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  1. #51
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    The additional photos of the pulley installation.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #52
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    No - just going on what folks like you have posted in this thread. My hands-on experience is with the V-twins.

    The second Bold point contrasts with observations made by others herein, so That needs some investigation/confirmation. The pulley proud of shaft by about 1mm is the case on the V-twin. Thanks for your pic above.
    It does seem viable that when the gearbox shaft spun inside the worn pulley, the pulley width could have been worn or reduced also, but never to the point where the shaft is proud of the pulley, unless the pulley is not manufactured to the correct width, or dimensionally, something else is incorrect. I suspect, but could be wrong, the wording was incorrect as posts described the pulley bore height.

  3. #53
    Very Active Member tofriendscreek's Avatar
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    Red dust was very evident on my 17 F3L with 16,000 miles. The pulley came off using one hand. Wear was present in the spines, but had not reached the point of being severe. The splines were not coated with any grease. New install a few days ago with the Locktite fix per BRP. Fingers crossed.
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  4. #54
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Ironic, I was led to understand, when the dealer looked up the original separate bolt washer vs the one piece setup, the previous had been superseded. I was under the impression, you tried using a crow foot puller.

    My newly installed pulley has a bolt and washer. I did try a pulley puller but it had jaws to pull from the flange of the pulley. That is actually the correct tool for the job, the harmonic balancer puller with rigged bolts was a cobbled together idea that just happened to work. I was not even aware there was one spot on the rearward side of the pulley where there was sufficient room to slide a nut behind the pulley. So I figured I would share what worked in case others ran into it. Mine was stuck HARD.

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  5. #55
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    A photo of the bolt removed, pulley still in position on shaft, grease is evident and the pulley sets proud of the shaft.

    That is a different pulley than the 2015 and newer F3 use. One feature that immediately pops out is the threaded holes in the face that were used for the harmonic balencer on the older v twins. The newer pulleys are different. And the factory installs do not have grease, at least for F3 models.

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  6. #56
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    Default Lubing The Slines

    Quote Originally Posted by Culpjp View Post
    If you've ever removed the front pulley, it's not a tight fit with the output shaft, at least on the older 998's. You can easily remove it by hand. There is quite a bit of tolerance in the fit. Enough you can move the sprocket forward and backwards on the shaft.
    I think the this is causing the fretting wear. Everytime you would shift from reverse to first, or vice versa the splines would rub against each other. The Loctite will fill in this Gap and keep the splines from rubbing against each other.
    Or lube with heavy bearing grease at 5-year intervals or 30k miles, whichever comes first. And this method doesn't "glue" the sprocket to the shaft! Careful though, just lightly "wet" the splines. You don't want any grease oozing out when you torque down the bolt.
    Last edited by TerryTheSpyderRyder; 07-28-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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  7. #57
    Active Member SpyderJerry's Avatar
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    Default lubed splines

    Quote Originally Posted by stmike 1800 View Post
    All standard trans have sliding gears with splines ,they are in oil and almost never fail .If the sprocket was to be lubed with a moly type grease at a set time it should last .
    Keep in mind that gears in transmission are hardened just as the shaft is. the drive sprocket is not hardeded the same as the shaft.
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  8. #58
    Very Active Member stmike 1800's Avatar
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    They can make the shaft and gear to last, but choose not to.
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  9. #59
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stmike 1800 View Post
    They can make the shaft and gear to last, but choose not to.

    In this case, I think it was just a design oversight. Not a choice to cheap out on a part. The proposed fix BRP has initiated seems to be working and will likely be used for factory assembly going forward at some point.

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  10. #60
    Active Member OkieDoc's Avatar
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    Default Preventive Maintenance with Loctite 648

    I used an old steering wheel puller I had to remove my front sprocket. Large grade 8 washers behind on 3/8" bolts run through the holes in the sprocket, and an old bushing from my junk drawer over the center of the output shaft to protect the threads and it came off easily. The puller was the perfect size for the holes in the sprocket. There did not appear to be any "red dust" or any evidence of old lubricant or locking material. I cleaned the splines with brake cleaner and a brass brush on both the output shaft and my sprocket. I applied the Loctite 648 to both surfaces and "press fit" the sprocket back on with a dead blow hammer. Actually just a few light blows was all it took. I used blue thread locker on the bolt and torqued it to 90lb/ft.
    I did this while I was changing the rear tire so it was easy to get to and I believe will be good insurance in the future.
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  11. #61
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    In this case, I think it was just a design oversight. Not a choice to cheap out on a part. The proposed fix BRP has initiated seems to be working and will likely be used for factory assembly going forward at some point.
    While BRP may implement the Loctite process and procedeure for new bikes, my hunch is they go cheap and either do nothing or keep it simpler.

    Then again, BRP is infamous to overcomplicate stuff. Maybe they will skip the Loctite, save money by not using the bolt and simply weld the pulley to the shaft...

  12. #62
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    While BRP may implement the Loctite process and procedeure for new bikes, my hunch is they go cheap and either do nothing or keep it simpler.

    Then again, BRP is infamous to overcomplicate stuff. Maybe they will skip the Loctite, save money by not using the bolt and simply weld the pulley to the shaft...
    If red dust is appearing on the Sprocket, it must be either rust or copper. It most likely is not rust, so if it is copper, it appears the Sprocket Gear is manufactured from a soft sintered metal alloy, i.e. Zinc, Copper and possibly Nickel. it is a porous and soft cast metal, but cheap to machine. It can not be Case hardened, It usually is Electroplated with a Nickel coating, or Electroless Nickel coated using an Auto-Catalytic plating process. If that is how the Sprocket is manufactured, it is like a Razor Blade in a throw away shaver.
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  13. #63
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007james View Post
    If red dust is appearing on the Sprocket, it must be either rust or copper. It most likely is not rust, so if it is copper, it appears the Sprocket Gear is manufactured from a soft sintered metal alloy, i.e. Zinc, Copper and possibly Nickel. it is a porous and soft cast metal, but cheap to machine. It can not be Case hardened, It usually is Electroplated with a Nickel coating, or Electroless Nickel coated using an Auto-Catalytic plating process. If that is how the Sprocket is manufactured, it is like a Razor Blade in a throw away shaver.
    If you get a chance, read the link regarding fretting I posted. That red dust is telltale the pulley is trashed and is microscopic iron oxide particles. Very seldom do you see floating splines not lubricated, but it is what it is and will be what it will be.

  14. #64
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    This spline issue reminds me of my Valkyrie. The rear wheel was driven by a splined hub. As long as that splined hub was lubricated with a high content moly paste (60%), there was no noticeable wear. If that splined hub was not lubricated when changing out the rear tire, those hub splines would begin to wear.

    Eventually, Guard-Dog developed a high content moly grease (25%) that they claimed was more effective than using the Honda paste. The idea being that the grease would not dry out like the Honda paste. I began using the Guard-Dog product and had no noticeable wear on my hub splines. Both, the Honda paste and the Guard-Dog grease, were high moly content products vs the over the counter moly greases readily available.

    https://www.tsmoly.com/grease-moly-grease-p-251.html
    Last edited by Gunner3773; 08-05-2018 at 09:19 AM.

  15. #65
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    Default Locktite on the old 998

    Just curious if the locktite on the shaft is relevant to replacing the sprocket on the older Twins? I think mine is about ready to be replaced.
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  16. #66
    Active Member SpyderJerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmaison View Post
    Just curious if the locktite on the shaft is relevant to replacing the sprocket on the older Twins? I think mine is about ready to be replaced.
    Short answer, yes
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  17. #67
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Default Our 2016 F3T did have the white grease on the splined output shaft

    Quote "And the factory installs do not have grease, at least for F3 models."

    Here is a picture of the bolt, and shaft with a little of the grease remaining on our 2016 F3T.

    DSCN2683.jpgDSCN2673.jpg

    Just finished the preventative maintenance suggested by Lamont with the LocTite 648 at 34650 miles on the wifes F3T. No rust evident and the sprocket pulled off smoothly.

    I did get sloppy with the cleanup and application of the Loctite... take your time and have everything clean and ready to TAP TAP with a soft blow hammer, and assess the amount of Loctite and type needed by the present fit conditions.

    My learning process thread was on the F3 Hotrod forum under Preventive Maintenance using Loctite 648..
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