Going From Stock Tires to (Non-OEM) Car Tires?

[newbert]

Sorry for yet another question about tires......

But I'm curious to hear, from those who went from stock to car tires, what differences did you feel (if any) in performance, and how quickly did you notice the difference?. I know that a good car tire should last significantly longer than the stock tires, but what's the effect on things like road feel, smoothness of ride etc? I ask because today I went what for me is a LONG ryde (9 hours and over 400 miles) over all manner of road, and I find that my arms took a beating on rough, pot-holed, roads. Generally speaking, would the ride be smoother and less tiring (no pun intended) over these types of roads, with car tires?

Thanks!

[canamjhb]

The biggest improvement to elevate sore arms is laser alignment. Instead of fighting a misaligned bike you can ride with one hand or a couple of fingers, even at interstate speeds. I can't really give you good advice about switching to CTs because my OEM tires fell apart with tread separation with only a few thousand miles on them. From there, going to CTs was an immediate improvement in every respect.....

[gerald37]

canamjhb is right. It sounds like you need to have the Spyder aligned. I do have car tires on my Spyder and and does ride and handled much better with them. Before I aligned mind it would tire me out riding for any length of time. I have car tires, Centramatic balancers and Bajaron Sway bar and mine handles great and does not tire me out riding at all.

[newbert]

The biggest improvement to elevate sore arms is laser alignment. Instead of fighting a misaligned bike you can ride with one hand or a couple of fingers, even at interstate speeds. I can't really give you good advice about switching to CTs because my OEM tires fell apart with tread separation with only a few thousand miles on them. From there, going to CTs was an immediate improvement in every respect.....

Could you elaborate a bit on what's included in "every respect"?

BTW - I already have the BajaRon swaybar installed and had my spyder laser aligned last September at Spyderquest. Perhaps it's time for another alignment? (Or get car tires installed at the same time as alignment?).

[canamjhb]

By "every respect" I mean that the Spyder handled very poorly in turns, twisties, and especially at highway speeds with the OEM tires that had tread separation. If you have never experienced a 2 or 3 wheel vehicle suffering from tread separation, it is hard to describe. But, I would say it is like driving in the snow, except you're on dry pavement. Very squirly. When I installed the CTs, the improvement was immediate. I now have a vehicle that is predictable and easily handled on the road

[SpyderAnn01]

You probably don’t need another alignment unless you’ve hit something. As I recall aren’t your roads pretty rough? What do you have your rear shock set at? Do you have air in the rear airbag? What tire pressure are you running?

Your back may hurt if you’re reaching for the handlebars or judt because you’re not used to riding 400 miles in a day.

[Navydad]

I will give it a shot. With the stock Kenda's at the recommended pressures I rarely had nanny intervene when cornering. My RT which is aligned and handles great just didn't feel "secure" when pushed hard. At 7000 miles I installed car tires front and rear and with 18 PSI in front and 22 PSI in the rear the handling when pushed in a corner is much improved. So much that nanny and I get together pretty much on every ride. I can push the bike harder with much more confidence than with the stock tires. Example #2 I was heading to North Carolina and got caught in a real frog strangler. I was on a back road with no place to duck into so I continued with caution. The fronts were no problem, but the rear Kenda was hydroplaning something terrible. Again at the recommended pressure. I have been in two nasty rains just this spring with the car tires and no hydroplaning whatsoever. I do slow down when in the rain because it's just the smart thing to do on the RT. I currently have 13,000 miles on this set of car tires and front and rear are wearing very little, but what wear is there is nice and even. As far as ride quality is concerned I never really noticed a harsh ride from the Kenda's, but they are a lighter ply tire. My car tires which are well balanced ride very smoothly at the pressures I mentioned earlier. I bought a used bike recently that had a set of Kenda Challenger tires on it. It took me about 100 miles to get rid of them. I am a rather spirited rider and do tend to push the envelope on my RT and my two wheeled bikes and that may be the problem, but I don't care for Kenda tires. I have come to the conclusion that if I ever have to move a bike that has Kenda tires on it again, I will push it.

[2dogs]

newbert, the short answer to your question is, no. No tire is going to soften pot holes and extremely rough roads that I think you are describing. Every response you received here is good advice. Pay close attention to SpyderAnn01 because she has just about the most amount of miles and experience as anyone else here on the RT and it's handling and performance. I took her advice and put Formoza tires on the front and General Ultramax on the rear of my RT. I certainly didn't experience a life changing improvement, but I did notice a better overall feeling in stability and traction. So much so that I doubt I will ever go back to krapenda (Kenda) tires. I also took BK911's advice and dropped the tire pressure all the way around down to about 17 psi. When they warm up the fronts raise to about 20 psi and the rear will go up to sometimes 22 psi when it's really warm. Good luck with your change over to car tires if that's what you end up doing. Tire rack has good prices, just don't tell them what you're going to do with their tires or they won't sell them to you. I can't confirm that they won't, but I've just heard here that they won't.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I will give it a shot. With the stock Kenda's at the recommended pressures I rarely had nanny intervene when cornering. My RT which is aligned and handles great just didn't feel "secure" when pushed hard. At 7000 miles I installed car tires front and rear and with 18 PSI in front and 22 PSI in the rear the handling when pushed in a corner is much improved. So much that nanny and I get together pretty much on every ride. I can push the bike harder with much more confidence than with the stock tires. Example #2 I was heading to North Carolina and got caught in a real frog strangler. I was on a back road with no place to duck into so I continued with caution. The fronts were no problem, but the rear Kenda was hydroplaning something terrible. Again at the recommended pressure. I have been in two nasty rains just this spring with the car tires and no hydroplaning whatsoever. I do slow down when in the rain because it's just the smart thing to do on the RT. I currently have 13,000 miles on this set of car tires and front and rear are wearing very little, but what wear is there is nice and even. As far as ride quality is concerned I never really noticed a harsh ride from the Kenda's, but they are a lighter ply tire. My car tires which are well balanced ride very smoothly at the pressures I mentioned earlier. I bought a used bike recently that had a set of Kenda Challenger tires on it. It took me about 100 miles to get rid of them. I am a rather spirited rider and do tend to push the envelope on my RT and my two wheeled bikes and that may be the problem, but I don't care for Kenda tires. I have come to the conclusion that if I ever have to move a bike that has Kenda tires on it again, I will push it.

You sound like you have a good grasp of the whole Kenda vs. car tire thing .....please try 15 psi front and 18 psi rear , the sidewalls of the car tires will work much better at those psi's....the traction will be better and since the tire will be more compliant the ride will be more comfortable ..... I really know about this subject and would NEVER suggest something that could Hurt you ..... but be aware your speed in the Twistie's could really give the Nanny fits ..... Mike

[UtahPete]

I ask because today I went what for me is a LONG ryde (9 hours and over 400 miles) over all manner of road, and I find that my arms took a beating on rough, pot-holed, roads. Generally speaking, would the ride be smoother and less tiring (no pun intended) over these types of roads, with car tires? Thanks!

The Spyder uses low profile tires. There's not much cushioning from the tires themselves and going to generally stiffer 4 ply car tires isn't likely to help much on bad roads.

400 miles of rutted pot-holed roads would tire most riders I think.

[Chupaca]

Your tire pressure is the best place to start. Your alignment should be fine like Ann said. You have the BajaRon bar so the next would be the shocks...

[KX5062]

I've found that a better tire, ie, car tires do make a difference in ride quality. However, I would recommend Elka shocks up front, or possibly Fox (I don't have any experience with these). The stock OEM shocks are bottom of the line, like all manufacturers on non performance models. The difference to me was dramatically better ride quality and handling. I've also done the Baja Ron sway bar and that I felt was a minor improvement, but others have felt a bigger impact so that's something to consider too.

[DGoebel]

Newbert, My fitbit measures way, WWWAAAYYYY fewer steps per hour of riding since switching to car tires and Mike's pressure settings.
I did a 15 hr ride last year on Kenda's and got 60,000 steps that day, though I was in the saddle all day, My longest ride this year has been about 9 hours and didn't even get 2,000 steps. I'm correlating Fitbit steps very high means more shocks to my wrist while riding, less steps = smoother rides, these were on MN and Iowa interstates and highways which are just now getting pothole repairs.......

[newbert]

Newbert, My fitbit measures way, WWWAAAYYYY fewer steps per hour of riding since switching to car tires and Mike's pressure settings.
I did a 15 hr ride last year on Kenda's and got 60,000 steps that day, though I was in the saddle all day, My longest ride this year has been about 9 hours and didn't even get 2,000 steps. I'm correlating Fitbit steps very high means more shocks to my wrist while riding, less steps = smoother rides, these were on MN and Iowa interstates and highways which are just now getting pothole repairs.......

Now THAT'S (Fitbit) an original way of measuring ride comfort! Thanks for your input.

You probably don’t need another alignment unless you’ve hit something. As I recall aren’t your roads pretty rough? What do you have your rear shock set at? Do you have air in the rear airbag? What tire pressure are you running?

Your back may hurt if you’re reaching for the handlebars or judt because you’re not used to riding 400 miles in a day.

Actually, my back hurts almost all the time (riding or not), so that doesn't help matters either, I guess. And you're certainly correct that I'm not used to riding 400 miles in a day (much of them twisties yesterday). My typical ride is usually 50-100 miles per day.

But I didn't want to give the impression that the roads I rode on were mostly rough - They were not. But there certainly were rough patches. (FWIW, the ride was through NY's Catskill mountains - around a number of reservoirs and many other back roads that I was unfamiliar with.)

Tire pressures are 24-25psi in front (cold) and 28-29psi in rear (cold). Regarding where my rear shock is set at - I don't know. (Never thought about checking it. It's where it was when I drove the Spyder off the dealer's lot.) Same with air in the rear air bag. How do I check these things, and what settings do you recommend? (My Spyder is a 2016 F3-T). Note: When I hit a large-ish dip in the road, I often get a sharp pain in my back, largely because I tend to slouch in the seat.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Newbert, My fitbit measures way, WWWAAAYYYY fewer steps per hour of riding since switching to car tires and Mike's pressure settings.
I did a 15 hr ride last year on Kenda's and got 60,000 steps that day, though I was in the saddle all day, My longest ride this year has been about 9 hours and didn't even get 2,000 steps. I'm correlating Fitbit steps very high means more shocks to my wrist while riding, less steps = smoother rides, these were on MN and Iowa interstates and highways which are just now getting pothole repairs.......

WOW This is a very interesting analysis and way to do it ...... Thanks for adding this to the conversation ..... Mike

[Easy Rider]

and I find that my arms took a beating on rough, pot-holed, roads. Generally speaking, would the ride be smoother and less tiring (no pun intended) over these types of roads, with car tires?

NO. Not on "rough, pot-holed roads".

If anything, a car tire designed for a heavier vehicle......and they ALL are.....would be a bit stiffer.

[Peteoz]

NO. Not on "rough, pot-holed roads".

If anything, a car tire designed for a heavier vehicle......and they ALL are.....would be a bit stiffer.

That’s opposite to what I have actually experienced, Easy Rider.....I have to ride over a 10km, potholed, secondary road to go anywhere from home. My Kuhmos, running at around 18-20 psi, feel definitely softer than the Kendas did at 18 and 26. .....

Pete

[tbjohnson10]

Bought a 2008 RS with 10500 miles on it about a month ago. I only live 1 mile from where I work, but when I take the bike (which has been most mornings) I take the 25 mile scenic route ( have put about 1000miles on it now, doing the same loop--weekends the loop gets extended out quite a bit). Bike came with the original tires still on it. The fronts looked new but the back was getting close-since the date on the fronts was 5007 (50th week of 2007) I bought replacements for the front too. I added a sway bar about a week before the tire change, and it made a huge difference with holding a line and cornering, but once the bike got over 55mph it had quite a vibration that the sway bar didnt get rid of. Tires were wearing evenly, and the bike didnt pull, so figured it wasnt an alignment problem, and once the new tires were put on---> all vibration is gone and its now its just as comfortable to drive at 65-70 as it has been at 45-55, I will also point out that the tires feel more stable at all speeds. Maybe new Kendas would have had a similar effect, but after doing a lot of reading on the forums, I came to the opinion that CT's were the better quality and safety option

[canamjhb]

tbjohnson10
Chances are likely you were experiencing tire failure due to internal tread separation. I have a bit of experience with that. About 10-12 years ago I had a Gold Wing GL1500 which was designed to run on bias ply tires. There was a Chinese company that came out with radial tires for the 1500. Lots of great claims of improved performance. The name of the company was Shinko. After installing I did experience a much better ride......right up until the time the tires developed tread separation. Then it was like the rear tire was bouncing from side to side on a dirt track. Not good. I believe Shinko pulled those tires from the market after a short experiment.


Then, fast forward to last year when I bought my Spyder. I was experiencing the same thing you described. Tires looked OK but handling sucked. The tread separation was not quite as dangerous as on a 2 wheeler, but it was bad. After replacing with CTs all is good..... I guess some get lucky and get some good service from the OEM tires. I was just not one of the lucky ones

[monkeyboymorton]

Tire pressures are 24-25psi in front (cold) and 28-29psi in rear (cold)

I think you're fronts are high and that will make the tires hard. I run 18-20 in the front to make them softer. I did try a higher pressure a couple of years ago and remember some of what you're describing - a sort of 'bobbling' at the front as the tires were bouncing a lot. Caused a lot of handlebar movement that I had to control.

My advice - drop the fronts to 20 and try it then. Be aware though it does drop the ride height a bit so the nose might start catching the ground where it didn't before.

[wrb3004]

I have a F3-L and the owners manual says 15 (+-2). I experimented with 17 and 19 and the handling was very squirrely. I put it back down in the 14-15 range and it handled noticeably better. I plan on putting Federal Formoza's on fairly soon. I put them on my RT and it's amazing how much it smoothed out the ride.

[MikeT]

You sound like you have a good grasp of the whole Kenda vs. car tire thing .....please try 15 psi front and 18 psi rear , the sidewalls of the car tires will work much better at those psi's....the traction will be better and since the tire will be more compliant the ride will be more comfortable ..... I really know about this subject and would NEVER suggest something that could Hurt you ..... but be aware your speed in the Twistie's could really give the Nanny fits ..... Mike

What are your car tire pressure recommendations on a '15 RT Limited that is ridden 2-up 95% of the time (combined weight 350 lbs)
Thanks
Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have a F3-L and the owners manual says 15 (+-2). I experimented with 17 and 19 and the handling was very squirrely. I put it back down in the 14-15 range and it handled noticeably better. I plan on putting Federal Formoza's on fairly soon. I put them on my RT and it's amazing how much it smoothed out the ride.

If you are buying front tires, the Vredestein makes two sizes that will fit the 15" wheel ..... They have very, high performance numbers ..... The Tire Rack has them and will ship this tire to you for FREE , which makes them very attractive from a price standpoint ......... A few here have tried them and liked them a lot ..... Mike ....PS, the tire is the Quatrac 5 model .... pick your width

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What are your car tire pressure recommendations on a '15 RT Limited that is ridden 2-up 95% of the time (combined weight 350 lbs)
Thanks
Mike

Mike , because this tire is rated for about a 1500lb load ..... it can very easily support the added weight you have , using 17-18 psi .........even if you added a fully loaded trl. that tire will still be good at 17-18 psi .........Mike

[newbert]

I think you're fronts are high and that will make the tires hard. I run 18-20 in the front to make them softer. I did try a higher pressure a couple of years ago and remember some of what you're describing - a sort of 'bobbling' at the front as the tires were bouncing a lot. Caused a lot of handlebar movement that I had to control.

My advice - drop the fronts to 20 and try it then. Be aware though it does drop the ride height a bit so the nose might start catching the ground where it didn't before.

I went one better and dropped the fronts to 19. Tried it out for 35 miles and it does seem to help make the overall ride smoother.

Thanks!