Amsoil 10w-40 metric oil.

[johnny canuck]

Just had a conversation with my dealer (in Canada). Took the bike (2017 RTL) in for some minor issues (not motor or tranny). Also took in my own oil for an oil change. Got a phone call from them a little while ago saying they had an issue with the oil. They STATED that if they put in THAT oil my warranty will be VOID if there are any problems with the motor or tranny. Told them that THEY put THAT oil in before and there were NO issues. They then stated that the oil is NOT what they recommend and that any issues (motor/tranny) going forward would NOT be covered.
Has anyone else had this BS problem with the dealer trying to force you to use their branded oil. I will also be contacting AMSOIL.

[jbim]

I don't think you need to argue with them. Just check your owner's manual for the oil specs. I have a 2018 F3L. The specs say

Use (P/N 293 600 121) or a 5W-40 semi-synthetic or synthetic motorcycle oil meeting the requirements for API service SJ, SL, SM or SN classification and JASO MA2

I found MOTOREX for BMW Boxer. Not cheap but excellent.

So if your Amsoil meets the specs, I don't know why they would argue other than the fact they want to sell you their oil.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Just had a conversation with my dealer (in Canada). Took the bike (2017 RTL) in for some minor issues (not motor or tranny). Also took in my own oil for an oil change. Got a phone call from them a little while ago saying they had an issue with the oil. They STATED that if they put in THAT oil my warranty will be VOID if there are any problems with the motor or tranny. Told them that THEY put THAT oil in before and there were NO issues. They then stated that the oil is NOT what they recommend and that any issues (motor/tranny) going forward would NOT be covered.
Has anyone else had this BS problem with the dealer trying to force you to use their branded oil. I will also be contacting AMSOIL.

I'm not sure whether you have Consumer protections like we have in the US ... the " Moss-Magnusson Act " prevents what the STEALER is pulling with you .........I feel you pain ............Mike

[Easy Rider]

I'm not sure whether you have Consumer protections like we have in the US ... the " Moss-Magnusson Act " prevents what the STEALER is pulling with you .........I feel you pain ............Mike

This.
If it IS motorcycle oil that you took them.
Is that what you mean by "metric" oil ??

[BajaRon]

Total fabrication. Amsoil 10w/40 MCF Motorcycle Oil meets or exceeds all requirements. It certainly outperforms the recommended BRP lubricants in every test result I have seen. There are Can-Am dealerships that offer Amsoil as an alternative service item.

You need to ask them specifically. In what area the Amsoil fails to meet their requirements.

[johnny canuck]

This.
If it IS motorcycle oil that you took them.
Is that what you mean by "metric" oil ??

Yes, it's motorcycle oil.

[trikermutha]

http://renosyn.com/will-amsoil-using...void-warranty/

It will NOT void your warranty!

[JKMSPYDER]

I can’t address what your laws are in Canada but AMSOIL exceeds all of BRP’s specs. I have been using AMSOIL metric in my F3 since the first oil change and have never had a problem with a dealer.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Is that what you mean by "metric" oil ??

Metric is Amsoil's name for the oil to distinguish it from their "V-twin" oil. I think it's a subtle way to say it's for Japanese and European bikes, not American made ones.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The specs say Use (P/N 293 600 121) or a 5W-40 semi-synthetic or synthetic motorcycle oil meeting the requirements for API service SJ, SL, SM or SN classification and JASO MA2

So if your Amsoil meets the specs, I don't know why they would argue other than the fact they want to sell you their oil.

That's where the rub is. I read on their website some time ago they will not submit their oil to API for the certification testing. They don't want to be hamstrung by the bureaucratic requirements that API imposes, or something of the sort. As you can see the label does not have the API seal on it, nor does the little box say "Meets" the various specs. I believe they rely on their own labs and or independent labs to verify their oil meets those specifications as published by API. There's a difference between 'verify' and 'certify'.

I have absolutely no qualms about using Amsoil, and have no doubts whatever that it meets the specs as noted on the label. If BRP ever tried to deny a warranty claim because I used Amsoil they would have to prove that the oil does not meet the stated specs. If it didn't, Amsoil would have long ago been strung up by the Federal Trade Commission for false advertising.

Amsoil metric label 2a.jpg

[BajaRon]

Metric is Amsoil's name for the oil to distinguish it from their "V-twin" oil. I think it's a subtle way to say it's for Japanese and European bikes, not American made ones.

Personally. I don't think Amsoil's use of 'Metric' is anything more than marketing. It makes the Metric people feel special while still having products that appear to cater to the Harley, Victory, Indian, etc., crowd.

[fatenhappy]

Just had a conversation with my dealer (in Canada). Took the bike (2017 RTL) in for some minor issues (not motor or tranny). Also took in my own oil for an oil change. Got a phone call from them a little while ago saying they had an issue with the oil. They STATED that if they put in THAT oil my warranty will be VOID if there are any problems with the motor or tranny. Told them that THEY put THAT oil in before and there were NO issues. They then stated that the oil is NOT what they recommend and that any issues (motor/tranny) going forward would NOT be covered.
Has anyone else had this BS problem with the dealer trying to force you to use their branded oil. I will also be contacting AMSOIL.

I also wanted to grab a 'better' more suited oil spec for our weather conditions here locally than the standard so I did mountains of research … AMSOIL came out on tops but I could not buy that here in Australia … At that time I was particularly wanting to use an oil that is not specified for extremely cold conditions so the next best for me was Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40 which I did eventually track down and source here locally.

As part of this research I noted this paragraph in Section 4 under Lubrication of the Can Am owners workshop manual for my 2017 F3-T which says in part you are indeed allowed to use alternatives. Those alternatives have to be of a minimum API spec etc … find the same attached and high lighted in red … (quick edit … these are both 1330cc engines and both 2107 … I would be hard pressed to believe there would be a difference in spec … could you?)

[Highwayman2013]

42A8771E-5A2A-47D5-B72B-E2C8D61D02CA.jpgF733C1FC-1779-4905-A947-800BA80DA2D0.jpg

[fatenhappy]

42A8771E-5A2A-47D5-B72B-E2C8D61D02CA.jpgF733C1FC-1779-4905-A947-800BA80DA2D0.jpg

Totally agree !

[Warlock]

While I have no problem with Amsoil where they can get you is stated a 5w40 rated oil and you are installing a 10w40. They are slick on their wording. I know and you know the difference between the 2 is a hill of beans. But in a law suit they will win based just on the 5w40 vs 10w40.
David

[Easy Rider]

Metric is Amsoil's name for the oil to distinguish it from their "V-twin" oil. I think it's a subtle way to say it's for Japanese and European bikes, not American made ones.

Close. It is an IMPROPER descriptive labeling to distinguish the lighter weight oil intended for water cooled bikes from the heavier stuff intended for air cooled engines. All V-twins are NOT air cooled and therefore do NOT need the heavier oil.

Mobil 1 does the same stupid thing.

[Easy Rider]

But in a law suit they will win based just on the 5w40 vs 10w40.
David

Pure speculation.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that in advance.

[BajaRon]

While I have no problem with Amsoil where they can get you is stated a 5w40 rated oil and you are installing a 10w40. They are slick on their wording. I know and you know the difference between the 2 is a hill of beans. But in a law suit they will win based just on the 5w40 vs 10w40.
David

I understand your point. And I am sure they would bring this up if a situation went to court. But the reality is. It would be impossible to prove that the 5w difference made any difference in protection because it wouldn't. It is interesting that the same V-Twin Rotax engine used in the Aprilia motorcycle recommends a 20w-50 oil.

Originally, before BRP consolidated their oil line to where basically 2 lubricants cover everything from snowmobiles to watercraft, that the recommended viscosity for the Spyder was 10w-40.

If you are leaving your Spyder outside in sub-zero temps overnight, then yes, you may want a 5w-40 or even 0w-40 lubricant. (Though a true synthetic oil like Amsoil will lubricate better at low temps than a comparable weight 'Blended' mineral oil with an additive package, which is the BRP product).

But who among us have Spyders that sit overnight in sub-zero temps? For most, if not all of us, a 10w-40 oil is a better fit. As the extremely low start-up viscosity is not necessary and a narrower span between the low and high numbers makes for a more stable and longer lasting oil.

I am not against using BRP lubricants. What I am opposed to is the purposeful misrepresentation and sometimes customer intimidation over warranty coverage. I understand the dealership wanting to promote and sell their products. But seriously! The truth should suffice. The customer is entitled to the truth. And though this may not always help to sell your product. It does allow a person to make an informed decision about how best to protect their investment.

[Chupaca]

In all the years ,and it has been many, I have never had or seen an engine failure due to motor oil. Nor have I had a warranty denied even with the suspicion that it was caused by the oil. Now clutches on the other hand I have seen quite a few especiially when "Slick 50" and other moly products came out. It would be the dealers claim more than BRP and they do not like you to bring your own product if they sell the same products. Could also just be a poorly informed tech...

[KX5062]

Personally. I don't think Amsoil's use of 'Metric' is anything more than marketing. It makes the Metric people feel special while still having products that appear to cater to the Harley, Victory, Indian, etc., crowd.

Actually the major difference is that HD and alike (including the older BMW boxer bikes) have a separate oil for the engine and transmission, and in HD's case a separate oil reservoir for the engine, transmission, and clutch/primary change drive.

[BajaRon]

Actually the major difference is that HD and alike (including the older BMW boxer bikes) have a separate oil for the engine and transmission, and in HD's case a separate oil reservoir for the engine, transmission, and clutch/primary change drive.

Good point. And you can add air cooled to many of them as well.

Certainly there are differences. Higher viscosity if nothing else. Yet all of the 'V-Twin' Amsoil products feature wet clutch compatibility which creates an unnecessary price increase if it were truly only for the compartmentalized motorcycles.

Just my possibly wrong opinion that I think marketing has taken into account the ego of some who own a certain brand of V-Twin motorcycle.

In the end, it's all good! I just think it a bit amusing at times.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

While I have no problem with Amsoil where they can get you is stated a 5w40 rated oil and you are installing a 10w40. They are slick on their wording. I know and you know the difference between the 2 is a hill of beans. But in a law suit they will win based just on the 5w40 vs 10w40.
David

I don't think so. They would have to prove that the bike was started at temperatures cold enough that the 10w didn't lube as required and as well as the 5w, and that the the 10w didn't lubricate the engine as well as the 5w at operating temps. That would be an awfully long reach for them.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just my possibly wrong opinion that I think marketing has taken into account the ego of some who own a certain brand of V-Twin motorcycle.

In the end, it's all good! I just think it a bit amusing at times.

Maybe they make the distinction so that the owners of American made V-twins don't have to buy an oil made for "rice burners" when they want to use Amsoil!!

[BajaRon]

I don't think so. They would have to prove that the bike was started at temperatures cold enough that the 10w didn't lube as required and as well as the 5w, and that the the 10w didn't lubricate the engine as well as the 5w at operating temps. That would be an awfully long reach for them.

The low number, in this case 5w, only reflects the oils characteristics at cold startup. Other than that. A low number relative to the upper number only indicates a less stable, less able to resist shear and oil degradation than say a 10w-40 or even better, a 15w-40. This is universally true when comparing similar oils. Because it is the modifiers added to the oil that give it the viscosity spread. These additives are not lubricants. And as they break down the oil will change properties.

True synthetic oils, engineered at the molecular level during the refining process, need very little in the way of modifiers. So they tend to be more stable and more able to resist degradation than mineral oils with an additive package.

Once the oil begins to warm, and certainly at operating temperature. A low cold start number is actually a detriment to lubrication and protection. So at operating temps. A 10w-40 will protect better than a 5w-40.

While it is very important to have good lubrication at startup. A true synthetic like Amsoil will flow, lubricate, etc., better than a mineral oil at low temps. Not to mention that a true synthetic stays with metal parts better than a mineral based oil. Which means there is more oil where it needs to be before the engine even starts to turn.

Plus, as I mentioned. Unless your oil temperature has reached sub-zero temps. You don't even need a 0w or 5w oil. I would guess most Spyders don't even see freezing conditions at cold startup. 10w true synthetic oil is good well below freezing.

It is also interesting that no one has chimed in here bewailing the dire issues they have suffered under the scenario we are discussing. Nor have I ever encountered it in real life or any other forum that I visit. I think the reality is that unless you do something really stupid with your oil. It just isn't something the manufacturer can win in court. It's much easier to frighten the customer at the dealership level.

[2dogs]

In some cases it's best not to ask questions you may not want to know the answer to. Just keep you mouth shut and let them think you did if you didn't, or you didn't if you did, and let the other party prove otherwise.