Long term results without brake system flush

[Wildrice]

When I had a shop we ran a $$ special on System Brake fluid Flush--this was in the 90's. The majority of older rear or both F & R drum brakes would bring their personal collectable vehicles in for the brake flush special. some were almost 20 yrs old. We would do the complete system brake flush. Probably 50% of them returned within 3 months with leaking brake cylinders, or calipers, or master cyclers with a bypass problems. Kind of reminded me of replacing a water heater in an old rental home I had. Mess with old plumbing & the last thing to replace was the water line coming into the house. Sometimes delayed maintenance can get expensive. I don't have a questimate as to how many years or miles on the Spyder are required to avoid the old plumbing issues....I would hope 5 yrs should be safe.
Dot 3 sucks,Dot 4 is much better & can be used with anti-lock brake systems--both dot 3 & dot 4 absorb moister, Dot 5 is the best--doesn't absorb moisture but is Not suited for anti-lock brake systems, use Dot 4 best for the Spyder
Darrell

[pegasus1300]

Can Am recomends every 2 years. I had mine done when I bought it and it was 3 years old with 8500 miles on it. The fluid was really nasty and I was glad I had it done.

[Wildrice]

Can Am recomends every 2 years. I had mine done when I bought it and it was 3 years old with 8500 miles on it. The fluid was really nasty and I was glad I had it done.

There goes my 5 yr guesstimate--the Can Am Spyders have some very special needs compared to other motorcycles & vehicles on the road.

Sometimes I get the feeling that periodic maintenance can be dictated based on the $$ income of their service Department.
for example:
Chevrolet calls for a brake fluid change on most models every 45,000 miles, but Honda says to do it every three years regardless of the vehicle's mileage. Three years is also the recommended interval for most Volkswagens, but Mercedes-Benz vehicles typically call for fresh fluid every two years or 20,000 miles. In contrast, on the Ford Escape, Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Camry and other models from those manufacturers, there are no recommendations for replacing the brake fluid, only instructions to inspect it periodically.
I have to believe the stress on brake fluid on a 4000 lb vehicle would be greater than one on a 1000 lb vehicle BUT if the brake parts-Calipers -etc are made of metal parts that rust easily--maybe a more often frequency is necessary.
Darrell

[fencepost]

Honda and Harley have and are having recalls because owners did not change fluids as recommended.

[ofdave]

DOT 5 is silicone based and is not compatible with glycol based DOT 3 or 4 or 5.1.
Not a good idea to mix the DOT 4 in your Spyder with DOT 5.

[youngers]

so let me see now ,you say , " system brake flush ' is this drain the reservoir , and fill with new , then bleed out the lines ? ( I am wondering , with the new fluid through the system would I get better brake peddle , than what I have now ? 2012 r-t maybe 12000 miles on her ... ya see I live real close to all the good sights .... keeps the milage down )

[Little Blue]

LIKE my Grandpa always said, they just DO NOT make anything the same. Why, 'JUST BECAUSE'.

[Bob Denman]

so let me see now ,you say , " system brake flush ' is this drain the reservoir , and fill with new , then bleed out the lines ? ( I am wondering , with the new fluid through the system would I get better brake peddle , than what I have now ? 2012 r-t maybe 12000 miles on her ... ya see I live real close to all the good sights .... keeps the milage down )

The older RTs always seemed to do best if you gave the pedal a quick pump; when trying to get stopped.
The newer, Brembo-equipped bikes DO stop better!

Replacing the fluid can't possibly hurt. If you've still got the original fluid in there: do it NOW!

[Wildrice]

so let me see now ,you say , " system brake flush ' is this drain the reservoir , and fill with new , then bleed out the lines ? ( I am wondering , with the new fluid through the system would I get better brake peddle , than what I have now ? 2012 r-t maybe 12000 miles on her ... ya see I live real close to all the good sights .... keeps the milage down )

Correct--siphon old fluid out of master cylinder & refill with new brake fluid before you start bleeding the brake calipers . You may need to refill the master cyl again while bleeding the brakes--don't let it go dry or air will re-enter the brake lines.
Darrell.

[Wildrice]

Honda and Harley have and are having recalls because owners did not change fluids as recommended.

Did the article say how many yrs or milage the problem bikes had on them?? I',m all for changing brake fluid---it just seems like every 2 yrs requirement is hiding some other issue.
Darrell

[ofdave]

The two year requirement by some (many) motorcycle manufacturers is pretty common.
I doubt there are any issues being hidden. It's been that practice for many years.
I can't think of a bike I've owned in the last 12 years (6 or 7) that did not have that noted in the service manual. Suzuki, 3 Hondas, BMW, Triumph and Harley.
I suspect it's because brake fluid absorbs moisture with age (a general statement) and braking efficiency is lessened. And a problem due to improper maintenance (if one occurs), should be dealt with by the owner and not the manufacturer.
It could be driven to a large part, by a CYA mentality on the part of the manufacturers. Folks in this country are awfully quick to sue someone and awfully slow to take personal responsibility for their actions. And not all maintain their vehicles properly.

[Navydad]

It's not a mileage thing. Brake fluid draws moisture whether you are riding the bike or not. Two year change interval is a good idea. Fluid draws moisture, moisture causes corrosion, corrosion causes expensive repairs if not caught and corrected. If you are a spirited rider and manage to get your brake discs really hot (it doesn't take much) this heat is transferred to the pads and then to the fluid causing the moisture in the fluid to turn to vapor (water to steam basically) Then you have a whole new set of problems when the vapor expands and causes the brakes to drag. Lots of neat ideas out there on how to make your ride go faster, but remember you gotta stop too. Easier and cheaper than changing the oil.

[RinconRyder]

Honda and Harley have and are having recalls because owners did not change fluids as recommended.

A "recall" would be issued for a manufacturing defect and not because of owner lack of recommended maintenance.

[gerald37]

I am thinking about bleeding the brakes on my 2015 Can Am Spyder myself. I am going to use a MityVac and what I have read it don't seem to be any problem if you do the front left wheel then the front right wheel then do the rear. I am a little afraid of bleeding the VCM bleeder. I understand this could cause a problem without BUDS. I know it would leave a little old fluid in the system. I thought if you can do the front and rear brake calipers then say in another month or so do it again and you would have fresh brake fluid in the complete system. I would like to hear from anyone that has done their own brake bleeding and if they had any problems?

[Wildrice]

The two year requirement by some (many) motorcycle manufacturers is pretty common.
I doubt there are any issues being hidden. It's been that practice for many years.
I can't think of a bike I've owned in the last 12 years (6 or 7) that did not have that noted in the service manual. Suzuki, 3 Hondas, BMW, Triumph and Harley.
I suspect it's because brake fluid absorbs moisture with age (a general statement) and braking efficiency is lessened. And a problem due to improper maintenance (if one occurs), should be dealt with by the owner and not the manufacturer.
It could be driven to a large part, by a CYA mentality on the part of the manufacturers. Folks in this country are awfully quick to sue someone and awfully slow to take personal responsibility for their actions. And not all maintain their vehicles properly.

One can't go wrong following the recommendations in their service manual. Personally I find 9000 miles between oil changes to be on the long side...
As for brake fluid I lost an engine on my 2003 Harley Deuce because the oil pump gear broke off. However--in the 8 yrs I owned that bike 12K+ miles I never changed the brake fluid--replaced the caliper pads -did a quick bleed only. I know several bike riders with over 50K miles that have never flushed their brake system--maybe all were lucky.
If doing it by yourself a Mityvac can be purchased for under $40 at Harbor Freight, Ebay, Amazon, or any auto parts store. I have an Acadia Denali yr 2012 & have never changed the brake fluid--that's just me.. Like I said you can't go wrong following the service manual. I just find some of the recommendations a bit excessive --like 2 yrs. I have a 2015 F3's--no I haven't--I'll change the fluid in another 2 yrs. I have just read through both of my 2003 Harley Softail 250 page service manual & the same on my 2007 Hayabusa technical service manuals. I found 12 pages regarding the brakes & fluid --mostly dealing with caliper pads, bleeding air from system, checking level in master cyl's but Nowhere did it say to replace all the brake fluid in either. I had a 2014 Harley Street Glide Special but don't have the manual. That clumsy pig was the reason I bought the Spyder A guys gotta love a reverse gear:-) I've only had one serious brake problem on my 460 Ford 24' motorhome coming down the mountain when the dot 3 fluid boiled & the brake pedal went to the floor---That vehicle did have the brake fluid system flushed + brake shoes & calipers replaced with dot 3 prior to a 12,000 6 week trip across the USA. Note--Use Dot 4.
Caution--No chemicals in my garage including acetone will eat/destroy the paint faster than brake fluid. Cover the fender near the master Cyl before you began.

[Tango]

A "recall" would be issued for a manufacturing defect and not because of owner lack of recommended maintenance.

The recall is was issued because something in the ABS was caroding(sp)due to owners not flushing the systems when required. Tom

[Wildrice]

The recall is was issued because something in the ABS was caroding(sp)due to owners not flushing the systems when required. Tom

True story Tom---so why aren't all vehicle ABS's units having that problem. Most vehicles within the last decade have ABS without that problem. Is it remotely possible that the ABS units that are experiencing problems have a problem themselves that can be prevented with clean fluid. Realistically--how does Chevy Ford, & several current MFG ABS bikes not experience this problem? I agree on the need for brake system fluid flush but the frequency of several mfg promote it to cover up a fault in their ABS or else (I get worried when I hear the price of a few prior members have been quoted for the Brake system Flush--$300 to $800) is that possible?
Darrell

[Tango]

True story Tom---so why aren't all vehicle ABS's units having that problem. Most vehicles within the last decade have ABS without that problem. Is it remotely possible that the ABS units that are experiencing problems have a problem themselves that can be prevented with clean fluid. Realistically--how does Chevy Ford, & several current MFG ABS bikes not experience this problem? I agree on the need for brake system fluid flush but the frequency of several mfg promote it to cover up a fault in their ABS or else (I get worried when I hear the price of a few prior members have been quoted for the Brake system Flush--$300 to $800) is that possible?
Darrell

Darrell I have no idea what some of the manufacturer's are doing that others aren't. I know My new Volvo requires a brake fluid flush every 40,000 miles. Around $300. Tom

[Oldtimer51]

I am what you consider an "Oldtimer" and in that many years 67 so far never have I replaced the brake fluid in any on my cars or motorcycles just because. The only semi valid reason is if the fluid is somehow got contaminated or has absorved moisture from the air. Unlikely under most normal conditions. On racing bikes they service their entire brake systems after each race because they overheat with the high stress of braking at higher speed so I see why they will change the fluid every time or at very low intervals. Most Spyders with brake problems are because the quality of many #BRP products are cheap junk in general. It has nothing to do with having ABS. Most new motorcycles and cars have ABS. Costing $300 a pop I see why dealers highly recommend to get it done yearly or more often if po$$ible! It is all about the money! Not buying it!

[ARtraveler]

This thread dates back to 3/2018.

[Bfromla]

I am what you consider an "Oldtimer" and in that many years 67 so far never have I replaced the brake fluid in any on my cars or motorcycles just because. The only semi valid reason is if the fluid is somehow got contaminated or has absorved moisture from the air. Unlikely under most normal conditions. On racing bikes they service their entire brake systems after each race because they overheat with the high stress of braking at higher speed so I see why they will change the fluid every time or at very low intervals. Most Spyders with brake problems are because the quality of many #BRP products are cheap junk in general. It has nothing to do with having ABS. Most new motorcycles and cars have ABS. Costing $300 a pop I see why dealers highly recommend to get it done yearly or more often if po$$ible! It is all about the money! Not buying it!

Simply DIY & save. Unfortunately fluid does break down & or get contaminated

[Transam87020]

I installed speed bleeders on my Goldwing and made brake bleeds and fluid replacements a breeze

[Freddy]

The only semi valid reason is if the fluid is somehow got contaminated or has absorbed moisture from the air. Unlikely under most normal conditions.

Ignorance (and good fortune) is bliss.

[askitee]

My 2017 RTL bought new in March 2018, has 47000 kms on the clock. The fluid was replaced last Friday when in for the 45K service. The brakes had been a little "spongy" prior and the flush/replacement has certainly made a difference on mine. It reminded me how these "slowly developing over time" things like brake fluid degradation can sneak up on you. Interesting point you make though about vehicles not maintained

[JP58]

I am thinking about bleeding the brakes on my 2015 Can Am Spyder myself. I am going to use a MityVac and what I have read it don't seem to be any problem if you do the front left wheel then the front right wheel then do the rear. I am a little afraid of bleeding the VCM bleeder. I understand this could cause a problem without BUDS. I know it would leave a little old fluid in the system. I thought if you can do the front and rear brake calipers then say in another month or so do it again and you would have fresh brake fluid in the complete system. I would like to hear from anyone that has done their own brake bleeding and if they had any problems?

I just changed mine on my 18 F3L. 2 years old and 15k miles. Fluid was fairly dark. We also did my friends 18 Yamaha Venture. Same time and mileage. His was much clearer looking. I used my Mity Vac. Sucked fluid out of reservoir. Filled then sucked out of the 3 calipers. Nice clean looking fluid when done. No using buds.