Amsoil 10w-40 metric oil.

[Easy Rider]

Maybe they make the distinction so that the owners of American made V-twins don't have to buy an oil made for "rice burners" when they want to use Amsoil!!

I think that is closer to the truth than you realize.

[BajaRon]

Maybe they make the distinction so that the owners of American made V-twins don't have to buy an oil made for "rice burners" when they want to use Amsoil!!

Exactly!

They are still getting 'Rice Burner' oil. They just don't have to know it!

[johnny canuck]

and had a conversation with the service department re: Amsoil MCF 10w40. Their argument is BRP(can-am) ?may? not honor the warranty if anything happens to the engine/transmission because.............. it's NOT "5"w-40 like their BRP oil. They state that everything inside is hydraulically driven and the oil may be TOO thick being a 10W. I showed them the pour point specs of -45 F (took a printed spec sheet with me). And I "jokingly" said if it's below 40F it's too cold for me to be out in it. Said it didn't matter and he was putting the work order info into a file incase Can-am needs it in case of a warranty claim. Guess they want to play hard ball. We NEED a MAG/MOSS law here in Ontario.

[johnny canuck]

Pg.128 "Under Engine Oil." Quoted from manual.

Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (P/N 293 600 121) "OR" a 5W-40 semi-synthetic "OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service able on the oil container.

Quotation marks on the word OR are mine.

"OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service label on the oil container.

Amsoil Metric MCF 10w-40 is JASO MA and MA2 certified.

Johnny

Thoughts please. Yea, I know it's all open to interpretation.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Amsoil Metric MCF 10w-40 is JASO MA and MA2 certified.

Strictly, and legalistically, speaking I don't believe it is "certified". Certified has a specific meaning in that the organization that does the certifying issues a certificate stating that such and such a product meets such and such a standard. As I mentioned above Amsoil does not submit its oils to API for certification because they don't want to deal with the bureaucratic requirements of API. But, there is no doubt in my mind they have had labs verify that Amsoil meets the specifications of the API. If you look closely at their label it does not have the API seal on it nor do they use the word "Meets" in the box where they list the specifications it conforms to.

Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries? If they did that would imply that they have McDonald's stamp of approval. And you and I both know McD will never say another company's fries meets their specifications!

You could argue that we're splitting hairs. But when it comes to certifications and specifications strict adherence to definitions is critical.

[fatenhappy]

Pg.128 "Under Engine Oil." Quoted from manual.

Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (P/N 293 600 121) "OR" a 5W-40 semi-synthetic "OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service able on the oil container.

Quotation marks on the word OR are mine.

"OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service label on the oil container.

Amsoil Metric MCF 10w-40 is JASO MA and MA2 certified.

Johnny

Thoughts please. Yea, I know it's all open to interpretation.

Exactly!

[fatenhappy]

Strictly, and legalistically, speaking I don't believe it is "certified". Certified has a specific meaning in that the organization that does the certifying issues a certificate stating that such and such a product meets such and such a standard. As I mentioned above Amsoil does not submit its oils to API for certification because they don't want to deal with the bureaucratic requirements of API. But, there is no doubt in my mind they have had labs verify that Amsoil meets the specifications of the API. If you look closely at their label it does not have the API seal on it nor do they use the word "Meets" in the box where they list the specifications it conforms to.

Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries? If they did that would imply that they have McDonald's stamp of approval. And you and I both know McD will never say another company's fries meets their specifications!

You could argue that we're splitting hairs. But when it comes to certifications and specifications strict adherence to definitions is critical.

"Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries?..." I get where you are coming from here but that really is not how this/that works is it? …. Can Am themselves are specifying a certain International Standard as 'their' accepted alternative … As long as you 'live up to that / their quoted International Standard' you would be rock solid. You can't say we will accept 'This and This' as our minimum replacement Standard and then say ...'oh no we won't' after publicising it !

[KX5062]

Good point. And you can add air cooled to many of them as well.

Certainly there are differences. Higher viscosity if nothing else. Yet all of the 'V-Twin' Amsoil products feature wet clutch compatibility which creates an unnecessary price increase if it were truly only for the compartmentalized motorcycles.

Just my possibly wrong opinion that I think marketing has taken into account the ego of some who own a certain brand of V-Twin motorcycle.

In the end, it's all good! I just think it a bit amusing at times.

So true, you can never discount the marketing factor.

[Mr. White]

I have used Amsoil in my 2 Gold Wings and 3 Spyders. My dealer changes my oil and filters and uses my oil. They never said a word about Amsoil. I am 85 and do as I please. If anyone does not like what I do, they can meet me at the flag pole at high noon!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

"Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries?..." I get where you are coming from here but that really is not how this/that works is it? …. Can Am themselves are specifying a certain International Standard as 'their' accepted alternative … As long as you 'live up to that / their quoted International Standard' you would be rock solid. You can't say we will accept 'This and This' as our minimum replacement Standard and then say ...'oh no we won't' after publicising it !

Very true, but the issue is certification. Since Amsoil does not have the API seal on the bottle we have to rely on their own or commissioned lab tests to know that they meet the standards. Verifying and demonstrating are not the same as certifying. If a dealer wants to be an a** and say that Amsoil is not acceptable because it is not certified by API that's his right. If he says he won't use Amsoil because it doesn't meet the API specifications then he would have to substantiate that assertion, something he can't, or can't afford to, do. BRP would be in same position, at least in the US. For BRP to deny a warranty claim because the owner used Amsoil they would have to prove that Amsoil is lying when they say their oil meets or exceeds the standards required by BRP.

Think of certification as the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." If it bears the seal, the organization that controls the use of the seal has required the company to jump through a bunch of hoops before the seal can be applied. Now in the real world does certification prove compliance? Probably nearly 100% of the time it does, but if a company is dishonest it can find ways to fudge the submitted results and get a certification for a product that doesn't meet the specifications. In the world of contracts certification is prima facie evidence of compliance for products, and of proficiency for doctors, lawyers, etc.

If you've never dealt with certification then you may not realize just how meaningful and important issues related to it can be.

[BLACK REV 800 X]

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/art...b-005056988f87

[Warlock]

Pure speculation.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that in advance.

Not speculation if you admit to using it YOU will lose. Now if you hadn't said you was using the10w40 it would be hard to prove

[Warlock]

and had a conversation with the service department re: Amsoil MCF 10w40. Their argument is BRP(can-am) ?may? not honor the warranty if anything happens to the engine/transmission because.............. it's NOT "5"w-40 like their BRP oil. They state that everything inside is hydraulically driven and the oil may be TOO thick being a 10W. I showed them the pour point specs of -45 F (took a printed spec sheet with me). And I "jokingly" said if it's below 40F it's too cold for me to be out in it. Said it didn't matter and he was putting the work order info into a file incase Can-am needs it in case of a warranty claim. Guess they want to play hard ball. We NEED a MAG/MOSS law here in Ontario.

That was the point I was making. They can win on that. But we know the Amsoil will not do this

[RVG RT1]

Hi everyone; I just bought a 2014 RT LTD w/12K mi., I have after 65 years of motorcycle ridding switched to the Can Am and love it so far. I have been involved in the oil debates on many motorcycle sites and all are the same (MINE IS BETTER THEN YOURS) when it comes to oil. I have had motorcycles by almost every brand from Vincent, HD, Suzuki, Yamaha, Norton, BSA, Triumph, and a whole lot of Honda's (GL1100A, GL1200A 2ea, GL1500A 2ea, GL1800A and Valkyrie plus many other Honda's. In the last 25-30 years I have used only Diesel oil's in my bike's and truck's and car's for the simple reason they make the best oil on the market IMHO. I have rode over 2 million miles total on my bike's and never ever had an engine problem or a tear down and I rebuild engines as a hobby for many years and restored both motor cycle, Mustang and Camaros. I have found Rotella T6 synthetic to give me the best shift quality and quiet running of my bikes. Standard Rotella T for you none synthetic guy and old loose engines work great. I wont go into all the details why the Diesel oil is the best but I can tell you it is IMHO. Below I will give you a web site that for anyone that really wants to find out about oil this is it, go to the lower section on diesel oil and you will realy understand why I only use Diesel oil. Sorry to be so long winded and will try to hold it down. Bob G.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

[Easy Rider]

Not speculation if you admit to using it YOU will lose.

Where did you get your law degree ??

In the US, not only do they have to prove that you did something wrong but they also have to make a strong case that what you did CAUSED a failure.
Guesses are not allowed.

YOU lose.

[Warlock]

Where did you get your law degree ??

In the US, not only do they have to prove that you did something wrong but they also have to make a strong case that what you did CAUSED a failure.
Guesses are not allowed.

YOU lose.

Kinda of a no brainier. If you admit to using a 10w40 oil in a engine with the OEM recommends a 5w40 they will win. No law degree just common sense. I know the 10w40 is a great oil and I use it. But in a law suit anything that isn't following OEM specs. You went on your own knowingly the spec is 5w40 and you pick 10w40. No where in the Can Am book do they say that you can use a 10w40.
David

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Kinda of a no brainier. If you admit to using a 10w40 oil in a engine with the OEM recommends a 5w40 they will win. No law degree just common sense. I know the 10w40 is a great oil and I use it. But in a law suit anything that isn't following OEM specs. You went on your own knowingly the spec is 5w40 and you pick 10w40. No where in the Can Am book do they say that you can use a 10w40.
David

The problem with your argument is that BRP "recommends" 5W-40. They DON'T "require" it be used. Recommend does not carry the legal weight that require does. In contract law you can't hold one of the parties in breach of contract if they don't adhere to a recommendation. If they don't follow a requirement then that is a breach of the contract.

[Warlock]

The problem with your argument is that BRP "recommends" 5W-40. They DON'T "require" it be used. Recommend does not carry the legal weight that require does. In contract law you can't hold one of the parties in breach of contract if they don't adhere to a recommendation. If they don't follow a requirement then that is a breach of the contract.

In my book it says the below copied info. Doesn't say recommended. There are several claims on the internet showing where people lost warranty due to using wrong viscosity oil. I have always used 10w40 in mine an will always use it. But in a case of engine failure you must provide good info on oil changes, oil used, etc. They could void the warranty if they choose. You might could win the battle in court, but that would take probably more than a year for a decission. We hope that most shops will not rat on the customer just to get out of paying for a engine. Also if they recommend a certain wt oil the ball is still in their court. Then it would be up to you to prove the oil didn't cause the failure being you used a different viscosity oil and that expense is out of your pocket unless like Amsoil steps in the pick up the cost and prove it wasn't their oil.

Use BRP XP-S 5W40 synthetic oil
(P/N 293 600 039) or an equivalentmotorcycle
oil meeting the requirements
for API service SL, SJ, SH or SG classification.
Always check the API service
label on the oil container.

[Easy Rider]

Kinda of a no brainier. No where in the Can Am book do they say that you can use a 10w40.
David

I think:
You need to read the book again......carefully.
Is there not a chart that shows different weights of oil that are appropriate for different temperature ranges ??

And you need to stop ASSuming things in the law that are NOT there.
THAT is kind of a no-brainer.

[ofdave]

this started as an interesting thread.
Then it got into a personal attack by one who cannot have civil discourse without attempting to demean a poster with whom he does not agree.
Sad

[Warlock]

I think:
You need to read the book again......carefully.
Is there not a chart that shows different weights of oil that are appropriate for different temperature ranges ??

And you need to stop ASSuming things in the law that are NOT
THAT is kind of a no-brainer.

This also applies to motorcycles. You have a way to really try and make people inferior to your great knowledge. I don't buy it and here read this.
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/...-car-warranty/
Just food for thought. Also right out of my book
3. EXCLUSIONS–ARENOTWARRANTED
The following are notwarranted under any circumstances:
– Replacement of routine maintenance items such as, without limitation, oil and
lubricants, filters and spark plugs.
– Normalwear and tear, such as,without limitation,wear and tear of the tires, battery,
generator brushes, sealed beams and light bulbs, clutch plates and facings,
drive belt, brake pads, brake linings and rotors and sprockets.
– Tune ups and adjustments including without limitation adjustments of belt,
alignment and wheel balance.
– Damages related to the appearance of the Product, includingwithout limitation
scratches, dents, fading, flaking, peeling and damages to seat covermaterial.
– Damage caused by failure to provide proper maintenance or storage, as described
in the Operator’s Guide.
– Damage resulting from removal of parts, improper repairs, improper service or
impropermaintenance,modifications, alterations that are outside of the original
specifications of the Product, or damage resulting from repairs done by a person
that is not an authorized servicing Distributor / Dealer.
– Damage resulting from the installation of parts with specifications that differ
from the original Product parts, such as, without limitation, different tires,
exhaust system, wheels or brakes.
– Damage resulting from abuse, abnormal use, neglect or operation of the
Product in a manner inconsistent with the recommendations of the Operator’s
Guide.
– Damage resulting from water ingestion, accident, road hazards, submersion,
fire, theft, vandalism or any act of God.
– Damage resulting from operation with fuels, oils or lubricants with specifications
different than as recommended in the Operator’s Guide.
– Damage resulting from corrosion from road salts, battery acid, environmental
influences or treatment contrary to the Operator’s Guide.
– Incidental or consequential damages, including without limitation, expense
for gasoline, expense for transporting the Product to and from the authorized
Distributor / Dealer, mechanic’s travel time, trailering or towing, storage,
telephone, cell phone, fax or telegram charges, rental of a like or replacement
Product during warranty services or down time, taxi, travel, lodging, loss of or
damage to personal property, inconvenience, cost of insurance coverage, loan
payments, loss of time, loss of income, revenue or profits, or loss of enjoyment
David

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

In my book it says the below copied info. Doesn't say recommended.

Would you like to search your owner's manual for yourself and find the ~ half dozen uses of the phrase "recommended oil", or do you want me to do it? Both the 2014 and 2018 RT manuals use the phrase 4 to 6 times. I didn't bother to count them.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

– Damage resulting from operation with fuels, oils or lubricants with specifications
different than as recommended in the Operator’s Guide.

"Damage resulting from..." That would be nigh impossible to prove. Lack of oil, easy peasy, 10w instead of 5w, pretty much impossible.

There's that pesky word, recommended. It doesn't say required, does it?

[Warlock]

Would you like to search your owner's manual for yourself and find the ~ half dozen uses of the phrase "recommended oil", or do you want me to do it? Both the 2014 and 2018 RT manuals use the phrase 4 to 6 times. I didn't bother to count them.

I found it in my book. But the way the use it is a catch 22. They could use it in their favor. But the bottom line is I'm not disagreeing on the 10w40 not hurting the engine just on the wording that BRP uses. My book doesn't have a oil chart but I have seen them in some of my other motorcycle books. If BRP had used the wording saying it you live it this climate you could use 10w40, but in my 08 book it doesn't say that anywhere. As in law suit wording can be a deal breaker and it states in the link I posted in the previous response. As in politics I will not convince you to see my way and I will not see your way. No big deal and it doesn't get under my skin. We could continue the disagreement for ever. I just hope no one ever has to do battle with this in a court room. I think it would be a dealer to make the waves as did the reason this thread started. I use the 10w40 and like ya'll would tell the dealer he is full of it. Just wording can throw a wrench into the gear works.
David

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I found it in my book. But the way the use it is a catch 22. They could use it in their favor. But the bottom line is I'm not disagreeing on the 10w40 not hurting the engine just on the wording that BRP uses. My book doesn't have a oil chart but I have seen them in some of my other motorcycle books. If BRP had used the wording saying it you live it this climate you could use 10w40, but in my 08 book it doesn't say that anywhere. As in law suit wording can be a deal breaker and it states in the link I posted in the previous response. As in politics I will not convince you to see my way and I will not see your way. No big deal and it doesn't get under my skin. We could continue the disagreement for ever. I just hope no one ever has to do battle with this in a court room. I think it would be a dealer to make the waves as did the reason this thread started. I use the 10w40 and like ya'll would tell the dealer he is full of it. Just wording can throw a wrench into the gear works.
David

I say we're good!