feeling unstable

[SailnDive]

We had a great ride yesterday! But I have to admit that I still feel some uneasiness when cornering with the Spyder. I'm much more secure on my 2 wheeler Shadow in the corners. I've ridden the Spyder enough now that I would hope that this feeling would have gone away. I end up cornering way slower than I would with the 2 wheeler. I drove formula racing cars for years so I am comfortable in corners right on the edge control...but not on the Spyder. I guess I can partially attribute this to old age. I'm also a skydiver that has severe fear of heights when I don't have a chute on. Never while making a jump from a plane or BASE. We plan to ride a lot this summer and I want it to be stress free.

[BajaRon]

Many of us have had this same experience. There are a number of things you can do to your Spyder to make it handle like a go-cart. It is actually pretty amazing how much difference a few changes can make. Especially if you are riding 2 up.

This is the reason I started making the sway bar kit. I was very impressed by how it stabilized my Spyder in a number of ways. Not just in the curves as I'd expected. But in strong cross winds, when passing large semi's on the freeway, and more.

Upgraded shocks will also give you greater control over the Spyder.

Laser Alignment can also make a great deal of difference.

Don't give up. Your dream ride may be just a mod or 2 away!

[SailnDive]

I have your Sway bar Ron. It did help.

[yellow peril]

I too had the problem with cornering. I rode two wheels for close to fifty years and I found that I had to stay away from riding the two wheels because old traits of riding came back and they just don't work with the spyder. I have about 2500 miles on the one I bought and still sometimes try to use the old riding habits, not only in the corners but with braking and shifting. I have a SE-5 so no shift lever,no brake lever.
Give it time and things will begin to be better. Its hard to break old habits.
dave

[Mazo EMS2]

Everything suggested....and....experiment with tire pressures as well. Make sure those fronts are as close to being the same as you can get 'em. Everyone has their opinion on pressures, because that's where they find the "sweet spot" for THEM. I try different pressures every couple months just to see how the Spyder reacts. For my first ride...today actually, I have my fronts at 18.5psi and the rear at 25psi. Another thing is grip, and of course the urge to lean. You still lean on the Spyder, but I find that using my feet is just as important. Don't forget to push down with that outside foot in the corners, as it will give YOU a more stable feeling. Just a couple other things to ponder while ya ride.....

[TIMMB]

Steer with your palms don't grip with your hands! The difference is amazing. One hand not fighting the other even though you're not consciously doing that. Always look through the corner where you want to be not where you are. The two biggest things that will make you smoother and faster

[Mad Mac]

After riding M/C's for 47+ years, I had a little issue with the handling of the Spyder. I found myself going into a corner and throwing my weight into it like I would a bike, and yes I have "dragged a few knees" in corners in my time, what I found that helped me out, was to look way ahead in the turn and adjust my lean/grip accordingly, plus adding throttle more smoothly, helps the transition. I had a heck of a time getting use to the "throttle-by-wire" system, to me , they don't have a lot of "feel", until you get used to them. It does not take as much effort as one might think, to turn a Spyder. I have a few years of riding a snowmobile, so that helped me out also. I have Ron's sway-bar and it has helped immensely when 2-up. Good luck and give it time, it will all fall into place sooner than you think. Mac

[Lurker]

Many of us have had this same experience. There are a number of things you can do to your Spyder to make it handle like a go-cart. It is actually pretty amazing how much difference a few changes can make. Especially if you are riding 2 up.

This is the reason I started making the sway bar kit. I was very impressed by how it stabilized my Spyder in a number of ways. Not just in the curves as I'd expected. But in strong cross winds, when passing large semi's on the freeway, and more.

Upgraded shocks will also give you greater control over the Spyder.

Laser Alignment can also make a great deal of difference.

Don't give up. Your dream ride may be just a mod or 2 away!

Sway bar is a good option as it will hold the trike more level during cornering. Try using a stiff arm for turning, meaning instead of just turning the bars lock or semi lock your outside elbow, this will help eliminate the feeling of flying off.
I would not recommend alignment as a cure as the only alignment that can be done is a toe adjustment which does not affect handling only tire wear. This is more of a mental adjustment than a physical one.
Also learn to relax as once you feel confident the little quirks will fade away.
Once you master it an RT type trike will run with the best cruisers or tour bike and in general outperform them all especially on unpaved and back country roads.

I design reverse trikes for a living and this is not an uncommon concern you have.

[PMK]

I would not recommend alignment as a cure as the only alignment that can be done is a toe adjustment which does not affect handling only tire wear. This is more of a mental adjustment than a physical one.

I design reverse trikes for a living and this is not an uncommon concern you have.

Wheel alignment, especially toe setting is very relevant in how any vehicle handles. Yes it will afeect tire wear also.

A vehicle with toe out is less inherently directionally stable and suffers from the ability to return to centered unless assisted by the driver.

Additionally, as you corner a toed out vehicle, the outside tire will transition from pointed away from the corners inside radius, to neutral followed by snapping to pointed inward towards the corners inside radius.

The inside wheel almost imediately is pointed towards the corners inside radius. These transitions, especially in a wide radius turn give an unstable wandering feel.

A vehicle with proper toe in setting will enter the corner where the outside wheel is already pointed towards the corners inside radius. The inside wheel again transitions quickly on account of Ackerman effect, providing stable smooth control through corners.

Adding insult to injury, the Spyders very basic steering and front suspension design suffers from bump steer toe out. So, as you enter a corner, and weight is applied to the outside wheel, the tendency is for the wheel to point away from the corner, adding further instability.

Heavier riders tend to generate more toe out via bump steer.

Honestly, the alignment specs will vary from exact when comparing a heavy rider, light rider, or designed typical riders weight.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Wheel alignment, especially toe setting is very relevant in how any vehicle handles. Yes it will afeect tire wear also.

A vehicle with toe out is less inherently directionally stable and suffers from the ability to return to centered unless assisted by the driver.

Additionally, as you corner a toed out vehicle, the outside tire will transition from pointed away from the corners inside radius, to neutral followed by snapping to pointed inward towards the corners inside radius.

The inside wheel almost imediately is pointed towards the corners inside radius. These transitions, especially in a wide radius turn give an unstable wandering feel.

I'm going to say that is all true, except for an ATV. Last year I changed out the tie rod ends on my Honda Foreman ATV. Naturally, I set the tires for some toe-in. When I took it for a ride around the neighborhood it was squirrely as h*** in turns. After repeated changes I finally found the best handling was with a fair amount of toe-out. When I mentioned this to my brother he said he looked at a side-by-side at a dealership. When he told the guys it looked like the tires were toed out they said that was how they needed to be.

Why?

[PMK]

I'm going to say that is all true, except for an ATV. Last year I changed out the tie rod ends on my Honda Foreman ATV. Naturally, I set the tires for some toe-in. When I took it for a ride around the neighborhood it was squirrely as h*** in turns. After repeated changes I finally found the best handling was with a fair amount of toe-out. When I mentioned this to my brother he said he looked at a side-by-side at a dealership. When he told the guys it looked like the tires were toed out they said that was how they needed to be.

Why?

4 x 4? Sometimes they prefer different setup than 4 x 2. Also amount of balloon shape of the tires has an effect.

Keeping the topic focused on asphalt driven, front steer, but not driven type front ends.

Often race car setup will favor slight toe out for circuit track setup, simply because it has the inside wheel already turned in to provide a fastener transition and rotation. These are traits counterproductive for a Spyder.

[UtahPete]

Sway bar is a good option as it will hold the trike more level during cornering. Try using a stiff arm for turning, meaning instead of just turning the bars lock or semi lock your outside elbow, this will help eliminate the feeling of flying off.
I would not recommend alignment as a cure as the only alignment that can be done is a toe adjustment which does not affect handling only tire wear. This is more of a mental adjustment than a physical one.
Also learn to relax as once you feel confident the little quirks will fade away.
Once you master it an RT type trike will run with the best cruisers or tour bike and in general outperform them all especially on unpaved and back country roads.

I design reverse trikes for a living and this is not an uncommon concern you have.

Welcome to the forum. Your knowledge is invaluable. Agree with you on every point.

[Highwayman2013]

Sway bar is a good option as it will hold the trike more level during cornering. Try using a stiff arm for turning, meaning instead of just turning the bars lock or semi lock your outside elbow, this will help eliminate the feeling of flying off.
I would not recommend alignment as a cure as the only alignment that can be done is a toe adjustment which does not affect handling only tire wear. This is more of a mental adjustment than a physical one.
Also learn to relax as once you feel confident the little quirks will fade away.
Once you master it an RT type trike will run with the best cruisers or tour bike and in general outperform them all especially on unpaved and back country roads.

I design reverse trikes for a living and this is not an uncommon concern you have.

I disagree with toe in not affecting handling. Our 2012 RTL had very erratic (twitchy) handling until it was aligned, it had toe out on both front wheels. Toe in-out does more then cause tire wear.

[Bob Denman]

He agrees with you!

marty-feldman.jpg

[Mikey]

Many of us have had this same experience. There are a number of things you can do to your Spyder to make it handle like a go-cart. It is actually pretty amazing how much difference a few changes can make. Especially if you are riding 2 up.

This is the reason I started making the sway bar kit. I was very impressed by how it stabilized my Spyder in a number of ways. Not just in the curves as I'd expected. But in strong cross winds, when passing large semi's on the freeway, and more.

Upgraded shocks will also give you greater control over the Spyder.

Laser Alignment can also make a great deal of difference.

Don't give up. Your dream ride may be just a mod or 2 away!

I just put the bar on, love it now I got to find some one in Maine that will do the laser alignment!!

[BazF]

I got my new F3 about 3 months ago. Asked the dealer to check alignment and he said no need it has been aligned.
Not too happy with the handling/cornering (especially on right hand bends) so I did my own laser alignment 2 days ago.
Left side was toed out 2mm, right side was toed in 4mm.
I adjusted to 1.5mm toe in both sides and I have a new ride. Unbelievable difference.

BTW, the inside lock nut on the left side is almost impossible to reach, without special tool. I removed the frunk and the battery and had easy access.

[gerald37]

I got my new F3 about 3 months ago. Asked the dealer to check alignment and he said no need it has been aligned.
Not too happy with the handling/cornering (especially on right hand bends) so I did my own laser alignment 2 days ago.
Left side was toed out 2mm, right side was toed in 4mm.
I adjusted to 1.5mm toe in both sides and I have a new ride. Unbelievable difference.

BTW, the inside lock nut on the left side is almost impossible to reach, without special tool. I removed the frunk and the battery and had easy access.

I found the same. After I aligned my 2015 RT it made one big change in handling. I did the same as you and purchased two good lasers and made my own stands and did my own alignment. Installed car tires and installed centralmatic
balance rs from Lamonster Garage. It handles so well I have not purchased the sway bar as yet but am thinking about it. I just cannot see how it could improved it any.

I agree with you on the inside lock nut on the left side. I was able to loosen the inside lock nut but it was hard.

[Easy Rider]

I have a new ride. Unbelievable difference.

Could you be a bit more specific, please ?
A LOT of folks say that but without details.
What was the "problem" before and how is it better now ??

[Lew L]

Like thousands of other owners---- my handles great. Smooth and steady, no pulling or drifting out of the lane. Fast in the corners if I want to. It has Doc's spring stiffeners, anti-sway bar, General car tire at 19 # cold, and proper wheel alignment/balance. I've activated nanny a few times and found that smooth inputs really do help.

In higher speed turns, I believe a good technique is:

Push on the peg/floorboard with the outside foot.
Bend the inside elbow and lean forward and to the inside of the turn. I sometimes ( really fast) slide over to the inside of the seat.
Brace body with inside knee against the"tank".

I know it seems like a dance---- but watching a fast 2 wheeler on a very curvy road is a exercise of fluidity in motion.

Lew L

[UtahPete]

We had a great ride yesterday! But I have to admit that I still feel some uneasiness when cornering with the Spyder. I'm much more secure on my 2 wheeler Shadow in the corners. I've ridden the Spyder enough now that I would hope that this feeling would have gone away. I end up cornering way slower than I would with the 2 wheeler. I drove formula racing cars for years so I am comfortable in corners right on the edge control...but not on the Spyder. I guess I can partially attribute this to old age. I'm also a skydiver that has severe fear of heights when I don't have a chute on. Never while making a jump from a plane or BASE. We plan to ride a lot this summer and I want it to be stress free.

I don't know which machine you have. We have two 2014 RTs. Bone stock, my RT can be pushed through corners with a lot more confidence than you would think. I've chased 2-wheelers and aggressively-driven Spyders through the twisties much faster than I would have thought possible. The limitation is in your head, not your bike.

[RedRockSpyder]

Just got back from our first ride of the season. Last year after purchasing our RT Limited in the early fall we rode about 1000 miles before winter. We live in Southern Utah at 7500’. I was always uncomfortable in the curves...It got better, but I hoped With more miles I’d feel more comfortable. Over the winter I bought a few accessories including a Ron Jon sway bar and foam grips. Don’t have the bar installed yet..but the grips made a ​huge difference today!. No more death grip and it’s more natural to have a soft touch. Can’t wait to install the sway bar. Looking forward to a great Southern Utah season!

[Fat Baxter]

Physically leaning on a Spyder is not unique -- sidecar pilots have to lean, too. So think of your Spyder as a sidecar rig but with symmetrical thrust and braking. (On a side car rig, the sidecar, when starting from a rest, tends to pull the rig to the right due to inertia, and under braking, wants to stay in motion and pulls the rig to the left.) And because of the weight distribution, a sidecar pilot has to lean a lot.

The one thing I found that really improved the ride was a new set of front tires. I put some Kuhmo's on, and the difference was dramatic!!!!! I'm talking day-and-night different! Browse through the (very) numerous tire threads on this site, and you'll find near-universal agreement that the stock Kendas are horrible. I don't know if Kenda ever got its act together, but when I bought my new 2014, the fronts had a reputation for being out-of-round and belt separations, while the rear was renown for short life. And almost any tire you buy will be less than what the dealer charges for Kendas. My experience with new tires was so profound that I recommend you not wait for the stock tires to wear out, but to replace them as soon as you can. Why prolong the misery of riding with crappy tires?

[gerald37]

Physically leaning on a Spyder is not unique -- sidecar pilots have to lean, too. So think of your Spyder as a sidecar rig but with symmetrical thrust and braking. (On a side car rig, the sidecar, when starting from a rest, tends to pull the rig to the right due to inertia, and under braking, wants to stay in motion and pulls the rig to the left.) And because of the weight distribution, a sidecar pilot has to lean a lot.

The one thing I found that really improved the ride was a new set of front tires. I put some Kuhmo's on, and the difference was dramatic!!!!! I'm talking day-and-night different! Browse through the (very) numerous tire threads on this site, and you'll find near-universal agreement that the stock Kendas are horrible. I don't know if Kenda ever got its act together, but when I bought my new 2014, the fronts had a reputation for being out-of-round and belt separations, while the rear was renown for short life. And almost any tire you buy will be less than what the dealer charges for Kendas. My experience with new tires was so profound that I recommend you not wait for the stock tires to wear out, but to replace them as soon as you can. Why prolong the misery of riding with crappy tires?

You are sure right on the tires. I think that is where a lot of problems come from. Maybe some of the Kenda's are better than others but I put on Federals and they really balanced up well. I have a General on the rear with the Centralmatic balance-er. I do have the Centralmatic balance-er's for the front but I don't feel I need them since I had a tire shop balance them.

[SpyderAnn01]

What is your passenger doing in curves?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

But I have to admit that I still feel some uneasiness when cornering with the Spyder. I'm much more secure on my 2 wheeler Shadow in the corners. I've ridden the Spyder enough now that I would hope that this feeling would have gone away. I end up cornering way slower than I would with the 2 wheeler. I drove formula racing cars for years so I am comfortable in corners right on the edge control...but not on the Spyder.

OK, are you trying to ride the Spyder through curves like a race car, or a two wheeler? If like a two wheeler that is your problem. Handle it more like the race cars you are used to and I'll bet you'll find it corners much better!