ATGATT on Spyder = PTGATT?

[VStarRider]

Thanks for all of the replies. I would now like to ask you about how often you change your oil, what oil you use, what tires you use, and who you are EDIT POST .

Kidding.

When I get on the Spyder, I wear most of the gear I wear on my Wing - honestly, the only thing missing is the armored jacket. Instead, I wear a TekVest. That will protect my ribs and organs from a severe impact, front or rear. The only thing exposed are elbows and wrists.

Good point made that a slide is not isolated to just a two-wheeled spill, low or high side. If you get thrown from a Spyder, you will likely grease the pavement for a little bit.

[Northofthesix]

All the Gear. ALL the time.

I went down on a Yamaha 1300 many years ago in a light drizzle, doing about 35mph, 6 blocks from my house ... I had only owned the bike a week and was also a fairly inexperienced rider... bike hit some oil on the ties at a railway crossing and slid out from under me. I was fully geared ... my jacket and chaps were write offs (as was the bike) and my helmet had spider web cracks on the inside... 4 cracked ribs, a cracked shoulder and a concussion, but I always imagine what it would have been like if my skull had cracked like the helmet, or my skin sanded off like the leather on my jacket. Always fully geared up every ride since.

Last summer, I was riding my Yamaha Venture with buddies through Newfoundland when we came to a gorgeous harbour and stopped to take pics. Stopped and parked the bike, took gloves off so I could dig my camera out of my coat pocket and started to get off the bike; my foot caught on the seat and the bike came tumbling over. I jumped out of the way and landed hands first in sharp crushed rock of the harbourfront. Ripped both palms wide open. 300 miles from the nearest hospital, which I drove to the next day for treatment and a tetanus shot. The result was me selling the Venture and buying my RT, reasoning even I would have a hard time pulling it over on me when I park!!

ALL THE GEAR, ALL THE TIME

[SportsterDoc]

I went on a 20 mile errand for my wife, this afternoon.
Not wanting to switch to a long sleeve T shirt, I applied sun screen to my arms and rode with short sleeve T. A long sleeve T would have been cooler!

Did use earplugs, under my helmet and wore gloves.
Wranglers and boots, ALWAYS! (unless my wife can find her photo of me wheelieing an enduro, wearing shorts, circa 1973)

109 F on patio, when I returned.

Will wait for flak to clear before posting further.

[MONK]

...I would have a hard time pulling it over on me when I park!!

If your Spyder falls over in a parking lot, you're NOT picking it back up without help.

I don't ride off my property w/o a helmet on. I'm a 99.99% ATGATT. Every once in a while, I'll trade off a jacket for a leather vest (which will do absolutely NOTHING for protection but it makes me FEEL safer than a t-shirt only). I'm rapidly running out of spending money (and I still need Tri Axis bars and a sway bar) but I'm still on the lookout for a think armored mesh jacket for those really HOT and humid days. If I'm miserable, either I won't ride or I won't be at 100%. No sense in that.

As others have said, if someone chooses to wear shorts and nothing else, so be it. Don't complain to me when you have an unintended dismount and hurt like heck.

HAGO!

[johnsimion]

We're discussing Spyder crashes. Have you had any?

In my 5 years on this forum, I'm aware of only one reported incident where a Spyder Ryder suffered fatal injuries and that was from not wearing a helmet.

We just had a fatal Spyder accident here in Las Vegas this past Memorial Day. The ryder ran a red light and was t-boned. I don't know whether he was geared up or not but when you see the remains of the Spyder, I don't think an Ironman suit would have been enough to save his life.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/breaki...stern-beltway/

[UtahPete]

We just had a fatal Spyder accident here in Las Vegas this past Memorial Day. The ryder ran a red light and was t-boned. I don't know whether he was geared up or not but when you see the remains of the Spyder, I don't think an Ironman suit would have been enough to save his life.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/breaki...stern-beltway/

Thanks, John. That's exactly my point.

[wyliec]

Thanks for all of the replies. I would now like to ask you about how often you change your oil, what oil you use, what tires you use, and who you are EDIT POST .

Kidding.

When I get on the Spyder, I wear most of the gear I wear on my Wing - honestly, the only thing missing is the armored jacket. Instead, I wear a TekVest. That will protect my ribs and organs from a severe impact, front or rear. The only thing exposed are elbows and wrists.

Good point made that a slide is not isolated to just a two-wheeled spill, low or high side. If you get thrown from a Spyder, you will likely grease the pavement for a little bit.

If you should ever see a new topic, which has never been covered before, PM me. I like it. You have a sense of humor.

[SportsterDoc]

My long sleeve T shirt riding is not a criticism of armored jackets.
I owned and used 4 armored jackets over past 3 years.

I always wear gloves. When operating Cycle Tuning Unlimited in 70s-80s, I went around the block on an enduro, to check result of timing advance. Do not recall if mine or customers.

We had a companion dog for our golden shepherd-sweet, but not overly smart.
As I returned, she ran out of garage to meet me. I grabbed a fist full of front brake to avoid hitting her and the front washed out.
Missed her, but palm of left hand took some time to heal.

Always gloves, thereafter.

Challenges for wearing armored jacket include:
1. Heat. For example coming down from pleasant temps on Mt Charleston to 116 F at 3000 feet
2. What to do with the jacket (naked bike) parked in remote location for hiking. The “adventure” jacket I had for the XT250 was HEAVY.

The potential for a low side on sand/gravel on two wheels is mitigated with 3 wheels...especially Y configuration.

Yes, highsiding may be more of an issue, although it feels that the rear could spin out...and I have not pushed it.

Unlikely that armor would do much in a head-on:

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...zi#post5515558

I text photos to my wife, so she knows where to collect my body (her words).

[NoahMercy]

As with much of life, each individual will accept as much risk as he is willing, but environment can play a huge role in deciding how much gear to wear. I live in an area with few people, a strikingly low number of motorcycle fatalities, and ride predominately in rural areas with excellent visibility. I never ride impaired or while taking any medication (even OTC) that may affect my perception or reaction time, I don't ride tired, and I go speeds appropriate for conditions (wet, glare, dusk, dark, road surface, etc.). I can go fifty miles on back roads to the next city and encounter only one traffic light and one stop sign, or go 35 miles via Interstate, and only have one stop sign at the bottom of the exit ramp. The chances against an encounter with an automobile are astronomical, and the speeds involved (posted 70 MPH on highways and 75-80 on Interstates) means that no amount of gear is likely to keep me from serious injury or death if I came off the bike. So I could justify wearing minimal gear, as I have mitigated the cause of most bike crashes and gear is unlikely to make much of a difference anyway. BUT, I wear boots, ballistic nylon chaps over jeans, leather gloves, leather vest (at a minimum...a heavy leather riding jacket when it isn't too hot), and helmet 99% of the time. Why? Deer or livestock may step out and I may have time to slow down before hitting them or going off the road and wrecking. The few miles of low-speed driving where the gear can make the difference between vegetablehood or just a concussion if a texting cager smacks me. And if you've ever had a rock tossed off a car's tire at 80 MPH bounce off your noggin, you know it is no little thing! I will, however, never shame those who choose to accept more risk than I, although expect a little derision if you are shirtless with only shorts and flip-flops...that's just ign'ant!

[SportsterDoc]

Althougn I dropped my CL350 in rain, twice, in early 70s, I have only crashed twice:

1963 - I was inexperienced, a big rig turned left in front of me without signaling, distracted by engine trouble. I locked up rear and bounced of a tire. T shirt, jeans, no helmet. Not a scratch, bruise, nor abrasion, but a spinal injury. Repaired bike, but parents objected to me riding while in a body cast, so it was sold.

1981 - Lunch time cruise. 3 lanes of traffic, each direction. In middle lane, slowly passing full size van. Compact car pulled in front of van, realized van would hit him, so he pulled into my lane. A fistful of front brake lost speed, but still center-punched rear bumper. Caved in front forks (was able to ride back to shop), went over handlebars, but landed on feet in street. Sprained wrist, scuffed knee, took leather off toe of boot. T shirt, jeans, no helmet. Sold to a co-worker.

Since then, I dropped the XLH883 on an LA fire road, the XT250 3 times in Spring Mountains and Sheep Mountains, at low speed, solo, remote locations, but no damage, pride excluded.

[johnsimion]

Thanks, John. That's exactly my point.

That's interesting because I thought your point was something like, "I don't need ATGATT, I only need a helmet because WTF, I'm going to die in a crash anyway." IMO all that accident proves is that (a) yes, there have been fatal Spyder crashes, and (b) sometimes fatality is unavoidable no matter what you do. In this case, we don't even know if he was wearing a helmet, let alone ATGATT. I do not see how this proves that we don't need ATGATT.

It's true you can't protect yourself against everything. After all, we now have seatbelts, dozens of airbags, automatic braking, blind spot detection, etc. etc. in our cars and we still have fatal accidents. But just because you **can** have a fatal accident even with all the protection doesn't make ATGATT a bad idea. The gear still improves the odds of survival if you aren't running red lights at high speed intersections. I don't know the exact speeds involved in the fatal accident, but we'll assume it was 50 mph because there are so many people speeding through green lights at intersections here at that speed (typically 45 mph speed limit). OK, at 50 mph this became fatal when the Ryder ran the red light. But what if the other driver had been going 20 mph? Would the ATGATT have prevented death and/or injuries? We can't say, but we can say that if the Ryder had been thrown off by being hit at 20 mph he might have landed on his elbows, knees, shoulders, etc. and had the armor absorb some of the blow AND that might have saved his life. Maybe it wouldn't but the odds are better.

I can also say that armor is NOT just for sliding with a great deal of confidence. All the armor I have is at least 1/2" thick and heavy foam. This is for impact protection: "The purpose of motorcycle armor is simple: to protect a rider against impacts. Some motorcycle armor will also yield substantial protection against abrasion, but the goal with motorcycle armor is to absorb and dissipate any impact force directed at you so that the least amount of force is transferred to your body." https://www.mcgearhub.com/best-motor...%20your%20body.

If the only purpose of my armor was to protect in a slide, it would be made out of Teflon and there would be no need for foam padding. Furthermore, the manufacturer of my back protector describes it as "An advanced, patented polymer, CE-rated D3O impact protectors are the latest advancement in protective armor. D3O® impact protectors utilize intelligent molecules that lock together on impact. Because of this, the impact protector can be made thinner and lighter, making a jacket more comfortable and easier to wear. However, this decreased size does not come at the expense of impact protection.

Will my armor be effective in protecting me against impacts? Maybe not, but I like the odds better.

[Arion]

This is another opinion based on a person's belief system, value system and risk tolerance. Which is fine, I encourage everyone to do what is right for them. But, what the OP is asking is whether or not the old dictum 'dress for the slide, not the ride' is just as valid for Spyders as it is two-wheelers.

I and several others, maintain that, based on observable statistics, laws of physics, limitations on 'protective gear', and reasonable deductions, the risk of road rash from a Spyder mishap is NOT worth the hassle, expense, discomfort of FULL protective gear ALL the time (ATGATT).

So far, nobody has disputed the FACTS, as I understand them, which are that NOBODY on this forum has reported an instance where ATGATT has saved them from incurring severe injury in a Spyder crash.

Except for the helmet, protective gear is intended to protect the SKIN from abrasion and minor impact injury, not protect the musculoskeletal system from injury in the instance of severe impact.

Your explanation that protective gear is not worth the hassle, expense or discomfort succinctly explains your position; it's one that I will respect as much as those who believe protective gear is worth the hassle, expense and possible discomfort. I wish you continued safe, enjoyable and accident free riding.

[AVBIZ]

In year 3 of using an Alpinestars airbag vest that I pivot between a winter and mesh compatible jackets. 3 years ago it was stupid expensive- $1200 for the vest and approx $600 for each jacket. I’ll probably keep using the system for at least another year before buying the 2nd generation vests that are now on the market. Spreading the expense over 4 years makes it tolerable especially when you consider the level of protection your getting. Just looked on Revzilla and an airbag vest can be had for as little as $299- unheard of 3 years ago. Just picked up a pair of Klim Fifty1 riding jeans with D30 and Kevlar protection- very comfortable.

[Paulie]

No spyder yet, but coming from two wheels adventure bike.

I have a winter/fall and summer Helite airbag jacket and a bunch of other armored gear (pants, gloves, boots). Went down once with it on the bike (in a parking lot of all places) and aside from looking like a dumbass with an inflated vest, it was an amazing test of the product. I plan to ride with that gear on the Spyder. For me, it’s the above t-boned story or being rear ended that gives me pause. It’s an easier decision for me since I own the gear already though.

Just my 2 cents.

[Wahrsuul]

I've noticed my tendency to not wear my mesh pants during the summer on the Spyder. In the winter I need the wind protection of the over pants. I've ridden around the neighborhood - 25mph - with t-shirt and jeans, but that's about it. Otherwise I have a full face helmet and jacket. Though realizing that I'm more likely to end up with my chest, hips or thighs slamming into the bars, I wonder how much good it'll do. Most of the armor is on the elbows/shoulders. Maybe I'd be better off wearing off road armor - chest protector and the like.

[honsfun]

My 2 cents! When i was 18 years old and rode a 48 pan head i was indestructable Tee shirt and Flip flops good to go. I fell down, i got up and kept going. Quit riding, raised a family, and in 2003 45 years later went back to riding. I realized the nature of riding had changed, more cars,higher speed limits etc. I needed to get home to my family after taking that sunday ride, so enter riding gear. I researched what i thought was the best gear for me. Nolan helmet, motocycle boots and Motoport Kevlar mesh jacket and over pants. Fast forward to Oct/2018. Picture perfect day 2 lane country road, Honda St1300,Whoops down i go sliding, rolling over, face shield on the blacktop 150 ft later enter the hospital 2 broken wrists and a broken ankle. The doctors were amazed as to the great job my gear had done as i was not even scratched. no rash or bruising and inspected my riding gear . I don't know if better gloves would have prevented the broken wrists but i am still riding with the same Motoport Jacket and Mesh pants. Of course now on a Spyder F3. ATGATT

[billythekidd]

Hi Pete,

To answer your ? No------ not this time. There have been other times I thank my luck stars that I had gear on. Coming up Mt Rose hyw and seeing the luminescent deer eyes. Didn't hit it but did have to change my shorts so to speak. Far to many other times when distracted drivers ( cell phones, eating, smoking something, looking somewhere other than ahead, ect,ect.) " Oh I did't see you" Really--- how many HUNDREDS of ryders on this site have heard those words.
The OP has every right to wear what he wants, but not me or my wife will ride unprepared for our rides. Going to do Pikes Peak this summer---- would you ride that road without your gear????

Lew L

To each their own... I have ridden to the top op Pikes peak on my Goldwing in shorts and sandals... brought a coat in case it was really cold up there. I wear a helmet sometimes... even in my Slingshot sometimes... Mostly just for the comfort of no stinging water in the face and communication with friends. I have friends who have hit deer in the mountains and not even gone down... others not so lucky. I crashed in Roswell, NM in a sand storm (sand so thick you could not see the dash on the bike) but only at about 10 mph.. a truck stopped in the left lane in front of me and I never knew he was there until I hit him (no injuries and only a helmet on). I was afraid to stop for fear of someone rear ending me.

Life is funny... one can do all the right things with all the right gear and still bite it... while another does all the wrong things with no gear and is ok...
C'est La Vie...

[r!ot]

ATGATT 4 me