Running cold and o2 modifier question

**MizMuffet** · 10-02-2009, 10:58 AM

I have to let my Spyder warm up a few minutes before I can take off. Otherwise, when I turn the throttle, it misses. Hubs thinks that shouldn't happen on a fuel injected v-twin engine. Our Harley's (and every other bike we've owned) start and go instantly.

Reading and researching on this board, I see it's common to many. I've also seen mention of Ken's o2 modifier as something that can help this? I looked at Evoluzione's site, and there's not much info there as to what it is or does. (Ken, if you're reading, you really could use more info on ALL your products on your pages, IMHO - features and benefits type of stuff. people like me with no mechanical know-how don't take any meaning from "modifies the signal sent to the ecu via the o2 sensor line". That doesn't tell me or sell me anything... but anywho....)

Can someone explain to me in laymen talk what the o2 modifer does? Will it help my bike run better when cold? What else does it do? Will gas mileage be worse? Does this mod need or cause the need for other mods?

Thanks

**smokster** · 10-02-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by MizMuffet

I have to let my Spyder warm up a few minutes before I can take off. Otherwise, when I turn the throttle, it misses. Hubs thinks that shouldn't happen on a fuel injected v-twin engine. Our Harley's (and every other bike we've owned) start and go instantly.

Reading and researching on this board, I see it's common to many. I've also seen mention of Ken's o2 modifier as something that can help this? I looked at Evoluzione's site, and there's not much info there as to what it is or does. (Ken, if you're reading, you really could use more info on ALL your products on your pages, IMHO - features and benefits type of stuff. people like me with no mechanical know-how don't take any meaning from "modifies the signal sent to the ecu via the o2 sensor line". That doesn't tell me or sell me anything... but anywho....)

Can someone explain to me in laymen talk what the o2 modifer does? Will it help my bike run better when cold? What else does it do? Will gas mileage be worse? Does this mod need or cause the need for other mods?

Thanks

With the first update, I had to take my o2 modifyer off and have not put it back on for fear off it running like $#*&. With it off it runs better .
You should always let it warm up to at least 1 bar before taking off.

**Firefly** · 10-02-2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by MizMuffet

I have to let my Spyder warm up a few minutes before I can take off. Otherwise, when I turn the throttle, it misses. Hubs thinks that shouldn't happen on a fuel injected v-twin engine. Our Harley's (and every other bike we've owned) start and go instantly.

Reading and researching on this board, I see it's common to many. I've also seen mention of Ken's o2 modifier as something that can help this? I looked at Evoluzione's site, and there's not much info there as to what it is or does. (Ken, if you're reading, you really could use more info on ALL your products on your pages, IMHO - features and benefits type of stuff. people like me with no mechanical know-how don't take any meaning from "modifies the signal sent to the ecu via the o2 sensor line". That doesn't tell me or sell me anything... but anywho....)

Can someone explain to me in laymen talk what the o2 modifer does? Will it help my bike run better when cold? What else does it do? Will gas mileage be worse? Does this mod need or cause the need for other mods?

Thanks

The 02 mod will not help that situation. If you're running his fuel pressure mod (also maybe a juice box would do the same) - you technically *can* take right off without the hesitation and sputter -- but I strongly do NOT recommend you do this.

The Rotax wants to warm up to 1-2 bars before you take off. This ensures good lubrication and proper running temp. This is also a dry-sump system - which may contribute to this requirement.

You just need to get used to letting it warm up to 1-2 bars as the manual states.

**NancysToy** · 10-02-2009, 01:39 PM

The Spyder does not have a cold start enrichment circuit, per se, like some fuel injected bikes. It will likely stumble until it warms up. Ours certainly does. My fuel injected BMW does the same if I don't use the manual enrichment lever. No different than a carbureted bike without chokes. If your Spyder treats you well in every other way, I would warm it up before I would modify it.

**MizMuffet** · 10-02-2009, 02:16 PM

It's just that I do a lot of group rides with a HOG chapter, and I already feel looked down upon a bit because I'm no longer on a Harley plus no longer on 2 wheels.
But when it's KSU time, they jump on and go. And I either have to warm up, or have my bike run ****ty. Either one feeds their feelings of superiority.

But I have no problems with giving it a couple minutes to warm up, if that's what it needs. I agree, that's better, easier, cheaper than a mod.

**Spyder Bitten Duo** · 10-02-2009, 02:57 PM

Personaly if the people I rode with made me feel looked down on because of my ride I would find other people to ride with, but that's just me

Ron

**smokster** · 10-02-2009, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by NancysToy

The Spyder does not have a cold start enrichment circuit, per se, like some fuel injected bikes. It will likely stumble until it warms up. Ours certainly does. My fuel injected BMW does the same if I don't use the manual enrichment lever. No different than a carbureted bike without chokes. If your Spyder treats you well in every other way, I would warm it up before I would modify it.

Treat it like a woman

**NancysToy** · 10-02-2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by HDXBONES

The Spyder ECU runs in an open loop mode (fixed map-no o2 input) until the engine reaches normal operating temperature. The o2 modifier will NOT make a difference on a cold start......Nurse the throttle on a cold take-off, or allow for a brief warm-up......

Thanks for the input HDX. You know I am lost with these new-fangled devices.

Will the Juicebox help this situation? BTW, easier to nurse a manual than an SE5.

Originally Posted by Spyder Bitten Duo

Personaly if the people I rode with made me feel looked down on because of my ride I would find other people to ride with, but that's just me

Ron

I suspect I would do the same. I'm not a fan of bike snobs. On the other hand, I am trying to figure how to break the news of my forthcoming RT-S to my BMW club. I am a bit of a traitor.

**Firefly** · 10-03-2009, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by MizMuffet

It's just that I do a lot of group rides with a HOG chapter, and I already feel looked down upon a bit because I'm no longer on a Harley plus no longer on 2 wheels.
But when it's KSU time, they jump on and go. And I either have to warm up, or have my bike run ****ty. Either one feeds their feelings of superiority.

But I have no problems with giving it a couple minutes to warm up, if that's what it needs. I agree, that's better, easier, cheaper than a mod.

I would tell them you're giving them a head start to make things fair!

Considering you can probably outrun most of the hogs you ride with --- you have nothing to feel bad about.

After you park the bike at a meet-- especially in warm weather--- it doesn't take long at all to warm it up. The warm up also gets things nice and lubed up before any load is placed on the engine.

Taking off a bit sooner is hardly worth putting extra wear on an engine IMO.

The Evoluzione Fuel Pressure Mod does take care of this problem for the most part--- but it will cost you $300 because you have to go with the race intake system--- and it's LOUD--- not to mention if you run the fuel pressure high enough to help that problem---- your MPG will suck--- ask me how I know!

I think I'd find some new riding friends if they're giving you guff about the Spyder!

**BLACK WIDOW** · 10-03-2009, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I would tell them you're giving them a head start to make things fair!

Considering you can probably outrun most of the hogs you ride with --- you have nothing to feel bad about.

After you park the bike at a meet-- especially in warm weather--- it doesn't take long at all to warm it up. The warm up also gets things nice and lubed up before any load is placed on the engine.

Taking off a bit sooner is hardly worth putting extra wear on an engine IMO.

The Evoluzione Fuel Pressure Mod does take care of this problem for the most part--- but it will cost you $300 because you have to go with the race intake system--- and it's LOUD--- not to mention if you run the fuel pressure high enough to help that problem---- your MPG will suck--- ask me how I know!

I think I'd find some new riding friends if they're giving you guff about the Spyder!

Michael

**Latemarch** · 10-03-2009, 09:01 PM

I usually start the bike and then put on the helmet, jacket and gloves. It's usually had a minute or so to run.

The oil pressure is up and all surfaces should be well lubricated.

I ride slowly away and don't really get into the throttle untill I see at least 2 bars.

It doesn't run rough or stumble......maybe I just got lucky and have a good one.....but I think that the canisterectomy helped.

**Spyder#353** · 10-04-2009, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Spyder Bitten Duo

Personaly if the people I rode with made me feel looked down on because of my ride I would find other people to ride with, but that's just me

Ron

Friends shouldn't do that. HD riders are like that. I know I've been riding HD for 40 years. My friends didn't mind if I rode a Honda, Kowa or a Suski rode them be can't spell them. Other HD riders did. Since I got my Spyder I haven't ridden my FLHTC. I start it up and drive it around the block every month. Get new friends who like you and don't care what you ride. Some people can't think outside the BOX!!!

**MizMuffet** · 10-04-2009, 05:19 PM

[QUOTE]Friends shouldn't do that. HD riders are like that. I know I've been riding HD for 40 years. My friends didn't mind if I rode a Honda, Kowa or a Suski rode them be can't spell them. Other HD riders did./QUOTE]

That's what I'm meaning, too. There's 330 people in our HOG chapter. I don't personally know or am friends with all of them.

**Smylinacha** · 10-04-2009, 08:42 PM

I came off a Harley to the Spyder - I don't feel bad at all! HDX has his Harley. And we never ever rode with any Hog Chapter - and probably never ever will. We don't like group riding much and at least here, the HOG chapter people I've seen are a bunch of weekend biker wanna bee RUBS who drag their feet 1/4 mile after take off and are a bunch of dorks.

And you can tell cuz they must iron their chaps or something - neat pressed creases and all their leather is shiney brand spankin new LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**jlb** · 10-05-2009, 09:42 PM

You know it's odd what bikes different folks will make fun of. My first bike was a Suzuki savage, great bike, total workhorse, still hasn't given me a problem. But I got lots of mostly negative comments from mostly Harley riders. Then I moved on to the Qlink, a nice little 250 Chinese bike that ironically enough everybody seems to love.

I should have the spyder in less than a week.....can't wait to see the reactions to this one .

**jgwoods** · 10-06-2009, 02:26 PM

I've never been one for long warm ups and my SE5 accomodates that on these last 40 degree mornings. I start it up, idle it while I cinch my helmet and gloves and drive off easy letting the centrifugal clutch get a slow hold on it, shift at a moderate 3500 or so and by the time I am half a mile from my house I see 2 bars on the temp gauge. It never misses a beat.

I figure there's not much oil pressure at idle speed and gentle driving will get it up to temp with full oil pressure. All it takes is 30 seconds or so at idle. If yours sputters that's another matter and depending on mileage I would be looking at ignition wires or adding some injector cleaner to the tank to keep things pristine.

I see no mention in the manual of a requirement to warm it up at idle.

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