Non ethanol in the spyder?

[UtahPete]

Put "real" gasoline in all my vehicles whenever I can. Much better for all. Never could figger out why we are mandated to put food in our fuel tanks.

It's a gift to the corn farmers from Congress. There is no environmental benefit from it from all the studies I've read.

Who knew big corporate farmers needed welfare?

[Easy Rider]

How many 4x4 "dualie" J.D./Intl.'s does he have operating on his farm?

How many vehicles do you have in your garage ?
What difference does THAT make ??

I don't remember. Two I think maybe.
Since he only has 3 people available to run them, more than 3 would be a little stupid.

[Easy Rider]

It's a gift to the corn farmers from Congress. There is no environmental benefit from it from all the studies I've read.

Who knew corn farmers needed corporate welfare?

YOU need to give it up, Pete.

Would you rather to go back to putting MTBE or lead in the gas ?
An oxygenate additive cuts down on some polluting by-product; don't remember which one.

Maybe if you had actually lived on a farm you would have a better understand of what you are talking about.
You certainly don't now.

What did farmers ever do to set you off ?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Time and again I try my best to introduce some rationality into the discussions here only to be ignored, apparently. Is most everyone here only interested in pushing his/her own viewpoint with the attitude of, "My mind's made up. Don't confuse me with the facts!"

Ethanol does not harm fuel systems that are designed to tolerate it.

The energy derived from ethanol is less than an equal volume of petroleum fuel.

Ethanol serves as a more environmentally friendly octane booster.

Manufacturers push and push for more power out of an engine which requires higher octane.

Ethanol serves as a more environmentally friendly octane booster.

I'm not crazy about using corn for fuel but until there is another octane booster invented we are probably stuck with it.

Politics and science both are motivators for the use of ethanol.

The energy required to grow the corn and produce a gallon of ethanol is greater than the energy in the resulting gallon of ethanol. (That's my understanding anyway!)

The solar energy used to grow corn is renewable and never ending. The water extracted from the earth and used to grow corn eventually returns to the earth.

Petroleum extracted from the earth to produce fuel is transformed into all sorts of final products, none of which truly replace the extracted petroleum.

Using petroleum for fuel is good! Using corn for fuel is good! Which one is 'gooder'?

[Mad Mac]

How many vehicles do you have in your garage ?
What difference does THAT make ??

I don't remember. Two I think maybe.
Since he only has 3 people available to run them, more than 3 would be a little stupid.

I don't know but when I'm travelling westward, we see quite a few "farms" that have big AS* four wheel drive tractors that look pretty new and some of them are driven by GPS! When I worked the farm back in the 70's before I went into the service, the farmer that my dad and I worked for had the same tractors for at least 10yrs.(2ea. Massey Fergusons 1100's) and he probably had them a couple of years prior to that, When I pass a field, it appears the tractors I see in use are pretty darn new and I will see 2 or 3 working the same field! I know it is also the "buddy system" were farmers contract out to each other to get more work done, but I know you can't mortgage the farm every year for tractors such as those, somebody has to be making money somewhere or you would not be in the business. That's all I'm say'n.
As a matter of fact, we have 2 vehicles, our truck and our Spyder, that's it and I don't make money with either one. Mac

[Mad Mac]

That would be just great: all of the disadvantages of more expensive fuel that gets moldy, and none of the fun of a high-winding engine!

Where are you going to hide the DEF tank anyway: one of the saddlebags?

Just think Bob, twin TURBO's would really be a BLAST!! But then we would be complaining about the HEAT again! Mac

[gnorthern]

It is, however, a better choice as an octane booster than the alternatives. Here is what I wrote in another thread last year. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...=1#post1316057

I am not so sure about that. My gut says if you took away all the subsidies for corn I suspect ETBE would be a better way to increase octane. I am not a chemist, but I am guessing that is how they create the premium without alcohol, which I am convinced is a superior gasoline.

[gnorthern]

I don't think I've ever met someone who has no interest in preserving the planet. But when something is just about feeling good in the name of 'Planet Rescue' but actually does no good. Or does harm. Then I think it reasonable to oppose it.

I'm not so sure electric vehicles don't fall into this same category. At least the current versions. When you look at the whole picture. Generating and transporting the electricity, mining the rare materials to make the batteries. And the hazardous materials disposal process required for spent batteries to keep it from getting into the environment. It's not as simple as not using fossil fuels in the vehicle.

Unfortunately, when there is money to be made. The 'Facts' can be generated rather than reported.

I have met a lot of people who have no interest in saving the planet. I also understand the "feeling good" stuff. I switched careers but for a while I was forester. As somebody who had a 4 year degree in land management and spent 95% of his time on the job in the woods for ten years, I quietly resented being lectured why my clearcuts were terrible by somebody who occasionally went hiking. Things will be far more conclusive in ten years, so lets be patient.

Unfortunately I got into a discussion with a electric engineer with expertise in the batteries and your concerns about the batteries are legitimate.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I am not so sure about that. My gut says if you took away all the subsidies for corn I suspect ETBE would be a better way to increase octane. I am not a chemist, but I am guessing that is how they create the premium without alcohol, which I am convinced is a superior gasoline.

I wasn't aware of ETBE but it looks good. However, corn subsidies will impact it as ETBE is about 45% ethanol based. I read one place where ETBE is characterized as 'expensive' so the economics of using it apparently are not as favorable as ethanol. Chemically it appears to be superior to ethanol overall. Higher octane fuels like premium gas use carcinogenic additives to boost octane.

Here's an interesting article about the pros and cons of ethanol. https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain.

[Easy Rider]

but I know you can't mortgage the farm every year for tractors such as those, somebody has to be making money somewhere or you would not be in the business. That's all I'm say'n.

You don't "mortgage" the farm, you mortgage the actual equipment.......just like you do if you buy a brand new car.

I grew up on a farm back when the vast majority of them were 200 acres or less.
My Dad had two tractors. Both were at least 20 years old and had been rebuilt at least once.
When it came time to pick corn, you mounted the picker ON one of the tractors and pulled the wagons with the other one.

Our pickup truck was near to 30 years old......until we finally got a new one in 1972. It lasted OVER 30 years.

So.....don't "just say" to me anything about "rich farmers". My brother and I got NO new toys except for birthday and Xmas......if we were lucky.

I'm out of the business now so I don't know but I wonder if the recent tax cuts actually benefited farmers much. I somehow doubt it. It sure benefited other business types A LOT. Why aren't you railing against that ??

Without farmers, you would starve.

[Mad Mac]

Without farmers, you would starve.

Nah, I hunt! Mac

[Easy Rider]

Nah, I hunt! Mac

Right. Suddenly thousands of people trying to live off of squirrels, rabbits and deer.
That should last at least a couple of days.

[UtahPete]

Right. Suddenly thousands of people trying to live off of squirrels, rabbits and deer. That should last at least a couple of days.

Yeah, where would humankind be if corporate farms never existed....

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Yeah, where would humankind be if corporate farms never existed....

Probably healthier, if you're one of the ones who didn't starve to death!