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Very Active Member
F-3 front sprocket failure
Has this ceased to be an issue on the 2017's??? Shout out to Ann Meyer; has this been any issue for you??
Al in Kazoo
All the great movements in the world began with a cup of coffee!
2018 F3-T
My mods: Can am Trailer hitch, USB and 12 volt power outlets, Gustason windshield, Bead rider seat cushion, battery harness for electric gear and battery tender, Time out trailer.
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Very Active Member
there is an ongoing thread on this in the F3 section which is specific to the F3, rather than this section
look here:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...rocket-Failure
2017 F3, SM6-basic black, plain and simple
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I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case. My dealer said that BRP was no longer replacing them just because of the red dust, they have to fail first.
My Spyder is a manual and I understand they have had very few failures on them.
2017 F3T-SM6 Squared Away Mirror Wedgies & Alignment
2014 RTS-SM6 123,600 miles Sold 11/2017
2014 RTL-SE6 8,600 miles
2011 RTS-SM5 5,000 miles
2013 RTS-SM5 burned up with 13,200 miles in 13 weeks
2010 RTS-SM5 59,148 miles
2010 RT- 622
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01
I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case. My dealer said that BRP was no longer replacing them just because of the red dust, they have to fail first.
My Spyder is a manual and I understand they have had very few failures on them.
Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.
If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.
Last edited by jcthorne; 10-18-2018 at 02:23 PM.
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Very Active Member
F-3 front sprocket failure
From Ann
I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case.
JCThorne
Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.
If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.
JC and Ann, thank you both for answering my question. Follow up question do either of you know if BRP is working on a "fix" for this???
Al in Kazoo
All the great movements in the world began with a cup of coffee!
2018 F3-T
My mods: Can am Trailer hitch, USB and 12 volt power outlets, Gustason windshield, Bead rider seat cushion, battery harness for electric gear and battery tender, Time out trailer.
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Is BRP working on this problem?
The answer is NO.
Their "remedy" is to just install another front sprocket with Locktite 660.
Originally Posted by IGETAROUND
From Ann
I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case.
JCThorne
Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.
If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.
JC and Ann, thank you both for answering my question. Follow up question do either of you know if BRP is working on a "fix" for this???
Al in Kazoo
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Very Active Member
BRP believes the problem is solved with the correct install of a new sprocket and the specified Loctite compound.
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I'm hoping you are correct because that's exactly what BRP told my tech.
So in the meantime I need to keep putting the mileage on my bike to test it.
If this is the fix then I might consider an upgrade to an F3T....
Originally Posted by jcthorne
BRP believes the problem is solved with the correct install of a new sprocket and the specified Loctite compound.
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BRP would be forced to address the issue if everyone that has a failure reports it to www.nhtsa.gov
2017 F3T-SM6 Squared Away Mirror Wedgies & Alignment
2014 RTS-SM6 123,600 miles Sold 11/2017
2014 RTL-SE6 8,600 miles
2011 RTS-SM5 5,000 miles
2013 RTS-SM5 burned up with 13,200 miles in 13 weeks
2010 RTS-SM5 59,148 miles
2010 RT- 622
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Originally Posted by jcthorne
Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.
If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.
That may be how your rep is handling it but the rep for Las Vegas said that they woukd not make a repair unless it failed. I have no reason to believe that he did not say that.
2017 F3T-SM6 Squared Away Mirror Wedgies & Alignment
2014 RTS-SM6 123,600 miles Sold 11/2017
2014 RTL-SE6 8,600 miles
2011 RTS-SM5 5,000 miles
2013 RTS-SM5 burned up with 13,200 miles in 13 weeks
2010 RTS-SM5 59,148 miles
2010 RT- 622
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01
That may be how your rep is handling it but the rep for Las Vegas said that they woukd not make a repair unless it failed. I have no reason to believe that he did not say that.
FWIW, save the gearbox shaft and get the pulley swapped out before complete failure of the pulley. Typically the gearbox shaft shows no wear, but iron oxide particles are very hard and will cause minor wear as it severly wears the pulley splines.
Glue that new pulley onto the shaft with the Loctite and move on.
Our 14 had no oxide dust, still removed the pulley, inspected for wear and reinstalled. That was on an RT and took me about an hour total.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01
That may be how your rep is handling it but the rep for Las Vegas said that they woukd not make a repair unless it failed. I have no reason to believe that he did not say that.
If your bike goes to the shop and the shop removes the bolt and finds the worn out of spec splines, its already failed. Even if the sprocket has not yet slipped on the shaft. As I said, its your dealer that does not want to handle the case and input the warranty claim with required photos to BRP. There has not been ONE documented case where BRP has actually denied the warranty claim if valid. They have even approved a few after the warranty expires.
I have seen them approved overnight as recently as last week. This is not a case of ask the local rep, its actually filing the case with BRP on BossWEB with required photos for documentation. Gets approved quickly. The local rep is not who approves the claim.
Perhaps you should go by Coyote Powersports there in Boerne before you leave, they might be more helpful than your dealer in LV. Heck, since you already bought the pulley and bolt, you are only talking about a half hour labor to install it even if you paid out of pocket. As much as you travel on that bike, I would not head out of town with the sprocket failing like that.
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https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
Going to file that ASAP. Thanks SpyderAnn01
Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01
BRP would be forced to address the issue if everyone that has a failure reports it to www.nhtsa.gov
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Very Active Member
I decided to be proactive and pulled my pully at 800 miles and give it the loctite treatment... easy to do. Should be good to go for the long haul now.
Spyder #1 - 2008 GS SM5 Premier Edition #1977. RIP after 80,000 miles.
Spyder #2 - 2012 RT SM5. Traded in after 24,000 miles.
Spyder #3 - 2015 F3 SM6. Put 13,000 miles on and sold it.
Spyder #4 - 2017 F3 SM6. Too good of a deal to pass up!
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by PMK
FWIW, save the gearbox shaft and get the pulley swapped out before complete failure of the pulley. Typically the gearbox shaft shows no wear, but iron oxide particles are very hard and will cause minor wear as it severly wears the pulley splines.
Glue that new pulley onto the shaft with the Loctite and move on.
Our 14 had no oxide dust, still removed the pulley, inspected for wear and reinstalled. That was on an RT and took me about an hour total.
How do you guys pull off the pulley in a hour? Mine was Not bad at all when I took the bolt out but there was No Way I was getting it off to replace. It appears to be almost welded on there until , of course , it goes Bad and then comes off Real Easy on its own as most know! I would imagine you have to loosen the belt to get the pulley off and then tighten and re-align and re-tension test and All that stuff could take Way more than a Hour???
2015 F3 sm6, Custom Dynamics fender lights.
Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Sarge707
How do you guys pull off the pulley in a hour? Mine was Not bad at all when I took the bolt out but there was No Way I was getting it off to replace. It appears to be almost welded on there until , of course , it goes Bad and then comes off Real Easy on its own as most know! I would imagine you have to loosen the belt to get the pulley off and then tighten and re-align and re-tension test and All that stuff could take Way more than a Hour???
Remove body panel. Loosen pulley bolt. Jack Spyder so rear wheel is raised. Disconnect ride height sensor. Remove lower shock bolt. Slide belt off rear pulley, then off front.
My pulley slid off easily as it had no wear. The factory had lubricated the splines.
I accomplished cleaning of the splines and gearbox shaft.
Myself, I opted not to use the Loctite method and reassembled with lubricated splines.
Assembled the other items then torqued the pulley bolt to spec.
Granted, if the pulley were stuck on tne gearbox shaft it could take longer. But honestly, I had at most an hour into it.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by PMK
Remove body panel. Loosen pulley bolt. Jack Spyder so rear wheel is raised. Disconnect ride height sensor. Remove lower shock bolt. Slide belt off rear pulley, then off front.
My pulley slid off easily as it had no wear. The factory had lubricated the splines.
I accomplished cleaning of the splines and gearbox shaft.
Myself, I opted not to use the Loctite method and reassembled with lubricated splines.
Assembled the other items then torqued the pulley bolt to spec.
Granted, if the pulley were stuck on tne gearbox shaft it could take longer. But honestly, I had at most an hour into it.
I know how to as I just changed my tire again BUT Most people cannot get a Pulley that has been on there for thousands of miles without heating it and being a Good mechanic- Especially if they had any red dust indicators.
2015 F3 sm6, Custom Dynamics fender lights.
Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Sarge707
I know how to as I just changed my tire again BUT Most people cannot get a Pulley that has been on there for thousands of miles without heating it and being a Good mechanic- Especially if they had any red dust indicators.
No need to remove the rear wheel.
There should be no need to heat the pulley. But whatever works for some I guess. As James explained, he was unable to get his pulley off, however the dealer used a common crow foot puller and was able to remove it.
Obviously, anyone outside their skill level, comfort level, or not having the proper tools should simply allow a qualified person to accomplish the task.
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How hard the pulley is to remove, depends on the condition of the splines. On one with no damage the pulley will slide off easily. When it can get difficult is with damaged splines. They will start to twist and bind against the output shaft splines. Then the pulley can be difficult to get off. Once the splines get completely destroyed, then the pulley is pretty easy to remove also. Lol
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Originally Posted by jcthorne
If your bike goes to the shop and the shop removes the bolt and finds the worn out of spec splines, its already failed. Even if the sprocket has not yet slipped on the shaft. As I said, its your dealer that does not want to handle the case and input the warranty claim with required photos to BRP. There has not been ONE documented case where BRP has actually denied the warranty claim if valid. They have even approved a few after the warranty expires.
I have seen them approved overnight as recently as last week. This is not a case of ask the local rep, its actually filing the case with BRP on BossWEB with required photos for documentation. Gets approved quickly. The local rep is not who approves the claim.
Perhaps you should go by Coyote Powersports there in Boerne before you leave, they might be more helpful than your dealer in LV. Heck, since you already bought the pulley and bolt, you are only talking about a half hour labor to install it even if you paid out of pocket. As much as you travel on that bike, I would not head out of town with the sprocket failing like that.
JC what is this "BossWEB" ?
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Sarge707
How do you guys pull off the pulley in a hour? Mine was Not bad at all when I took the bolt out but there was No Way I was getting it off to replace. It appears to be almost welded on there until , of course , it goes Bad and then comes off Real Easy on its own as most know! I would imagine you have to loosen the belt to get the pulley off and then tighten and re-align and re-tension test and All that stuff could take Way more than a Hour???
If you have spine issues and red dust then the pully certainly can be harder to remove. On my 2008 GS we had to cut the damn thing off with a torch. The puller we used just broke the collar on the pully.
Otherwise there's no need to remove rear tire or do any belt alignment.. it will stay how it was before the pully swap.
Spyder #1 - 2008 GS SM5 Premier Edition #1977. RIP after 80,000 miles.
Spyder #2 - 2012 RT SM5. Traded in after 24,000 miles.
Spyder #3 - 2015 F3 SM6. Put 13,000 miles on and sold it.
Spyder #4 - 2017 F3 SM6. Too good of a deal to pass up!
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by stebrock
JC what is this "BossWEB" ?
Network system dealers use for communication with BRP. Includes bulletins, warranty claims, parts look ups etc.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by jcthorne
Network system dealers use for communication with BRP. Includes bulletins, warranty claims, parts look ups etc.
here
https://www.bossweb.brp.com/Legacy/S.../HelpIndex.htm
although it may not be what dealers use
2017 F3, SM6-basic black, plain and simple
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My tech told me they have the equivalent of Spyderlovers for dealers only.
Mechanics in almost all fields have their own as well.
Even my family doctor showed me their doctor only website and how they keep up on the latest medical procedures.
Its good BRP keeps their website locked down to dealers only.
Originally Posted by ofdave
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