upgrades. The first thing checked today was that. We looked twice just to be sure nothing had been missed. My dealer/mechanics are on top of that stuff ALL THE TIME. I love 'em for it!

to WAY2FAST...Handlebars WERE dead-on center. I wasn't drifting to the left. I could feel the handlebars trying to pull to the left.

Very similiar to how mine behaved....only difference is the pull to the left was sudden and violent enought to make the vehicle actually change lanes. When trying to regain control no 'clicks' were heard and there was no noticable increase in steering effort. Scary !!

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