ar-15

[UtahPete]

I guess you could call them both "spray & pray" weapons. I guess the AK was "designed like a tractor" according to Kalashnikov! I came in to my military career later on in life and I was not trying to be disrespectful and by the way, THANK YOU for your service. Mac

I didn't consider your post to be disrespectful in any way. I found it insightful. My editorial comment probably led you to think otherwise. Sorry.

[Bob Denman]

I didn't know the history of the evolution of what I knew of as the M-16 in Vietnam. Interesting choice by the military, considering the enemy was using the far more lethal and reliable AK-47 at the time.

Lethality wasn't the issue...
It took more men to remove and treat a wounded soldier; than it did to transport a body.
The older M14 (Which is a VERY desirable rifle!), used ammo that was tougher to carry in bulk. You could pack along a whole lot more ammo for the M16.

I've owned AR-15s.... I personally don't see the thrill in them.
But I also know that you cannot differentiate between an AR, and ANY other semi-automatic rifle that might be more useful in the hunting field or target range.
And THAT is the problem: It would be too easy to "move the goalposts", and start outlawing a whole bunch of other rifles.

[Mad Mac]

I didn't consider your post to be disrespectful in any way. I found it insightful. My editorial comment probably led you to think otherwise. Sorry.

With what you posted and quoted, I thought maybe I missed something with my "old eyes" because I d/n see the M-16 mentioned in that informative article. When I went to my basic training in '77, we had to qualify w/M-16A1's and I don't think their was a "civilian version" at that time in history.(young & dumb??) I should do a little bit more research before I post! Mac

[Mad Mac]

Lethality wasn't the issue...
It took more men to remove and treat a wounded soldier; than it did to transport a body.
The older M14 (Which is a VERY desirable rifle!), used ammo that was tougher to carry in bulk. You could pack along a whole lot more ammo for the M16.

I've owned AR-15s.... I personally don't see the thrill in them.
But I also know that you cannot differentiate between an AR, and ANY other semi-automatic rifle that might be more useful in the hunting field or target range.
And THAT is the problem: It would be too easy to "move the goalposts", and start outlawing a whole bunch of other rifles.

Can I say "slippery slope" anyone?? Mac

[Bob Denman]

Amen... yes; you can!

[Saluda]

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun.

In this day and age that would be an extra 6 months. Won't comment on the rest, you'll never see it happen thankfully.

[PrairieSpyder]

i don't own a gun or rifle but i was wondering what is the purpose of an ar15, what is it made to do?

Shoot bullets.

[PrairieSpyder]

The truth about assault weapons.

http://www.assaultweapon.info

[kep-up]

Oh sure you have. They get dropped. Trigger catches on clothing. Dog knocks over shotgun. Hunter props rifle against fence. Hunter climbs fence. Fence breaks. Hunter falls off fence. Gun falls on ground and shoots hunter in butt. How about son who comes in late and is shot by non-deranged father? That happened in my neighborhood two years ago. Upscale neighborhood. Not much crime. Father was not "deranged". Wonder how he is feeling now?

We have got to keep firearms of all kinds out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not only 'deranged' people but youngsters, old farts who cannot see what they are shooting at and, of course, criminals.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE GUN!

We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type. Then you'll be wanting my side by side double trigger shotguns 'cause I can fire 2 shots as fast as any semi-auto.

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun.

None of the above would negatively impact your personal enjoyment of target shooting or hunting so the only thing I can say if you continue to disagree with this direction is that you value your guns more than your children.

Even my semi-auto .22LR cal target rifles?? Surely you jest! How about my semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun?

[Blue Star]

Most killings are done by deranged people. I never heard of one rifle or pistol that fired by it self. It's NOT THE GUN.

Oh sure you have. They get dropped. Person dropped it, so it was the person's fault not the gun. Trigger catches on clothing. Person not being careful. Sure it was an accident, but not because it went off by itself, so it was the person's fault. Dog knocks over shotgun. Gun left loaded, and cocked, so gun did not just go off. Again person's fault. Hunter props rifle against fence. Hunter climbs fence. Fence breaks. Hunter falls off fence. Gun falls on ground and shoots hunter in butt. Hunter did not have control of gun like he should, did not have safety on, Hunter caused gun to fall on ground, hunter is cause for gun to go off. How about son who comes in late and is shot by non-deranged father. Every gun safety class I took said if you are going to pull the trigger then know what you are shooting at, and what is behind it. That happened in my neighborhood two years ago. Upscale neighborhood. Not much crime. Father was not "deranged". Wonder how he is feeling now? I hope the kid lived, and is alright. Father should be charged with attempted murder.

We have got to keep firearms of all kinds out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not only 'deranged' people but youngsters, old farts who cannot see what they are shooting at and, of course, criminals. On this I agree with you

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE GUN! Nope, it is the person that for whatever reason chooses to

use it to kill someone.

We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. Many countries have tried this, and how has it worked for them? We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type. Don't we already do?

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun. What we need is a return to the death penalty, but the crazy person that does this does not care about the punishment.

None of the above would negatively impact your personal enjoyment of target shooting or hunting so the only thing I can say if you continue to disagree with this direction is that you value your guns more than your children. I will use my gun to protect my children

RinconRyder,

I think you are way off on your point of view

[UtahPete]

We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. Many countries have tried this, and how has it worked for them? We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type. Don't we already do?

The countries that have tried it (most recently Australia as the result of their first and last mass shooting) have found it to be very effective at reducing violent crime, particularly senseless mass shootings.

No, we don't have effective background checks. Duh.

[Trickie Dick]

Well, I knew it was coming. Another highly charged political thread.
It's interesting to note that many of you are using the AR15 for hunting. What kind of hunting? Squirrel? duck? deer?(illegal in many states) Elk? What ? Throw a high capacity magazine on top of that and it really gets interesting. I'd really like to know. I do know what the ARs were designed for and it sure as hell wasn't for hunting.

[Blue Star]

The countries that have tried it (most recently Australia as the result of their first and last mass shooting) have found it to be very effective at reducing violent crime, particularly senseless mass shootings.

No, we don't have effective background checks. Duh.

This article says different.

The Australian Bureau of Criminology states its murder rate in 2006 with firearms was the highest ever at 16.3 percent.

The ban started in 1997.

Also since the ban, here are the crime increases:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent, robbery 6.2 percent, sexual assault/rape 29.2 percent and overall crime rose 42.2 percent. Those numbers are quite a startling difference from ''virtually eliminating gun deaths and no substantial increase in violent crime.'' And since the ban, Australian women are raped three times more often than American women. Using Australia as an model to lead people into a false sense of security that an anti-gun policy could create a safer society is an injustice.

http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2013/01/violent_crime_rose_after_gun_b.html

I had to go thru a background check when I purchased my guns when I lived in California, so maybe it is only a California law. Of course I agree they could be better.

[Mad Mac]

We, as a society, need to keep firearms out of the hands of EDP's. We need to change the "firearm transaction" form to were line #14(?) reads- Are you under the care of a mental health professional? Needs to be answered thru the ATFE by a Federal data base which is used in cooperation with the AMA, and only they can see that info. It cannot be available to joe public, even the FFL dealer, it just is "approved or denied". So far it appears that line #14 is answered by the "honor system" and it appears to not be working. But again I see the "slippery slope" to all of this. As a retired correctional officer, I have seen the effects of inmates on psychotropic meds. and when they were off of them, so I do have exposure to that part of humanity. Mac

[UtahPete]

This article says different.

The Australian Bureau of Criminology states its murder rate in 2006 with firearms was the highest ever at 16.3 percent. http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2013/01/violent_crime_rose_after_gun_b.html

I had to go thru a background check when I purchased my guns when I lived in California, so maybe it is only a California law. Of course I agree they could be better.

That's a blog, and it's addressing the murder rate from firearms in general. The OP was talking about eliminating semi-automatic weapons, which Australia did, with the result that mass shootings have been zero for over 20 years. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0e66ad4c86fa0

Yes, California has effective, and strictly enforced, gun control laws (which the US Supreme Court recently upheld). No other state that I know of does; it's time for the rest of the country to get with it since California's borders are somewhat porous...

[Mad Mac]

Well, I knew it was coming. Another highly charged political thread.
It's interesting to note that many of you are using the AR15 for hunting. What kind of hunting? Squirrel? duck? deer?(illegal in many states) Elk? What ? Throw a high capacity magazine on top of that and it really gets interesting. I'd really like to know. I do know what the ARs were designed for and it sure as hell wasn't for hunting.

I use mine to hunt coyotes. Sometimes I get lucky and I will have two in my field of view and can get both without even changing positions (follow-up shots). I also use it for white tail- deer in my state because it's legal to use.223 ammo, oh I also do long range target and steel plate shooting with it also out to 600yds. I use mine legally and responsively. Mac

[Blue Star]

Well, I knew it was coming. Another highly charged political thread.
It's interesting to note that many of you are using the AR15 for hunting. What kind of hunting? Squirrel? duck? deer?(illegal in many states) Elk? What ? Throw a high capacity magazine on top of that and it really gets interesting. I'd really like to know. I do know what the ARs were designed for and it sure as hell wasn't for hunting.

I hunt paper circles with mine, and I disagree. This thread has not been political, and so far everyone is polite.

[UtahPete]

I use mine to hunt coyotes. Sometimes I get lucky and I will have two in my field of view and can get both without even changing positions (follow-up shots). I also use it for white tail- deer in my state because it's legal to use.223 ammo, oh I also do long range target and steel plate shooting with it also out to 600yds. I use mine legally and responsively. Mac

I used to use my 1985 BMW 318i to pull a trailer. It did that very well, but that's not what it was designed for.

[Mad Mac]

I used to use my 1985 BMW 318i to pull a trailer. It did that very well, but that's not it was designed for.

I'm at a loss, I guess we can all agree to disagree at this point of the conversation. P.S. hope you found something to tow that trailer! Mac

[UtahPete]

I'm at a loss, I guess we can all agree to disagree at this point of the conversation. P.S. hope you found something to tow that trailer! Mac

I had the BMW for 10 years and 225,000 miles. In 1992, my son got a dirt bike and needed a way to get it around, so I put a hitch on the car and bought a cheap HF trailer so we could do that. Later on, I used the trailer to transport my few belongings at the time (nasty, expensive divorce and multiple child custody battles made me a little bereft of worldly goods) between locations on my frequent job-related moves. Necessity is the mother of invention I guess. Point is, the car wasn't designed for that purpose but could be used for that purpose as I needed.

The post you were quoting said he didn't think the AR-15 was designed as a hunting rifle. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be used for that purpose.

[ARtraveler]

Remember Cuzn John?

[RinconRyder]

If we're going there what about fertilizer and the illegal product that is used for.

Fertilizer is not produced as a weapon. Neither are plastic bags but put one over your head and see what happens.

[Blue Star]

Remember Cuzn John.

Cuzn John would continually post off color (bad) jokes, and that was his downfall.

I said it before, I think everyone is being polite.

Although there are those on one side of the fence, and those on the other.

If I offended anyone here, I apologize, and will delete any post they point out to me.

[Blue Star]

Fertilizer is not produced as a weapon. Neither are plastic bags but put one over your head and see what happens.

In California it will cost you 10 to 20 cents.

[UtahPete]

Cuzn John would continually post off color (bad) jokes, and that was his downfall. I said it before, I think everyone is being polite.

Although there are those on one side of the fence, and those on the other. If I offended anyone here, I apologize, and will delete any post they point out to me.

I'm not offended by anything, but I'm constantly amazed how thin-skinned some folks can be.

We're exchanging ideas, opinions and perspectives. Why should that be so scary to god-fearing, gun-totin' people?