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  1. #1
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    Default Water in the cylinders using JT's air cleaner

    Anyone have a water problem using JT's air cleaner on a 998 engine.... If so, how does the water get in the cylinders. Any information will be appreciated...
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    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Interesting....🤔

    Never had a problem. How do you know it is getting into the cylinders through the air cleaner...?
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
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    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    & with all the ethanol in our gas as it is

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramrover View Post
    Anyone have a water problem using JT's air cleaner on a 998 engine........
    Why do you ask??

    Similar 'oil filled foam' filters are frequently used in a variety of places to STOP any water getting past the air filter - properly cleaned & serviced, a fine oil filled foam filter can prevent mist & rain, spray, etc from getting sucked thru & into the engine with the charge air; they can even force an engine shut down & avoid internal engine damage if they get soaked & blocked by water & in doing so restrict the air flow necessary for the engine to keep running; and they'll do that in situations where a standard 'paper' filter, once it gets wet, will just let water run straight thru & in doing so, can cause the destruction of the engine - at the extreme end, broken pistons & crank outside the block type destruction!!?

    So why do ask?
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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Why do you ask??

    Similar 'oil filled foam' filters are frequently used in a variety of places to STOP any water getting past the air filter - properly cleaned & serviced, a fine oil filled foam filter can prevent mist & rain, spray, etc from getting sucked thru & into the engine with the charge air; they can even force an engine shut down & avoid internal engine damage if they get soaked & blocked by water & in doing so restrict the air flow necessary for the engine to keep running; and they'll do that in situations where a standard 'paper' filter, once it gets wet, will just let water run straight thru & in doing so, can cause the destruction of the engine - at the extreme end, broken pistons & crank outside the block type destruction!!?

    So why do ask?
    I disagree. A foam filter will allow water to pass through with minimal restriction once the filter becomes wet. My experience Saturday had the oiled foam filter on my trials motorcycle get wet. The water, while realatively cleaned, passed through the air filter, entered the carb, and worked its way into the float bowl killing the engine.

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    Default water

    If you had water in the float bowl it was from the fuel. No way for water to get there through carb to bowl.

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    There's no float bowl in the fuel injection setup for our bikes...
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    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Lets see....

    Just reading through here I would ask if this is one of the 2013 models with the modified body panels and do they allow water through to the engine compartment. This would allow water to reach the air filter which is not on the standard pre 13 models or those without the change. Still I don't see it as a problem if you have a K&N type oil soaked filter. If this should be the case your engine would start to starve for air as it is hard to suck the water through the filter. What effect is your question doing to your ryding...?
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    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramrover View Post
    Anyone have a water problem using JT's air cleaner on a 998 engine.... If so, how does the water get in the cylinders. Any information will be appreciated...
    Ramrover, by the way you worded your question, are you just asking a theoretical question, like is it possible? Or did you have an engine that had a JT's air cleaner AND water in the engine? Just curious.
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    What's the reason for the question?
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    Default Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    Never had a problem. How do you know it is getting into the cylinders through the air cleaner...?

    I have not had any problem, but I have read a few posts online about water intrusion during heavy downpours..... I am just concerned, don't want to ruin my engine....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramrover View Post
    I have not had any problem, but I have read a few posts online about water intrusion during heavy downpours..... I am just concerned, don't want to ruin my engine....
    I think you are safe. If it happened to you I believe that would be a first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGoebel View Post
    Ramrover, by the way you worded your question, are you just asking a theoretical question, like is it possible? Or did you have an engine that had a JT's air cleaner AND water in the engine? Just curious.
    I have not had a problem, but I have not ridden in heavy rain or let the bike sit in heavy downpours... I asked the question because I have seen a few posts of spyder owners that claim to have had the problem....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowperil View Post
    If you had water in the float bowl it was from the fuel. No way for water to get there through carb to bowl.
    No, it is possible to pass water into the float bowl via the air inlet bell then down the main nozzle emulsion tube.

    Water will pass through a foam air filter even properly oiled with foam filter oil.

    FWIW, and I appreciate your logic the water was in the fuel, however, when I removed the subframe and airbox, then tipped the airbox to see if water had entered past the filter, a Dixie Cups amount of water poured from the airbox.

    The airbox runs filtered air and has no drains. One way for water to enter is only passing through the oiled foam filter.

    The question was asked will water pass through an oiled foam filter and yes it will.
    Last edited by PMK; 04-19-2018 at 03:03 PM.

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    Very Active Member ahh-cool's Avatar
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    I have not had that problem and I have driven through some very heavy rains.
    However, The screen on my filter was rusty.
    If you need the filter number ask and I will look it up


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramrover View Post
    Anyone have a water problem using JT's air cleaner on a 998 engine.... If so, how does the water get in the cylinders. Any information will be appreciated...
    How do you know you have water in the cylinders?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramrover View Post
    I have not had a problem, but I have not ridden in heavy rain or let the bike sit in heavy downpours... I asked the question because I have seen a few posts of spyder owners that claim to have had the problem....
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    Default Unlikely, but possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramrover View Post
    Anyone have a water problem using JT's air cleaner on a 998 engine.... If so, how does the water get in the cylinders. Any information will be appreciated...

    Spyderfish here, 2013 STS, with JT air cleaner. Love the filter, takes away the need for the external scoops, allows access to the engine, and adds a certain edge to the soundprint. Here is what I see wrt the filter

    The top of the air filter is concave, with the retaining stud dead center in the deepest part of the concave bowl. Overhead, the steering column is metal mesh, rain easily passes through. A rare coincidence of a heavy rain coupled with a small gap in the mounting stud, could allow water to pass through the mesh, collect in the top cover bowl and then pass through a gap between the stud bolt and the top cover. The water would not touch the filter element, straight into the throttle body.

    Not a high probability, but enough to make me install an inverted pie pan over the cover. The pie pan is a couple inches larger in diameter than the filter, it has a flat top, and there is a rubber seal around the bolt. No water is going to collect or drain.

    8 bucks brings a fair share of peace of mind.

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    Very Active Member Big Arm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderfish View Post

    8 bucks brings a fair share of peace of mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderfish View Post
    Spyderfish here, 2013 STS, with JT air cleaner. Love the filter, takes away the need for the external scoops, allows access to the engine, and adds a certain edge to the soundprint. Here is what I see wrt the filter

    The top of the air filter is concave, with the retaining stud dead center in the deepest part of the concave bowl. Overhead, the steering column is metal mesh, rain easily passes through. A rare coincidence of a heavy rain coupled with a small gap in the mounting stud, could allow water to pass through the mesh, collect in the top cover bowl and then pass through a gap between the stud bolt and the top cover. The water would not touch the filter element, straight into the throttle body.

    Not a high probability, but enough to make me install an inverted pie pan over the cover. The pie pan is a couple inches larger in diameter than the filter, it has a flat top, and there is a rubber seal around the bolt. No water is going to collect or drain.

    8 bucks brings a fair share of peace of mind.

    David

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default WATER SEEPAGE

    Quote Originally Posted by spyderfish View Post
    Spyderfish here, 2013 STS, with JT air cleaner. Love the filter, takes away the need for the external scoops, allows access to the engine, and adds a certain edge to the soundprint. Here is what I see wrt the filter

    The top of the air filter is concave, with the retaining stud dead center in the deepest part of the concave bowl. Overhead, the steering column is metal mesh, rain easily passes through. A rare coincidence of a heavy rain coupled with a small gap in the mounting stud, could allow water to pass through the mesh, collect in the top cover bowl and then pass through a gap between the stud bolt and the top cover. The water would not touch the filter element, straight into the throttle body.

    Not a high probability, but enough to make me install an inverted pie pan over the cover. The pie pan is a couple inches larger in diameter than the filter, it has a flat top, and there is a rubber seal around the bolt. No water is going to collect or drain.

    8 bucks brings a fair share of peace of mind.
    ....Question ....could the filter Cover be flipped to avoid the problem ?????? ...............Thanks Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ....Question ....could the filter Cover be flipped to avoid the problem ?????? ...............Thanks Mike
    Here are some before and after pics showing the filter before and after pie plate water shield. The filter attachment in the center is actually a bolt with lock washer, not a threaded stud, bad memory.

    There is about 1 inch between the shield and the filter around the perimeter, I do not believe there is any suppression of airflow. This space could be filled with the foam wrapper from JT, but II have left it open.

    As far as inverdion, I believe the bottom of the top plate of the filter housing is machined to have a flat surface that matches the seal on the filter element. Not totally sure on this.

    Hope this helps clarify.

    Spyderfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
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    Very Active Member Warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderfish View Post
    Here are some before and after pics showing the filter before and after pie plate water shield. The filter attachment in the center is actually a bolt with lock washer, not a threaded stud, bad memory.

    There is about 1 inch between the shield and the filter around the perimeter, I do not believe there is any suppression of airflow. This space could be filled with the foam wrapper from JT, but II have left it open.

    As far as inverdion, I believe the bottom of the top plate of the filter housing is machined to have a flat surface that matches the seal on the filter element. Not totally sure on this.

    Hope this helps clarify.

    Spyderfish
    Did it quiet it up any at all. I know mine is loud.
    David

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    Active Member spyderfish's Avatar
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    Smile Sound

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
    Did it quiet it up any at all. I know mine is loud.
    David
    Sound level seems the same, loud enough for ear protection when accelerating. Foam might help, but I am dubious. The new open space above the engine is great for cooling and access, but is does act as a sound intensifier.

    I just wear ear protection.

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