Quatrac SL 165/60R15 fronts rubbing on fenders - anyone else? Fixes?

[Two2Three]

What I don't understand is how the fender can be lifted at all. This is the image from the shop manual. At the base of the fender strut, the bolts are horizontal, not vertical. So no washer is going to raise anything.

The struts connect to a sort of metal band that screws into the fender. So washers there don't seem to do anything either because the "band" isn't going to move any higher, so the fender also isn't moving higher.

Is it a completely different configuration in 2022?

fender.jpg

[Peter Aawen]

What I don't understand is how the fender can be lifted at all. This is the image from the shop manual. At the base of the fender strut, the bolts are horizontal, not vertical. So no washer is going to raise anything.

The struts connect to a sort of metal band that screws into the fender. So washers there don't seem to do anything either because the "band" isn't going to move any higher, so the fender also isn't moving higher.

Is it a completely different configuration in 2022?

fender.jpg

When you add washers/shims to the fenders you're not LIFTING the fender at all, Two; you're spacing it away from the tire SIDEWAYS, ie. moving the fender closer to the body of the Spyder and away from the sidewall of the tire, which is where most if not all of the rubbing people generally discover is found.

Some of the tire sizes people fit might need the outside edge of the fender to be gently lifted a touch in order to slide the tire into the space underneath it (like those I'm running! ) but generally, if a tire really 'doesn't fit' UNDER the fender, then you aren't going to be able to move your Spyder at all without the tire tread rubbing on the entire length of at least the fender lip & the ends, if not the entire length of the inside curve of the fender too!! But if the tire juuust touches somewhere WHILE you're riding, so you occasionally hear it rubbing while cornering etc, then it's most likely going to be rubbing on either the inner guard/skirt part of the fender; the struts that support the fender; the fender light wiring that's run up one of the struts; or maybe the raised heads of the hex screws that hold the fender onto the struts are juuust touching the inner edge of the tread cos they protrude down into the wheel well too far!

These can all usually be fixed fairly easily by using one or more of the methods mentioned already in this thread - by doing things like running the right (lower) tire pressures so that the body of the tire doesn't deform during cornering so much up where the fender inner guard/skirt is; by adding those washers to space the fender sideways away from the sidewalls (I only know of a couple of Spyder owners who simply removed those inner skirts entirely instead! ); by tucking the wiring away from the tire instead of leaving it exposed to being touched by the sidewall; or by fitting flatter 'low rise' pan head screws (readily sourced from most auto-body stores or fastener suppliers) that don't protrude into the wheel's space instead of the OEM hex head screws that protrude about 10mm's into the space the tire runs in!

So if you're hearing OCCASIONAL rubbing, especially if it's only during cornering, then you're not likely to need to LIFT the fender up away from the tire tread, you're far more likely to need to space the fender AWAY from the sidewall to address the rubbing on the sidewalls &/or maybe look at your tire pressures. But if you jack each side up in turn and take the wheel so you can look inside/behind and see WHERE it's actually touching/rubbing, then if you've ever heard it rubbing, wherever it's been touching should be pretty obvious - while you're in there looking, check out the tops of those hex head screws to see if you also need to swap out those screws with their raised heads, and you might want to take the time to have a look at how thick your brake pads are as well! Never hurts to check around in there while you've got easy access!!

Do you already know where exactly your tires are rubbing on the fender??

[Two2Three]

When you add washers/shims to the fenders you're not LIFTING the fender at all, Two; you're spacing it away from the tire SIDEWAYS, ie. moving the fender closer to the body of the Spyder and away from the sidewall of the tire, which is where most if not all of the rubbing people generally discover is found.

Some of the tire sizes people fit might need the outside edge of the fender to be gently lifted a touch in order to slide the tire into the space underneath it (like those I'm running! ) but generally, if a tire really 'doesn't fit' UNDER the fender, then you aren't going to be able to move your Spyder at all without the tire tread rubbing on the entire length of at least the fender lip & the ends, if not the entire length of the inside curve of the fender too!! But if the tire juuust touches somewhere WHILE you're riding, so you occasionally hear it rubbing while cornering etc, then it's most likely going to be rubbing on either the inner guard/skirt part of the fender; the struts that support the fender; the fender light wiring that's run up one of the struts; or maybe the raised heads of the hex screws that hold the fender onto the struts are juuust touching the inner edge of the tread cos they protrude down into the wheel well too far!

These can all usually be fixed fairly easily by using one or more of the methods mentioned already in this thread - by doing things like running the right (lower) tire pressures so that the body of the tire doesn't deform during cornering so much up where the fender inner guard/skirt is; by adding those washers to space the fender sideways away from the sidewalls (I only know of a couple of Spyder owners who simply removed those inner skirts entirely instead! ); by tucking the wiring away from the tire instead of leaving it exposed to being touched by the sidewall; or by fitting flatter 'low rise' pan head screws (readily sourced from most auto-body stores or fastener suppliers) that don't protrude into the wheel's space instead of the OEM hex head screws that protrude about 10mm's into the space the tire runs in!

So if you're hearing OCCASIONAL rubbing, especially if it's only during cornering, then you're not likely to need to LIFT the fender up away from the tire tread, you're far more likely to need to space the fender AWAY from the sidewall to address the rubbing on the sidewalls &/or maybe look at your tire pressures. But if you jack each side up in turn and take the wheel so you can look inside/behind and see WHERE it's actually touching/rubbing, then if you've ever heard it rubbing, wherever it's been touching should be pretty obvious - while you're in there looking, check out the tops of those hex head screws to see if you also need to swap out those screws with their raised heads, and you might want to take the time to have a look at how thick your brake pads are as well! Never hurts to check around in there while you've got easy access!!

Do you already know where exactly your tires are rubbing on the fender??

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the detailed explanation. I had "lift fender" in my head and didn't think about sideways at all, but now that I've read it, it makes perfect sense.

Yes, I hear it only occasionally, and only on hard cornering. The rub mark on the tire is about 1" down the side, so it does make sense that I need to move the fender horizontally. I'm running 18 psi all around.

I don't know why the idea of moving it sideways wasn't clicking with me until now!

I definitely need to "move the fender closer to the body of the spyder" as you said. Now to figure out whether I need washers on the inner, outer, or both sides of the strut connection. :-)

[Peter Aawen]

....

I definitely need to "move the fender closer to the body of the spyder" as you said. Now to figure out whether I need washers on the inner, outer, or both sides of the strut connection. :-)

That's an easy one to sort!

See those four bolts labelled NEW in the pic you posted up in your post #26?? Just put a washer or two under EACH of those, making sure that you put them on the MOUNTING side of the strut base so that they actually DO 'move the fenders closer to the body', and don't just put them under the heads of your (NEW & possibly longer?? ) bolts the first time around! Altho I do know people who live by the saying "We do things Nice, cos we always do them Twice!"

[troop]

And ... Those M8 fender strut bolts are TIGHT ! They use a LOT of yellow loctite on those bolts. My best tip? Loosen/tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen to break off some of the yellow loctite. Have all four (per fender) bolts loosened up but not off. Put on a couple M8 stainless washers per bolt, one bolt at a time. This will help keep your fender struts aligned, and lessen chance of cross threading. On my S2S, I'll also likely run the bolts thru a M8 die to clean them up before reinstall.

[Two2Three]

Finally got the bolts (5mm longer than stock) and washers and fixed it. Seems to work perfectly with two per bolt.

In my case it wasn’t hard to loosen the stock bolts at all — getting two washers slipped into place on a couple of them was worthy of a few choice words though.

[troop]

Finally got the bolts (5mm longer than stock) and washers and fixed it. Seems to work perfectly with two per bolt.

In my case it wasn’t hard to loosen the stock bolts at all — getting two washers slipped into place on a couple of them was worthy of a few choice words though.

Just finished mine this AM. Couple choice words, long bent needle nose pliers and a couple extra washers on hand for droppage helped

[3Willie]

I just installed a set of Vredstein Quatrac 165-60r 15 tires and the tire is rubbing on the inside of the left fender. Looks like the right side has about 1/2 inch more clearance room on the tire and it does not rub. Wondering if I could just bend the fender support away from the tire by using a hammer and block of wood and tapping the support to bend it inward. I have not pulled the bolts out to shim, but looks like it will likely take at least 3 washers to give decent clearance. Not sure if there is enough bolt length to shim very far. Suggestions appreciated.

[Knizar]

Shim or size down, I would not try BENDING!

[3Willie]

Replaced the tires with the same size tires that were on it and tire pressure is at 18. Will take the fender loose tomorrow and see if there is any wiggle room for adjusting, then shim as needed. I bought the bike from an older friend that may well have bumped something along the way. By the time he quit riding, his vision and coordination had gone downhill quite a bit and he did bump into things. Great guy and sadly has now passed away.

Bending is always a little dicey, so understand the concern. The other fender has good clearance all the way around the tire, so was surprised that the left side rubbed.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Just found this thread when searching for the same issue. I put Vredestein Quatrac 165/60R15s on the front a few weeks ago, and when going through a roundabout with a bit o' spirit, I heard it rubbing on the right side. Stopped as soon as I exited.

So just thought I'd mention it as another instance of it happening, this time on a stock 2022 RTL.

Guess I'll see about adding some washers to mine as well.

I found that exact tire and reported about it here a few years ago ..... The TIRE nor the SIZE isn't the Problem , something is not quite right with Fender mounting brackets ..... 100's and 100's of members here are using that Exact same tire on RT's and F-3's with NO issues...... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Replaced the tires with the same size tires that were on it and tire pressure is at 18. Will take the fender loose tomorrow and see if there is any wiggle room for adjusting, then shim as needed. I bought the bike from an older friend that may well have bumped something along the way. By the time he quit riding, his vision and coordination had gone downhill quite a bit and he did bump into things. Great guy and sadly has now passed away.

Bending is always a little dicey, so understand the concern. The other fender has good clearance all the way around the tire, so was surprised that the left side rubbed.

I would NOT bend the brackets, the chances of you getting it correct are slim at best, also my experience with an 08 bracket was ...it was hollow, ...... use a washer or two to solve this issue ....Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just installed a set of Vredstein Quatrac 165-60r 15 tires and the tire is rubbing on the inside of the left fender. Looks like the right side has about 1/2 inch more clearance room on the tire and it does not rub. Wondering if I could just bend the fender support away from the tire by using a hammer and block of wood and tapping the support to bend it inward. I have not pulled the bolts out to shim, but looks like it will likely take at least 3 washers to give decent clearance. Not sure if there is enough bolt length to shim very far. Suggestions appreciated.

See post #36 ....Mike

[3Willie]

Tire rubbing problem solved after adding 3 washers on the rear fender brackets and two on the front ones. Put in longer bolts to make sure I still have enough bolts to keep the fender rigid. Will test drive soon, but no rubbing after washers were added. Pretty hard to understand how they were that much off compared to the other side of the bike. Looking forward to checking out the Vredestein tires! Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Tire rubbing problem solved after adding 3 washers on the rear fender brackets and two on the front ones. Put in longer bolts to make sure I still have enough bolts to keep the fender rigid. Will test drive soon, but no rubbing after washers were added. Pretty hard to understand how they were that much off compared to the other side of the bike. Looking forward to checking out the Vredestein tires! Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments!

IMHO It was a manufacturing defect .... however I doubt the dealer would replace it .... Mike

[CloverHillCrawler]

I would NOT bend the brackets, the chances of you getting it correct are slim at best, also my experience with an 08 bracket was ...it was hollow, ...... use a washer or two to solve this issue ....Mike

The fender brackets are made of a pretty soft metal when I hit that deer at 1:00 am back last may while sintering my new brakes, I had not only broken plastic to clear from the tire, the bracket was bent over the tire and rubbing when I tried to move it.

I was able to clear the fender bracket from the tire just by using my hands to bend it back to get me home and order the parts for the new fender.

IMG_20230401_174348980.jpg

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The fender brackets are made of a pretty soft metal when I hit that deer at 1:00 am back last may while sintering my new brakes, I had not only broken plastic to clear from the tire, the bracket was bent over the tire and rubbing when I tried to move it.

I was able to clear the fender bracket from the tire just by using my hands to bend it back to get me home and order the parts for the new fender.

IMG_20230401_174348980.jpg

My point was .... if you bend the bracket and go too far you have to bend it back ... and if that is too much ... you bend it again to fix it etc. etc etc. ..... get my drift here .... you can only bend and re-bend to the point where the metal is so weakened it snaps .... good luck ....Mike

[3Willie]

After reading some comments, I have to totally agree on using shims, not
bending a hollow tube bracket. Shims in place and quite a bit of clearance. Test drove today and all is well. Only have about 15 miles on them, but can already tell a huge difference over the OEM tires. The Vredestein tires are very smooth and corner well.