Nice 91 octane Ride

**krb1945** · 08-23-2009, 08:23 AM

Cylinder cleaning agents have been all but eliminated in all gasoline. These agents keep most of the soot and carbon lumps from forming in the cylinders. If carbon does form in the cylinders then it glows like embers and ignites the fuel as it is entering the cylinder, ie. surging and sputtering.

You can help with this problem by using valvetech carbon guard in your gas. Initially start with 1 oz per five to six gallons. After a couple of tanks the cylinders and heads will be cleaned up then you can reduce it to about .6 of an oz per five gallons.

I found this out the hardway... a 13,000 dollar boat engine destroyed because of carbon causing spitting and sputtering.

Many thanks to the "tree huggers" for forcing the gasoline industry remove the very chemical that makes all gasoline engines run better and run cleaner. Folks... they, "the tree huggers" ain't got it right yet. We use to have lead fumes which is harmful but now the exhaust we breathe when sitting at a redlight turns into sulphuric acid when mixed with moisture. So how can that be the answer? It is according to them. By the way remember you have lots of moisture in your throat, nose and mouth.

**baldev** · 08-23-2009, 08:27 AM

"and higher octane gas sits around longer because it doesn't sell as well as regular"

Only if someone orders the same amount of premium. Usually I ordered only about 1500 gals of premium every "other" day compared to 7500 of reg and mid. Therefore premium did not sit around any longer than necessary.

I see no diff using either 87 or 93.

**BLACK WIDOW** · 08-23-2009, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by baldev

"
I see no diff using either 87 or 93.

I've heard stories that at some establishments there isn't.

But you know that one can hear almost anything.

Michael

**Firefly** · 08-23-2009, 10:41 AM

While I'm pretty sure you're not going to damage the rotax by running higher octane--- I've read that running it in some engines can actually cause damage.

I'll try a weeks worth of it this week--- and maybe I'll be joining the 'high octane' club --- but I'm not holding my breath (always a skeptic).

**BLACK WIDOW** · 08-23-2009, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

While I'm pretty sure you're not going to damage the rotax by running higher octane--- I've read that running it in some engines can actually cause damage.

I'll try a weeks worth of it this week--- and maybe I'll be joining the 'high octane' club --- but I'm not holding my breath (always a skeptic).

Try to find some that does not contain Ethanol and I think you'll feel the difference.

Michael

**BajaRon** · 08-23-2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by BLACK WIDOW

Try to find some that does not contain Ethanol and I think you'll feel the difference.

Michael

That is a pretty good trick these days. Ethanol costs us about 10% in fuel mileage. Not sure what that power loss is but I suspect about the same.

Sure good to know the tree huggers are looking out for our best interests here.....Right?

**bone crusher** · 08-23-2009, 07:28 PM

I think gas stations in MD use 10% ethanol.

Regardless, I haven't had a problem with my Spyder and octane level. I've run all three octanes and never really felt a difference. No point in paying extra money for no gains.

Widow, if your bike only runs well on premium, there might be another problem as the bike shouldn't need higher octane to run normally.

This is an interesting situation you have...as far as ethanol goes, I don't like the stuff!

**BLACK WIDOW** · 08-23-2009, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by bone crusher

I think gas stations in MD use 10% ethanol.

Regardless, I haven't had a problem with my Spyder and octane level. I've run all three octanes and never really felt a difference. No point in paying extra money for no gains.

Widow, if your bike only runs well on premium, there might be another problem as the bike shouldn't need higher octane to run normally.

This is an interesting situation you have...as far as ethanol goes, I don't like the stuff!

Didn't mean to imply that my spyder doesn't run ok on 86 octane, it just runs a whole lot better on 91. It runs enough better that I will certainly pay the difference in the price. We can still get real gasoline ( no alcohol) here in Oklahoma so that is what I use and I will continue as long as it's available.

Michael

**prodrag69** · 08-23-2009, 09:53 PM

that also depends on what you got done to your spyder.... my spyder detonates with 87 i hafe to run 93 or add octane buster to make up the diff.

**BajaRon** · 08-23-2009, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by prodrag69

that also depends on what you got done to your spyder.... my spyder detonates with 87 i hafe to run 93 or add octane buster to make up the diff.

What have you done that makes it not run on regular fuel?

**prodrag69** · 08-23-2009, 10:03 PM

I got the duel two brothers exhaust and the juice box with the race air intake and some other small tricks..... im taking to afew people in regards to custom cams for the spyders and Aerocharger 2.0 Turbocharger by HiPerformance about tourbo charging a spyder

theres just alot of B.S. that we hafe to work on first

**Firefly** · 08-23-2009, 10:58 PM

I think the individual mods are a good thing to look at pertaining to octane use. I filled up with 93 today--- and will run a few weeks on it to see if I notice any difference. Since my sputtering was intermittent - it's hard to tell what the fix will be. Not sure if I've had as much sputtering since I pulled the evap can. Going to keep an eye on it.

Just gonna keep an eye on it....

**prodrag69** · 08-23-2009, 11:02 PM

what do you have done to your spyder firefly

**3wheeldemon** · 08-23-2009, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

... I filled up with 93 today--- and will run a few weeks on it to see if I notice any difference...

We converted the last of the Mohicans!!!

3WD

**Firefly** · 08-24-2009, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by 3wheeldemon

We converted the last of the Mohicans!!!

3WD

Nooooooo---- not converted --- just willing to put it to the test...... don't mind being proven wrong at all---- it's bound to happen SOMETIME-

__________

I'm running: Evoluzione Race air intake system with custom airbox and two cold air intake vents, Fuel pressure mod @ 63 psi, O2 Mod and hindle pipe.

**QuadManiac** · 08-24-2009, 12:43 AM

Air/fuel ratio also significantly affects pre-detonation, so if you're 'juiced' a little lean, you are likely to have pre-det with the appropriate knock sensor reduction in timing advance and concomitant performance. Higher octane in this case should help overcome the pre-det and return the lost performance.

**Capt John** · 08-24-2009, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by BLACK WIDOW

I waited today until the temp was about 90 degrees so I could eliminate the cool morning temperatures being the reason for the Spyders better performance, and not the 91 octane fuel I'm running. Now I have absolutely no doubt in my simple mind that the 91 octane performs much better in my Spyder than 87 octane. The owners manual states 87 octane or higher--The or higher is what I'm going to run. I think, if the ECU has detonation sensors and can adjust the engine timing to eliminate knocking, then it must retard the timing a significant amount to allow a engine with 10.8:1 compression ratio to run on 87 octane fuel; and there goes your performance.IMHO

Michael

Do you still have your JB at the same settings or have you adjusted it while using the higher octane?

**BLACK WIDOW** · 08-24-2009, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Capt John

Do you still have your JB at the same settings or have you adjusted it while using the higher octane?

I think I have made some minor adjustments since we last talked (not sure). Here are the ones I am currently running.

Mode#1--Not used
Mode#2--4.5
Mode#3--6
Mode#4--6
Mode#5--2
Mode#6--2

I keep playing with the thing but I seem to always get back to, or at least close to, these settings.

Michael

**BLACK WIDOW** · 08-24-2009, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I think the individual mods are a good thing to look at pertaining to octane use. I filled up with 93 today--- and will run a few weeks on it to see if I notice any difference. Since my sputtering was intermittent - it's hard to tell what the fix will be. Not sure if I've had as much sputtering since I pulled the evap can. Going to keep an eye on it.

Just gonna keep an eye on it....

Don't you think that a "Sputtering" engine usually indicates a overly rich condition (to much fuel or not enough air). It has been my experience that if running lean the engine will hesitate, cough, and surge; but not necessarily sputter. (or at least based on my defination of a sputter) What is your opinion? If you are running rich it will regardless of the octane.

Michael

**Firefly** · 08-24-2009, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by BLACK WIDOW

Don't you think that a "Sputtering" engine usually indicates a overly rich condition (to much fuel or not enough air). It has been my experience that if running lean the engine will hesitate, cough, and surge; but not necessarily sputter. (or at least based on my defination of a sputter) What is your opinion? If you are running rich it will regardless of the octane.

Michael

Guess I'm just going to have to check the plugs after a ride and see what they look like.......

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