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  1. #1
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    Default Front End Side to Side Waggle

    Yup, new guy question, thanks for patience.

    I read the "Do's and Do Not's" page, it mentions this issue, and to not grip the bars tightly, but to relax.

    I've also read a couple recent threads where bad roads make this issue more severe. Some of those writers stated the severity was bad enough to make them walk away from the machine, and go ride something else. (I'm sure it was not that one thing, but contributed to their unhappiness).

    So, here I am, mullin' buying an F3, and I know this town (Tucson AZ) has pretty bad roads. The town is doing best it can, but they're bad no doubt. Lots of potholes...

    So, there's that issue and that I live at the end of 1/2 mile of dirt / sand / pebble road (1 mile round trip, every time...), and then there's the problem with the belt and gravel. I know that can be solved with an aftermarket guard.

    But, can this "waggle" problem be solved, or reduced, or is it just "the nature of the beast", and you live with it? How bad is it?

  2. #2
    Active Member fjray's Avatar
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    With two front wheels on the ground a fair amount of bump steer is to be expected. keep a loose grip and let it dance, It won't go to far. Proper alignment can help but it's not a cure all.

  3. #3
    Very Active Member Flamewinger's Avatar
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    Many of us get the bike aligned and upgrade the sway bar and heim links. (BajaRon). Check the spyderlovers home page for vendors.

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  4. #4
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    Default Wiggle waggle

    I also live 2 miles down a dirt and limestone road. Not too concerned about the dirt and pebbles, I just go slower. It (2018 F3 Limited) does want to follow the road ruts a little but its not to bad. A light hand on bars is all thats needed. With three wheels its definitely a little more challenging trying to miss potholes and road debris. Having ridden 2 wheels for over 52 years its probably a little harder for me to get used to it then those who have never ridden, but its coming along fairly fast. Just got my spyder 2 months ago but because of crappy weather have not ridden all that much, only 1400 miles on it.
    Planning a trip to Ga mountains next month and doing the Natchez Trace Parkway next year. I'm warming up to the spyder.

  5. #5
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    I sort of agree with fjray with the addition of once you learn how to straddle rough spots between one of the front wheels and the rear wheel it makes things a bit smoother -- sometimes.
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  6. #6
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    Default Asphalt Eagle

    Quote Originally Posted by AsphaltEagle View Post
    I also live 2 miles down a dirt and limestone road. Not too concerned about the dirt and pebbles, I just go slower. It (2018 F3 Limited) does want to follow the road ruts a little but its not to bad. A light hand on bars is all thats needed. With three wheels its definitely a little more challenging trying to miss potholes and road debris. Having ridden 2 wheels for over 52 years its probably a little harder for me to get used to it then those who have never ridden, but its coming along fairly fast. Just got my spyder 2 months ago but because of crappy weather have not ridden all that much, only 1400 miles on it.
    Planning a trip to Ga mountains next month and doing the Natchez Trace Parkway next year. I'm warming up to the spyder.
    If you get up around Two Wheels Suches motorcycle resort on the 6th thru 9th next month, come on by and join in on our COG event. We don't care what you ride. Camping, riding and BSing around the campfire. Great bunch of people that like to ride on great roads.
    Life is attitude, be positive!

  7. #7
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    There is no waggle problem with the Sypders.

    Just spyders in need of alignment, tires, balance or all three.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mebgardner View Post
    How bad is it?
    Hard to answer because it varies as much with the rider as it does with each machine.

    Some never seem to notice it at all.
    Most adjust their riding techniques and it gets less irritating over time.
    Some are hyper-sensitive to it and eventually give up.

    There are more riding techniques involved than just keeping a "loose" grip on the bars.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    There is no waggle problem with the Sypders.
    Your opinion.

    But I think that statement is grossly misleading.......because there IS a different riding dynamic with 3 wheels......and there is nothing you can do to completely "fix" it.......short of removing one wheel.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  10. #10
    Very Active Member AY4B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    Your opinion.

    But I think that statement is grossly misleading.......because there IS a different riding dynamic with 3 wheels......and there is nothing you can do to completely "fix" it.......short of removing one wheel.
    Actually JCThorne is correct and he is a professional Tech. I have come to listen to what he says and agree 100%. When I was new on my first spyder I felt the wiggle waggle. It was just my inexperience. give it some miles and the things JC mentioned. You will feel like you are on rails.
    2017 F3 Limited. Garmin 590, LED fog Kit with white and amber rings, Fender LED kit, Spyder cuff drink holder. RR belt damper, Baja Ron Swaybar with Heim links. Spyderpops bumpskid, Rear brake/turn/run/strobe LED kit W Top case. Cat delete pipe. BRP touring windshield. FOBO TPM. Tech Grip phone holder. Black Dymond Grippers. Missing belt guard. SENA 30K. Ultimate Tall boy seat with drivers backrest, LaMonster gas cap, Brite Ryder LED's, Elka Shocks, TricLED Wide view mirrors

  11. #11
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    After a proper alignment ( thanks Squared Away!!! ) I have NO " waggle " of the bars. On a flat road I can take my hands off the bars for a few moments and there is no pull to either side. Bump steer is minimal. Spyders SHOULD come from the factory/dealer with proper front and belt alignment.

    Of course the front tires do need to have equal air pressure. This may have been the cause of those who found the to be poor handling. Thousands of us have no problem with our Spyders.
    And yes, I have up graded the suspension, but I've done that on all my motorcycles and cars.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AY4B View Post
    You will feel like you are on rails.
    You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

    You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

    SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

    What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
    It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

    The difference is there and it is REAL.
    To deny it does nobody any favors.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  13. #13
    Active Member Jeffmal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

    You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

    SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

    What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
    It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

    The difference is there and it is REAL.
    To deny it does nobody any favors.
    Easy Rider, Did you get your issues taken care of or are you still getting the "twitchy" feeling?
    What have you done personally to correct the issues other than time in the saddle?

  14. #14
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    Default Need an experienced rider

    If you could ride one that is set up correctly you would know how it handles correctly. Yes it's different but when you get the feeling it on rails you know it's rite. I also am new to it and found that tire inflation put mine on rails. when new for me it's improper inflation was corrected and handled badly. Up the front and it was like on rails.
    Last edited by wingit3611; 08-10-2018 at 08:51 AM.

  15. #15
    Active Member stmike 1800's Avatar
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    What makes me pissed is BRP will not help ,they leave it up to the owner to ether dump the dam thing or to fix it own your own.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    Is this only a new problem with the '17's and '18's? My '13 has always been rock solid as far as tracking goes. Granted I bought it used so maybe the OO had it tweaked where it didn't have the issue, but from the vehemence of Easy Rider and STMike 1800 with the newer models, I'm wondering if it's model related....
    I have only rode mine about 22,000 miles, over a variety of road surfaces, including about 30 miles on dirt/gravel roads in Canada and northern MN and it's never seemed to "wiggle waggle" at all.
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  17. #17
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    Default Another newbie's two-cents worth

    Quote Originally Posted by mebgardner View Post
    But, can this "waggle" problem be solved, or reduced, or is it just "the nature of the beast", and you live with it? How bad is it?
    I've only had a motorcycle license since July 2017, so I am a newbie in more than just the Spyder world. Got my permit in April 2017 and hubby bought me a 2014 Suzuki Boulevard as a learner bike (new, with only a couple miles on the odometer). I rode it from April 2017 to June 2018 - traded it in at just a hair over 3,500 miles.

    Dealer is 2+ hours from our house. I was warned about the shimmy and told to "relax your hands when you feel it". We had just rode the bikes down to pick her up, so I was hopping directly from 2+ hours on a two-wheel ride to a three-wheel ride. Several times on that trip home I had to stretch my fingers to the sky while keeping my palms on the grips. This did help immensely. Hubby (my toy budget) took her for a spin when we got home and commented he noticed the shimmy to and that it went away when he relaxed his hands. It took me probably 500-1,000 miles to break that "death grip" hold that causes the shimmy. I'm not sure I would consider it a wiggle-waggle, but you can feel it.

    I have 4,500 miles on Angry Bug now, and the only time I feel that shimmy is when I get tense in rush hour traffic...it's the distracted drivers that cause the anxiety more so than the extra vehicles on the roadway.

    That said, now that I am more confident in how she handles, have been pushing my boundaries more, and can actually relax enough to enjoy riding, I have noticed a slight drift to the right that I believe may be alignment related rather than road grade related. I'm planning on talking to my toy budget when he's home this weekend about a sway bar upgrade and alignment.

    You didn't specify (or I didn't retain) which F3 you were considering. Angry Bug is a 2017 F3-T SE6. And yes, I have put more miles on her in 2 months than I put on the bike I owned for over a year. She's become my daily driver which says a lot about my growth as a rider and comfort level on her, because I never took the Boulevard on a solo ride. Also I'm not being mean by referring to hubby as the "toy budget" because he introduces me as his "retirement plan". 😉
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  18. #18
    Active Member stmike 1800's Avatar
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    I have 7,000 km on the rtl now and when on good highways ( 400 series ) i can ride up to 140 km no problem . But get on some of are northern crappy roads it is hard to go 80 km .

  19. #19
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

    You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

    SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

    What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
    It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

    The difference is there and it is REAL.
    To deny it does nobody any favors.
    I have had a number of customers bring me bikes saying the same thing. Every one of them have changed their tune after the bike was properly set up. There is no waggle problem, the bike goes straight down the road with little to no input. IF its working properly. MANY are not.

    The real problems are the bikes leave the dealership not aligned and wearing awful tires, not balanced and improper air pressures.
    Last edited by jcthorne; 08-10-2018 at 06:38 AM.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S.

  20. #20
    Active Member tehrlich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    I have had a number of customers bring me bikes saying the same thing. Every one of them have changed their tune after the bike was properly set up. There is no waggle problem, the bike goes straight down the road with little to no input. IF its working properly. MANY are not.

    The real problems are the bikes leave the dealership not aligned and wearing awful tires, not balanced and improper air pressures.
    Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

    I already had the anti-sway bar upgrade and kept the Krappy Kendas at synchronized psi, but after James laser aligned, put Yokohamas on, and placed the centramatics balancers, my Spyder was smooth, smooth, smooth. It was a huge difference and I don't see how anyone could say that it is not "true" in the vernacular or the mechanical.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffmal View Post
    Easy Rider, Did you get your issues taken care of or are you still getting the "twitchy" feeling?
    What have you done personally to correct the issues other than time in the saddle?
    Based on the "collective wisdom" found on here......I am about to schedule a laser alignment, and stiffer sway bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingit3611 View Post
    If you could ride one that is set up correctly you would know how it handles correctly. Yes it's different but when you get the feeling it on rails you know it's rite. I also am new to it and found that tire inflation put mine on rails. Had new for me it's improper inflation.
    So far, all I really have done is make sure that the front tires have equal pressure and raised the pressure a few pounds to try and make the sidewalls a bit stiffer. It seems to have helped some......but of course I have more time in the seat now too.

    Are you saying that tire inflation is the ONLY thing you changed ? And which way did you go ?
    Or was it off and you just went back to the recommended settings ??
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGoebel View Post
    and it's never seemed to "wiggle waggle" at all.
    What was your previous experience on 2 wheels ?

    Some people don't notice it at all, especially those who did NOT ride a 2-wheeler it seems.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    There is no waggle problem, the bike goes straight down the road with little to no input. IF its working properly. MANY are not.

    The real problems are the bikes leave the dealership not aligned and wearing awful tires, not balanced and improper air pressures.
    Do you REALLY not understand that you are contradicting yourself ?? Well you ARE.

    There is no problem.......except when there IS......which is quite often apparently.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehrlich View Post
    It was a huge difference and I don't see how anyone could say that it is not "true" in the vernacular or the mechanical.
    What exactly is that supposed to mean ?

    The only argument I have is with those people who insist on continuing to say "there is no problem"......because there IS in a lot of cases.

    The fact that it can be fixed does NOT erase the problem from existence.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  25. #25
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

    You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

    SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

    What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
    It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

    The difference is there and it is REAL.
    To deny it does nobody any favors.
    I understand your frustration. But no one is attempting to 'Dismiss' your experience or tell you, you don't know what you're talking about. Especially JC. He's a knowledgeable and very nice guy who does a lot to help improve the Spyder so the owner can enjoy it.

    For those of us who have experienced a properly set up Spyder, it is so good that we want others to have the same opportunity. It's more than trying to sell more product. Personally, I really get a kick when someone calls or emails saying how much they enjoy their sway bar, shock adjusters or whatever.

    People do have differing sensibilities and expectations. It is not unreasonable to have high exceptions for such an expensive machine. And the learning curve can be frustrating. Especially if you've come off a lifetime of riding 2 wheels. But the journey is worth it. The machine is sound and virtually every complaint has been address by someone in the aftermarket arena.

    There are a lot of variables. But the bottom line is. Whatever your experience. The Spyder is inherently a very stable platform.

    In my case it made me a bit angry when I was told the Spyder was stable. That it was my riding style that made the Spyder feel twitchy. Like I didn't know what I was doing after all those years in the saddle of a 2 wheeler! But, fact of the matter, they were right and I ended up thanking them for their input which I initially rejected. They were not trying to dismiss me or tell me I didn't know what I was experiencing. They were trying to help me get over the hump so I could really enjoy my new ride.

    Hang in there! It gets a lot better!
    Last edited by BajaRon; 08-10-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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