‘20 RT-L Noisy Shock and ACS Suspension Question

[Peteoz]

Hi,
I am trying to sort a very loud squeak from around the rear shock area, which my Auto Stethoscope says is coming from the actual shock….I have ordered an aftermarket and am waiting for it to arrive in a couple of weeks before I remove the panels and replace (can’t go back to the dealer as Sydney is in lockdown for the foreseeable future).

I do have a question re the ACS suspension however. My ‘16 F3-L was manual Shraeder, so I have NO experience with the auto….and YES…..the Position Sensor is bolted on

How loud should it be when I first start the RT? I.e. does it normally lift when you mount and start the RT, put it in gear and release the handbrake?….or should I hear it expelling air after I shut down the RT and dismount?
I can hear absolutely nothing when either starting up or shutting down, but I do not have a clue if this is normal, or how loud the compressor is. Sorry to be so vague….

Pete

[Jetfixer]

I have never heard any air coming out of the rear shock, but the compressor does run when started and in gear. Makes a soft whirring noise, and only runs for a few seconds. I would try loosening the bottom shock bolt, and let the lower shock rubber relax, then re-tighten. See if the squeaking stops. Since you will be replacing it soon, (as I did with an Elka Stage 2!) it's not worth the bother to try this with the top bolt also, since you need to remove the pre-muffler (cat) to reach it.

[trikermutha]

It should raise and lower depending how much you have the pressure set at. Probably feel it more when sitting on it and riding. It gets stiffer on the higher setting.

Have you tried to spray some sort of lubricate round the shock pivot area? Maybe the squeak is in that area?

You should hear the compressor kick on and off like a low rumble air compressor running. But that all depends on your setting too.

[Peter Aawen]

.....

How loud should it be when I first start the RT? I.e. does it normally lift when you mount and start the RT, put it in gear and release the handbrake?….or should I hear it expelling air after I shut down the RT and dismount?
I can hear absolutely nothing when either starting up or shutting down, but I do not have a clue if this is normal, or how loud the compressor is. Sorry to be so vague….

Pete

They're usually pretty quiet Pete. Many of the 50 y/o & older ryders that I know (who may or may not admit to having slightly less hearing than they used to! ) don't ever hear the compressors, let ab.one the much quieter release of air, but despite not hearing these things, everything is usually still there & still working! Except when it's got holes in the air bag; the systems not connected or set up properly; the height sensor &/or bracket is bent; &/or the compressor has failed thru over-use!

One of the members here was also unsure if his ACS was working properly, so he tested it of a nighttime by aiming the headlight at a wall/door 20 feet away & then with the Spyder chocked so it couldn't move, but running & in gear, loaded up the rider & pillion seats progressively while watching the light beam raise & lower on the door; then he unloaded it progressively, maybe even doing a bit of jumping up & down on the rear foot plates just to see what changed.... And it all became very obvious that everything was working as it should! You might want to give that a go, it can't hurt, and it'll probably make things a whole lot clearer.

Good Luck!

[Peteoz]

It should raise and lower depending how much you have the pressure set at. Probably feel it more when sitting on it and riding. It gets stiffer on the higher setting.
Have you tried to spray some sort of lubricate round the shock pivot area? Maybe the squeak is in that area?
You should hear the compressor kick on and off like a low rumble air compressor running. But that all depends on your setting too.

Thanks Triker. I am unaware of any user ability to change the setting on a ‘21. Maybe because if you run LED headlights out here you must have a self levelling system installed in the vehicle to prevent blinding oncoming traffic. I imagine that would be the primary aim of the ACS suspension, so allow user settings would defeat this.
Yes, I have tried silicone lubricating spray around all the shock pivot points that I can reach.

Pete

[Peteoz]

I have never heard any air coming out of the rear shock, but the compressor does run when started and in gear. Makes a soft whirring noise, and only runs for a few seconds. I would try loosening the bottom shock bolt, and let the lower shock rubber relax, then re-tighten. See if the squeaking stops. Since you will be replacing it soon, (as I did with an Elka Stage 2!) it's not worth the bother to try this with the top bolt also, since you need to remove the pre-muffler (cat) to reach it.

Thanks Jetfixer. I’ll try that trick with the bottom shock bolt. I have to wait 3 weeks for the Ikon shock delivery anyway.

So if I put my 300lbs on the RT, start it in neutral, release parking brake, foot on brake and put it in gear, I should definitely hear it working to compensate. I tried that in the past and heard nothing, but I’ll give it another go.

Pete

[Peteoz]

They're usually pretty quiet Pete. Many of the 50 y/o & older ryders that I know (who may or may not admit to having slightly less hearing than they used to! ) don't ever hear the compressors, let ab.one the much quieter release of air, but despite not hearing these things, everything is usually still there & still working! Except when it's got holes in the air bag; the systems not connected or set up properly; the height sensor &/or bracket is bent; &/or the compressor has failed thru over-use!

One of the members here was also unsure if his ACS was working properly, so he tested it of a nighttime by aiming the headlight at a wall/door 20 feet away & then with the Spyder chocked so it couldn't move, but running & in gear, loaded up the rider & pillion seats progressively while watching the light beam raise & lower on the door; then he unloaded it progressively, maybe even doing a bit of jumping up & down on the rear foot plates just to see what changed.... And it all became very obvious that everything was working as it should! You might want to give that a go, it can't hurt, and it'll probably make things a whole lot clearer.

Good Luck!

Thanks Peter. I will put my brand new “ears” in (yet another sign of aging ) and listen closely. I will also start the RT with one garage door closed in front of it and see if there is any headlight movement when I start the RT and put it in gear to compensate for the 300lbs I have put on it.

Pete

[Peteoz]

Interesting……I sat on the RT, in neutral, park brake on and started it.
Foot on brake, release park brake, into 1st, absolutely no raising or lowering of the headlight level on the garage door.
I then slid back to the rear seat, the headlight level lifted an inch on the garage door and stayed there….no adjustment.
I slid forward to the front seat, and the level dropped to the original level.
I shut the RT off and the level stayed exactly where it was.
All during this I heard no sound other than a 10 second, very faint high pitched whine when first I turned the key on, and then the sound of the motor when I started the RT.
I will investigate further, but it sounds like the ACS Suspension may not be working.

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

Interesting……
...I will investigate further, but it sounds like the ACS Suspension may not be working.

Pete

Hmm, sure does, doesn't it?!? . Well, thinking about it a bit & a little more to the point, it clearly DOESN'T sound like the ACS is working?!



Sorry, but I just hadta! She made me do it!

[Peteoz]

Hmm, sure does, doesn't it?!? . Well, thinking about it a bit & a little more to the point, it clearly DOESN'T sound like the ACS is working?!
Sorry, but I just hadta! She made me do it!

Hahaha. Sounds like I may have a “built on Friday” model, Peter. Bugger

Pete

[Mikey]

You are going in the right direction by putting a aftermarket shock on, hopefully it is set up to suspend the whole load and stray away from the air system! That whole system is good as long as all components are working as they should, but BRP still wants to use some of the same parts that have a great failure rate. A lot of us have had issues with that system and found ways around it. There is one thing I will say, if your system was not working and that bag was running out of air, you would know it, because it would be bottoming out on the frame. The stock shock isn't that strong to work on it's own!

[K80Shooter]

There is no user adjustment on the 2020-2021 RT Limited and Sea to Sky models. If you want to check your pressure there is a fitting under the right rear of the drivers seat, just remove the dust cover for access.

If you had a fobo you might be able to install it onto that port just for verification purposes. I'm not sure how big they are as I don't have them....... Yet.

Also I'm pretty much deaf so I wouldn't notice a noise unless it was loud, like my other half ...lol

[Peteoz]

There is no user adjustment on the 2020-2021 RT Limited and Sea to Sky models. If you want to check your pressure there is a fitting under the right rear of the drivers seat, just remove the dust cover for access.

If you had a fobo you might be able to install it onto that port just for verification purposes. I'm not sure how big they are as I don't have them....... Yet.

Also I'm pretty much deaf so I wouldn't notice a noise unless it was loud, like my other half ...lol

Yeah, thanks, K80. I have a spare FOBO from my F3-L. I did manually check the ACS pressure at rest and it was about 50-60 psi. The FOBO will fit, but I didn’t bother putting it on as the psi would be constantly changing……but I might pop it on to see if I notice any changes…..just another ACS functionality check

Pete

[trikermutha]

Thanks Triker. I am unaware of any user ability to change the setting on a ‘21. Maybe because if you run LED headlights out here you must have a self levelling system installed in the vehicle to prevent blinding oncoming traffic. I imagine that would be the primary aim of the ACS suspension, so allow user settings would defeat this.
Yes, I have tried silicone lubricating spray around all the shock pivot points that I can reach.

Pete

I am no way a expert on the 21 models So I am assuming they are almost the same as the older 1330's? So I maybe way off on my suggestion.

[Peteoz]

The dealer called and offered to pick up the RT to check the issues, but it’s a 10 hour round trip, plus no one can leave Sydney for at least 2 weeks due to Covid, so I’m going to remove the full side panel on the ACS side and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the shock and ACS. If nothing is obvious, the Ikon shock should be here in 2 weeks, so I’ll either ride it down or get him to pick it up then, and he can replace the stock shock with the Ikon while he is checking out the issues.

Thanks very much to all for your help and suggestions…..it’s been invaluable

Pete

[Papa103]

i have had a 2019 and a 2021, both RTL's. They have performed the same. When I ride 2 up (after riding 1 up) I will start the Spyder let it warm up. After we are both on the Spyder I will put it in gear and if I let it set and idle for a minute or 2, I will hear the compressor run and the Spyder will level out. This takes about 10 to 15 seconds. When going from 2 to 1 rider same start up sequence I will feel the Spyder drop a little and hear the air hiss out. The Spyder won't make any changes when shut off or idling in neutral. The other thing both have done a lot is when stopped at a stop sign 2 or 1 rider doesn't matter it will drop the back just enough to feel. If I just get on the Spyder and drive away I won't hear or feel anything. If your Spyder isn't setting low I would guess it's working.

[Peteoz]

Thanks for the tips, Papa. It’s good to know that the change isn’t instantaneous..

Pete

[Peteoz]

You nailed it, Papa…..thank you. I was expecting the compressor change to be virtually instantaneous. After my wife got on the back and the headlight beam lifted, the headlights lowered after a little while, and adjusted again when she got off. I could also hear the brief expelling of air. It’s the little things that you don’t know that can mislead you…….mind you, I shouldn’t have assumed that the change would be instantaneous without checking, either.

So we are back to only the shock (or something linked to it), being an issue. Great news.

Pete

[Peteoz]

I would try loosening the bottom shock bolt, and let the lower shock rubber relax, then re-tighten. See if the squeaking stops. Since you will be replacing it soon, (as I did with an Elka Stage 2!) it's not worth the bother to try this with the top bolt also, since you need to remove the pre-muffler (cat) to reach it.

Thanks Jetfixer, interesting result. I loosened the bottom nut right off, left it for 30 minutes, bounced up and down and the sound was still there, but significantly quieter (I was going to pull the bolt right out, but I just couldn’t find the sweet spot with the bike lift). I gave the area around it a dosing with silicone lubricant, tightened it all back up and it was still a lot quieter, and took it for a ride. By the time I got back, the sound was back to its normal volume. That bottom assembly certainly seems to be the source of the squeak/squeal.

Pete

[Jetfixer]

Thanks Jetfixer, interesting result. I loosened the bottom nut right off, left it for 30 minutes, bounced up and down and the sound was still there, but significantly quieter (I was going to pull the bolt right out, but I just couldn’t find the sweet spot with the bike lift). I gave the area around it a dosing with silicone lubricant, tightened it all back up and it was still a lot quieter, and took it for a ride. By the time I got back, the sound was back to its normal volume. That bottom assembly certainly seems to be the source of the squeak/squeal.

Pete

Good troubleshooting! From those results, I would suspect the squeak is from the rubber bushing pressed into the lower lug of the shock itself. If you were not already planning to replace it, I would suggest removing the shock and getting some lube between the lug and the bushing. Plan on having some severe frustration changing out the rear shock due to having to remove the pre-muffler and dealing with that upper exhaust spring!

[Peteoz]

Plan on having some severe frustration changing out the rear shock due to having to remove the pre-muffler and dealing with that upper exhaust spring!

Hmmmmmm. I don’t need any more frustration/aggravation, Jetfixer , and my knees aren’t what they were. Since it looks like my new shock won’t be here before Sydney’s Covid isolation ends, and since the pre muffler has to be removed anyway, I might just order an Akrapovic to be delivered to the Sydney dealer, take the shock down to him and let him do the full shock and muffler replacement. It won’t cost me anything and it will be a good, 1000km, shakedown trip…….although much of it is on freeways…… He’ll get a new RT shock to keep in stock, too. Thanks again.

Pete