Front Wheel Alignment

[rvanbeek]

I've been studying a procedure from Lindsay Whipp for making the jig that is attached to the front wheels of the Spyder and attaching Laser levels to the Jig. I had to adjust measurements to fit my RT but made a jig from 1/2 inch cabinet grade plywood. Rare earth magnets epoxied to bolts and set at 75mm lengths with calipers and also loc tite used for security. OK... that's the set up. The targets for the lasers were set 75 inches to the rear from the center of the front hub and 32 1/16 from center of the rear wheel. Handle bars have been secured with straps to center them and centered.

The lasers tell me that the Rt wheel is toe in by 1/2 in at 75 ihches and the left is toe out by 1/2 inch at 75 inches.

The Bike handles with kind of a twitchy, crabbing effect. If my math is correct I am less than an 1/8 in toe in on one side and less that an 1/8 in toe out on the other. That's without any additional weight the RT.

This is a 2018 RTL and has 1100 miles. So do I go back to the dealership give them the information. I could set it up and show them, doesn't take that long. Or do I just make the changes my self? It's under warrantee. I've got a good relationship with dealer but don't know how he will respond.

[JayBros]

Go to the dealer and let them solve the problem. That's what BRP pays them to do. Your best bet is to have it aligned by a good shop using the Rolo laser alignment system. The only two dealers currently listed in MI are in Lapeer and Monroe.

[stmike 1800]

I had my bike at the dealer yesterday for belt vibration ,and ill handling ( as in dips and dives from one side of the line to the other ) BRP will not pay for the belt idler . BRP will not pay for an alinment,as it is consider maintenance .This is from BRP care, or BRP does not give a rats hind end. This is on my 2018 RTL.

[SpyderAnn01]

Agreed, BRP does not pay for alignments.

[rvanbeek]

So... checking with http://www.spydercomfort.com/ I find that there may exist information from BRP

On 3/25/14 BRP issues a service bulletin to their dealers named Roadster alignment specifications, number 2014-6. In this bulletin BRP endorses The True Laser Track patented Laser System and recommends their dealers use this revolutionary new method to align the Spyder.

On 3/25/2015 BRP issues a additional service bulletin to their dealers named Roadster alignment specifications, number 2015-6, endorsing True Laser track for the 2nd year in a row

On 2/25/2016 BRP issues a additional service bulletin to their dealers named Roadster alignment specifications, number 2016-6, endorsing True Laser track for the 3rd year in a row

On 3/20/2017 BRP Issues a additional service bulletin to their dealers named Roadster alignment specifications, number 2017-6 endorsing True Laser track for the 4th year in a row

On 3/20/2018 BRP Issues a additional service bulletin to their dealers named Roadster alignment specifications, number 2018-6 endorsing True Laser track for the 5th year in a row

BRP seems to realize that there is an issue with the alignment.

[stmike 1800]

Good info rvanbeek, but who pays !!!!!

[PMK]

In regards to the original topic, the numbers you stated, if I understand them correct, essentially indicate zero toe unladen.

If you correct the to, at the position you have the handlebars set, it seems very likely you will need to have the steering centering nulled by a Buds hookup.

Additionally, I did not see mention that toe was checked with a rider onboard. Spyders toe out when loaded or hit bumps due to steering geometry bump steer. Consider this if you decide to adjust yourself.

All the best with it.

[jcthorne]

Good info rvanbeek, but who pays !!!!!

You do. BRP considers it maintenance. No different than an oil change or brake pads.

[stmike 1800]

You do. BRP considers it maintenance. No different than an oil change or brake pads.

BS - This is a new bike, and not maintenance.

[rvanbeek]

So this is what the set up looks like on my wife's 2013.

20180802_174902_001.jpg

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20180802_175024.jpg

First pic is jig with laser. 2nd is front wheel left side looking to the rear. The 3rd is close up of target. Bold line in middle is zero. To the right is toe in and the left is toe out. 1/2 inch increments. This one shows toe out at 75 inches from axle. The last 2 pics are the right and shows toe in. In fact I probably would not change this one.

[oldguyinTX]

It would be helpful if the pictures were rotated, but don't ask me how to do it.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

BS - This is a new bike, and not maintenance.

The first alignment, and the correction of that if it's not right, are dealer responsibility as part of the pre-delivery assembly and prep, at least as I see it. I'd explain to the service manager exactly what you did and what you discovered. They should check it, but it'll be according to the BRP manual which ain't the laser method, and doesn't always match results with the laser method. As to how long after you took delivery of the bike they will redo it at no charge is a matter to be decided between you and the dealer.

The Rolo laser method is approved by BRP, and maybe even endorsed as a good way to do alignments, but it is not the preferred factory method, even if it is better.

[jcthorne]

[

BS - This is a new bike, and not maintenance.

BRP considers it maintenance. No different than an oil change or brake pads.

[Easy Rider]

BRP considers it maintenance. No different than an oil change or brake pads.

SO.....if the Spyder comes "out of the box" with no oil in it or with brakes that don't function......by their "theory" those things would not be taken care of as part of normal setup....or warranty ??

Some of their "policies" are just not right.

AND......a really savvy dealer could advertise that "we check the front end alignment on every new Spyder we sell. Other dealers might not do that."

[nethfel]

Some dealers do a full alignment on new spyders (and I think trade in's too ie - that place that Smoak works for) - but not every dealer and you'd have to ask.

I'd say if the bike is new (like within a few weeks) I'd contact the dealer you got it from and see if you can work something out with them. Most likely they would have been the ones to setup the bike out of the box, and I know if I were a dealer I'd probably do an alignment on newly assembled units to at least make sure everything was on right and nothing adjusted in shipping...

[rvanbeek]

I'm going to nail this down a little more next week when the dealer owner and Sales manager get back from vacation. Last week I talked to the Spyder service guru when I complained to him about the way my wife's yellow RTS was handling and found that the rear wheel was a little out of alignment. No real difference. I talked to him about laser alignment and he really didn't have much to say because he didn't understand it. He said they have a way of checking alignment but it wasn't laser.

I am hoping that they will allow an experiment by adjusting my can am according to my laser findings. My 2018 shows toe in on one side and toe out on the other by nearly the same amount. That's unloaded. Wife's spyder (2013) showed good toe in on one side and toe'd way out on the other. ( looked like I would have to move the toe in by about 3/8 to 1/2 inch.) Some of the hesitation of the dealership may be that they have never driven a Spyder after a laser alignment. When I'm told "that's just the way they are" doesn't work for me when there are ways to make them better than they are. Many put on belt idlers and sway bars because they don't "like the way they are."

I am going to set up my RTL again and see if findings can be duplicated. If they are then I am reasonably sure of accuracy. I would also like to find from someone about the width of the rear Rim. Specs say 7 inches but that doesn't seem right and using a tape measure is difficult because you can't touch both sides.

For those that have had the laser alignment done, what amount of toe in did you end up with, with no weight on Bike.

During the process I have put restraints on the handle bars so that they do not move. If I change alignment will that throw off BUDS in that I need to have it re-calibrated?

Rich

[SpyderJerry]

It all depends on where the handle bars were when it was setup with Buds originaly. For my initial alignment, I centered the handle bars and then laser aligned the wheels. Not knowing what the original handle bar setting was, I then went to one of my dealers and had it set to my measurements. Anytime I check alignment after this, I will position handle bars in the same location and Buds will not be needed. I set mine to 1/8" toe in and it handles perfect.

[PMK]

It all depends on where the handle bars were when it was setup with Buds originaly. For my initial alignment, I centered the handle bars and then laser aligned the wheels. Not knowing what the original handle bar setting was, I then went to one of my dealers and had it set to my measurements. Anytime I check alignment after this, I will position handle bars in the same location and Buds will not be needed. I set mine to 1/8" toe in and it handles perfect.

Agree on the bar alignment and the original poster may do best to set his alignment and then have the steering nulled.

As for 1/8”, was that with or without a rider onboard?

[rvanbeek]

If I make these corrections and until I get it to the dealer to be hooked up on BUDS am I going to get error codes on the dash. Or is it going to effect the operation in any way.

[SpyderJerry]

Agree on the bar alignment and the original poster may do best to set his alignment and then have the steering nulled.

As for 1/8”, was that with or without a rider onboard?

Without rider on board, I weight 245. Still have Kenda tires, will be replacing soon as I wear them down, but handle ok at this time.

[PMK]

If I make these corrections and until I get it to the dealer to be hooked up on BUDS am I going to get error codes on the dash. Or is it going to effect the operation in any way.

It may. The non centered steering sensor may have the Spyder pull to one side and electrically load the steering box.

FWIW, you could note the original settings by marking the tie rod. Then make your adjustments. Make a second set of alignment marks.

Reset the steering to stock, ride to the dealer, adjust the rods in the parking lot to your spec. Then have them accomplish a BUDS hookup and null the steering sensor.

[SpyderJerry]

If I make these corrections and until I get it to the dealer to be hooked up on BUDS am I going to get error codes on the dash. Or is it going to effect the operation in any way.

The only thing I noticed was a little pull to the left, because of center being off. But mine was a totaled out crashed unit with new magnet, so it had to be reset anyway. No codes because of steering center.

[PMK]

Without rider on board, I weight 245. Still have Kenda tires, will be replacing soon as I wear them down, but handle ok at this time.

Interesting. That setting was not ideal for me at less weight. Glad it works for you. I did test that setting and even with less induced bump steer on account of us running FoxShox, 1/8” still had turn in concerns apexing the corners.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If I make these corrections and until I get it to the dealer to be hooked up on BUDS am I going to get error codes on the dash. Or is it going to effect the operation in any way.

Probably not. Depends on how far off zero the steering angle sensor is when you're moving straight forward.

[lindsayw148]

Just a quick note about BRP recommending the Rolo alignment system, and therefore owners not trusting any other alignment system: given their track record for ignoring owners’ concerns about wheel alignment, would you trust BRP’s recommendation? The Rolo system uses a hub insert to get a true parallel plane to the brake rotors and that’s fine. Wheel stand-offs, however, have been used for wheel alignment for more than a century – they were accurate in the days of string-lines, they are still accurate in the days of lasers. What the OP discovered was zero toe-in, which is VERY COMMON, or at least is common, straight out of the crate, here in Australia. With the toe-out bias generated by suspension movement while the bike is in motion, this actually means a small amount of toe-out in motion ( dependent on rider and passenger weight ), which is the worst-case-scenario, leading to twitchy steering and wandering, especially on uneven surfaces ( like most roads ).


Not getting the handlebar exactly straight before performing the alignment is exactly the same as not getting a steering wheel exactly centered on a car – it causes slight crabbing, but the alignment is still accurate. Aiming at 1/8” toe-in for an RT is, for fussy peeps like me, good for heavy loads, but probably a bit too much for solo riding. I am used to thinking in metrics, but 1/8” is about 3mm, and I would normally align an RT to 2mm for an average-weight rider, perhaps 2.5mm for rider and passenger. About 0.5mm less than that for the lighter models, RS, ST, F3.

Lindsay.