feeling unstable

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

A lot of good ideas from experienced folks. I tried all the above and gave it 15k but my copilot and I never felt comfortable on the tricycle . We returned to a wing and are comfy again. Spyder had a lot of good features but it's not the magic bullet for everybody so if it isn't working for you move on.

fjray, I for one commend you for staying around the forum and not trash talking Spyders even if it didn't work out for you! Thanks. Just like tractor style and ZTR lawn mowers. What works for many does not work for all.

[No 2817]

My first ride on my GS I thought I was going to fall off. With my first "two up" ride we went up on tree lawn (front yard for some of you). Its a new animal all together you have to learn its ride. The Spyder is not like any other machine you have ever ridden. (some liken it to snowmobile and a four wheeler) Just like when you fist got on a Two Wheeler you had to learn to lean in corners. You can trust the "nanny" a little. I went into a corner what the nanny thought was too hot and it did its thing braking and correcting. Ride the Ride.

Chris

[fjray]

fjray, I for one commend you for staying around the forum and not trash talking Spyders even if it didn't work out for you! Thanks. Just like tractor style and ZTR lawn mowers. What works for many does not work for all.

No reason to trash the machine. I'm the one that bought it with both eyes open. I have said that if I had rented one for a weekend I probably would not have bought it but that's past history. There are a few things that I have issues with but I'm not the engineer. I would like to see a hand brake standard, a faster starting sequence and a proper frame mounted trailer hitch. The handling is always going to be what it is but I still have the need to lean in the corners and for myself I can carry a lot more corner speed on the wing than I ever could on the spyder.

[canamjhb]

No reason to trash the machine. I'm the one that bought it with both eyes open. I have said that if I had rented one for a weekend I probably would not have bought it but that's past history. There are a few things that I have issues with but I'm not the engineer. I would like to see a hand brake standard, a faster starting sequence and a proper frame mounted trailer hitch. The handling is always going to be what it is but I still have the need to lean in the corners and for myself I can carry a lot more corner speed on the wing than I ever could on the spyder.

I agree. I still ride both Spyder and Wing. I can still outride myself on the Wing -vs- Spyder. But then I have been riding Wings for over 30 years and Spyders for one. It took me lots of time, miles, reading, and experimenting before becoming comfortable with the riding style I described in my previous post. I doubt I will ever be able to cruise the twisties as comfortably and quickly on the Spyder. But I am more comfortable on the Spyder when just cruising around town, in inclement weather, high winds, unpaved parking lots, group rides with other 3 wheelers, and riding in shorts and T-shirt on a warm day. To me the Spyder just brings a different facet of riding enjoyment. My advice to the OP is to try different styles as suggested here. Find what works for you best and enjoy the ride.....

[Alwaysonwheels]

The stability is even better as a paraplegic. The greatest help was the laser alignment as then I could focus on me and not fight the bike. Just put on many miles it gets better.

[Mad Mac]

The stability is even better as a paraplegic. The greatest help was the laser alignment as then I could focus on me and not fight the bike. Just put on many miles it gets better.

Anybody that's not in a similar condition as yourself, has no reason to complain about the handling of a Spyder. My hat's off to you. Many a safe and enjoyable mile to you. YOU GO MAN!! Mac

[gerald37]

I agree. I still ride both Spyder and Wing. I can still outride myself on the Wing -vs- Spyder. But then I have been riding Wings for over 30 years and Spyders for one. It took me lots of time, miles, reading, and experimenting before becoming comfortable with the riding style I described in my previous post. I doubt I will ever be able to cruise the twisties as comfortably and quickly on the Spyder. But I am more comfortable on the Spyder when just cruising around town, in inclement weather, high winds, unpaved parking lots, group rides with other 3 wheelers, and riding in shorts and T-shirt on a warm day. To me the Spyder just brings a different facet of riding enjoyment. My advice to the OP is to try different styles as suggested here. Find what works for you best and enjoy the ride.....

I have been riding motorcycles now for 60 years. I have put about 10,000 miles on my 2015 Spyder RT in about 5 months of riding time and came off a 2015 Gold Wing F6B and I can say I can corner and ride twisties just as well on the Spyder as my F6B. It took me some riding to learn and you better have good tires and have it well aligned. It is different and now I would rather ride the Spyder than any Gold Wing. For two wheels I would go to a BMW Bagger.

[Lurker]

Many of us have had this same experience. There are a number of things you can do to your Spyder to make it handle like a go-cart. It is actually pretty amazing how much difference a few changes can make. Especially if you are riding 2 up.

This is the reason I started making the sway bar kit. I was very impressed by how it stabilized my Spyder in a number of ways. Not just in the curves as I'd expected. But in strong cross winds, when passing large semi's on the freeway, and more.

Upgraded shocks will also give you greater control over the Spyder.

Laser Alignment can also make a great deal of difference.

Don't give up. Your dream ride may be just a mod or 2 away!

Sway bar is a good option as it will hold the trike more level during cornering. Try using a stiff arm for turning, meaning instead of just turning the bars lock or semi lock your outside elbow, this will help eliminate the feeling of flying off.
I would not recommend alignment as a cure as the only alignment that can be done is a toe adjustment which does not affect handling only tire wear. This is more of a mental adjustment than a physical one.
Also learn to relax as once you feel confident the little quirks will fade away.
Once you master it an RT type trike will run with the best cruisers or tour bike and in general outperform them all especially on unpaved and back country roads.

I design reverse trikes for a living and this is not an uncommon concern you have.

[PMK]

I would not recommend alignment as a cure as the only alignment that can be done is a toe adjustment which does not affect handling only tire wear. This is more of a mental adjustment than a physical one.

I design reverse trikes for a living and this is not an uncommon concern you have.

Wheel alignment, especially toe setting is very relevant in how any vehicle handles. Yes it will afeect tire wear also.

A vehicle with toe out is less inherently directionally stable and suffers from the ability to return to centered unless assisted by the driver.

Additionally, as you corner a toed out vehicle, the outside tire will transition from pointed away from the corners inside radius, to neutral followed by snapping to pointed inward towards the corners inside radius.

The inside wheel almost imediately is pointed towards the corners inside radius. These transitions, especially in a wide radius turn give an unstable wandering feel.

A vehicle with proper toe in setting will enter the corner where the outside wheel is already pointed towards the corners inside radius. The inside wheel again transitions quickly on account of Ackerman effect, providing stable smooth control through corners.

Adding insult to injury, the Spyders very basic steering and front suspension design suffers from bump steer toe out. So, as you enter a corner, and weight is applied to the outside wheel, the tendency is for the wheel to point away from the corner, adding further instability.

Heavier riders tend to generate more toe out via bump steer.

Honestly, the alignment specs will vary from exact when comparing a heavy rider, light rider, or designed typical riders weight.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Wheel alignment, especially toe setting is very relevant in how any vehicle handles. Yes it will afeect tire wear also.

A vehicle with toe out is less inherently directionally stable and suffers from the ability to return to centered unless assisted by the driver.

Additionally, as you corner a toed out vehicle, the outside tire will transition from pointed away from the corners inside radius, to neutral followed by snapping to pointed inward towards the corners inside radius.

The inside wheel almost imediately is pointed towards the corners inside radius. These transitions, especially in a wide radius turn give an unstable wandering feel.

I'm going to say that is all true, except for an ATV. Last year I changed out the tie rod ends on my Honda Foreman ATV. Naturally, I set the tires for some toe-in. When I took it for a ride around the neighborhood it was squirrely as h*** in turns. After repeated changes I finally found the best handling was with a fair amount of toe-out. When I mentioned this to my brother he said he looked at a side-by-side at a dealership. When he told the guys it looked like the tires were toed out they said that was how they needed to be.

Why?

[PMK]

I'm going to say that is all true, except for an ATV. Last year I changed out the tie rod ends on my Honda Foreman ATV. Naturally, I set the tires for some toe-in. When I took it for a ride around the neighborhood it was squirrely as h*** in turns. After repeated changes I finally found the best handling was with a fair amount of toe-out. When I mentioned this to my brother he said he looked at a side-by-side at a dealership. When he told the guys it looked like the tires were toed out they said that was how they needed to be.

Why?

4 x 4? Sometimes they prefer different setup than 4 x 2. Also amount of balloon shape of the tires has an effect.

Keeping the topic focused on asphalt driven, front steer, but not driven type front ends.

Often race car setup will favor slight toe out for circuit track setup, simply because it has the inside wheel already turned in to provide a fastener transition and rotation. These are traits counterproductive for a Spyder.

[jnt]

++1 for Ron’s comment. We also did the laser alignment. WORLD of difference! Now I can dive into corners as good as I used to on my Beemers.

Tire pressure also makes a huge difference. Start at 18 psi in the fronts. 28 rear.

[Peteoz]

++1 for Ron’s comment. We also did the laser alignment. WORLD of difference! Now I can dive into corners as good as I used to on my Beemers.

Tire pressure also makes a huge difference. Start at 18 psi in the fronts. 28 rear.

Are you running Kenda or aftermarket, jnt?

Pete

[JimKari]

Honda Neowing.jpgWith regards to the Spyder F3 can I switch the flat profile rear tire for a rounded one if available and setup the front/rear suspension with adjustable Elka shocks so the entire bike can lean into the corners. Honda came out with a Neowing prototype that offered this design but I don't see why this can't be adapted to the Spyder.

[ARtraveler]

Honda Neowing.jpgWith regards to the Spyder F3 can I switch the flat profile rear tire for a rounded one if available and setup the front/rear suspension with adjustable Elka shocks so the entire bike can lean into the corners. Honda came out with a Neowing prototype that offered this design but I don't see why this can't be adapted to the Spyder.

and on your first post.

If you can get it figured out--a lot of people would be interested. I am guessing big bucks for those mods in order to get everything right and in compliance with safety standards.

[Easy Rider]

so the entire bike can lean into the corners. .

NO. It takes a LOT more than that.

[spydernatic]

So what if you just changed the front shocks to stage 2 Elkas would that make a big difference to the stability I rode a 2012 RT for 5 years and had the front shocks set up perfectly for my style of aggressive riding and felt very confident even with 2 up, my 2017 RT is so wishy washy (if that is a word) that I do not feel as confident as with my 2012 which by the way had adjustable front shocks.
I want to improve the stability of the ride and I am wondering if I should go ahead and order the Elkas

[gerald37]

Honda Neowing.jpgWith regards to the Spyder F3 can I switch the flat profile rear tire for a rounded one if available and setup the front/rear suspension with adjustable Elka shocks so the entire bike can lean into the corners. Honda came out with a Neowing prototype that offered this design but I don't see why this can't be adapted to the Spyder.

To me it would not be a Spyder. I have rode motorcycles for over sixty years and loved the leaning into corners and do miss that. After learning how to ride the Spyder and putting car tires on it and good alignment I enjoy riding it just as much as I did two wheels. I will never say I don't miss a two wheel motorcycle but with my age I just felt I would be better off with three wheels. Where I really appreciate it is in the city stopping and going not having to put my feet down and holding the bike up. Long touring trips I think I will miss the two wheel touring bike. I have rode a lot of 700 miles a day on two wheels and have never rode over three hundred a day on my Spyder. I will fine out this summer.

[Mikey]

Many of us have had this same experience. There are a number of things you can do to your Spyder to make it handle like a go-cart. It is actually pretty amazing how much difference a few changes can make. Especially if you are riding 2 up.

This is the reason I started making the sway bar kit. I was very impressed by how it stabilized my Spyder in a number of ways. Not just in the curves as I'd expected. But in strong cross winds, when passing large semi's on the freeway, and more.

Upgraded shocks will also give you greater control over the Spyder.

Laser Alignment can also make a great deal of difference.

Don't give up. Your dream ride may be just a mod or 2 away!

I just put the bar on, love it now I got to find some one in Maine that will do the laser alignment!!

[BazF]

I got my new F3 about 3 months ago. Asked the dealer to check alignment and he said no need it has been aligned.
Not too happy with the handling/cornering (especially on right hand bends) so I did my own laser alignment 2 days ago.
Left side was toed out 2mm, right side was toed in 4mm.
I adjusted to 1.5mm toe in both sides and I have a new ride. Unbelievable difference.

BTW, the inside lock nut on the left side is almost impossible to reach, without special tool. I removed the frunk and the battery and had easy access.

[gerald37]

I got my new F3 about 3 months ago. Asked the dealer to check alignment and he said no need it has been aligned.
Not too happy with the handling/cornering (especially on right hand bends) so I did my own laser alignment 2 days ago.
Left side was toed out 2mm, right side was toed in 4mm.
I adjusted to 1.5mm toe in both sides and I have a new ride. Unbelievable difference.

BTW, the inside lock nut on the left side is almost impossible to reach, without special tool. I removed the frunk and the battery and had easy access.

I found the same. After I aligned my 2015 RT it made one big change in handling. I did the same as you and purchased two good lasers and made my own stands and did my own alignment. Installed car tires and installed centralmatic
balance rs from Lamonster Garage. It handles so well I have not purchased the sway bar as yet but am thinking about it. I just cannot see how it could improved it any.

I agree with you on the inside lock nut on the left side. I was able to loosen the inside lock nut but it was hard.

[Easy Rider]

I have a new ride. Unbelievable difference.

Could you be a bit more specific, please ?
A LOT of folks say that but without details.
What was the "problem" before and how is it better now ??

[Lew L]

Like thousands of other owners---- my handles great. Smooth and steady, no pulling or drifting out of the lane. Fast in the corners if I want to. It has Doc's spring stiffeners, anti-sway bar, General car tire at 19 # cold, and proper wheel alignment/balance. I've activated nanny a few times and found that smooth inputs really do help.

In higher speed turns, I believe a good technique is:

Push on the peg/floorboard with the outside foot.
Bend the inside elbow and lean forward and to the inside of the turn. I sometimes ( really fast) slide over to the inside of the seat.
Brace body with inside knee against the"tank".

I know it seems like a dance---- but watching a fast 2 wheeler on a very curvy road is a exercise of fluidity in motion.

Lew L

[BazF]

Easy Rider, I am 70+ rider of two wheelers.
On my F3 I just wasn't comfortable cornering (particularly right bends). Spyder seemed to wander about the road and I found myself fighting it. Hard work.
I went through all the usual things, light touch (where possible), tyre pressures, looking ahead. All the recommended moves with no improvement.
After alignment, smooth steady cornering, my right hand bends are much better, smoother relaxing ride all around. Enjoyable riding.
I have standard tyres all round, 18psi front, 28 psi rear and standard suspension/sway bar.
Enough detail?

[Bob Denman]

After putting some miles on my 2018 RT-L: it definitely feels "twitchy" at speeds...
So When Ron gets back in his garage: that'll be my next stop!
The bike already has BajaRon's anti-swaybar, and that made a HUGE difference in how the bike corners!