Draining the oil

[Dray]

What size star torque allen does it take to remove the oil drain plugs on a 2017 F3L?

Thanks in advance!

Dray

[Doc - Riverside]

Torx T-45 for the engine plug (the plug with the 2 o-rings). The transmission is a 5 or 6 mm allen.

[hypurone]

and a 6mm hex bit for the trans if you have an SE6....

[Dray]

Thanks very much. Exactly what I needed to know.

Dray

[jcthorne]

and a 6mm hex bit for the trans if you have an SE6....

The SM6 is the same. Both trans have a drain under the clutch housing.

[ofdave]

The SM6 is the same. Both trans have a drain under the clutch housing.

does the SM6 have a filter for the trans?

[jcthorne]

does the SM6 have a filter for the trans?

No, only the SE has the trans filter.

[Lamonster]

This might help too.
http://www.lamonstergarage.com/news/...-change-video/

[EricP]

Any benefit here to using a topside fluid extractor instead of draining?
There is on my older BMWs as I can change oil and oil filter w/o ever getting under the vehicles / low to the ground, but not sure if I should even worry about trying to use it on my Spyder....

[JayBros]

Any benefit here to using a topside fluid extractor instead of draining?
There is on my older BMWs as I can change oil and oil filter w/o ever getting under the vehicles / low to the ground, but not sure if I should even worry about trying to use it on my Spyder....

Forget it on your Spyder! Pull the plugs and let it all drain out.

[EricP]

Forget it on your Spyder! Pull the plugs and let it all drain out.

Cool - will do.
Just curious why.....
..from Lamont's video, I can see that the filter is accessible from top-side, but there's 2 drain plugs - maybe the dipstick tube doesn't reach the very bottom so it would be too hard to get all the oil out (that your thinking)?

Just curious why from your perspective.

[AeroPilot]

I have an extractor that works well on lots of small engines to provide seasonal service. On some of those there is not a bottom sump plug so getting the oil out is a chore.

The 1330 engine has multiple scavenge pumps and apparently sumps as the most I have removed is 3.5 qts out of the 5 Qt oil change capacity by using the filler tube entry. The extractor does assist by reducing the drain volume and can be used to suck out other reservoirs.

[EricP]

I have an extractor that works well on lots of small engines to provide seasonal service. On some of those there is not a bottom sump plug so getting the oil out is a chore.

The 1330 engine has multiple scavenge pumps and apparently sumps as the most I have removed is 3.5 qts out of the 5 Qt oil change capacity by using the filler tube entry. The extractor does assist by reducing the drain volume and can be used to suck out other reservoirs.

Awesome. Thanks for that detailed opinion AeroPilot. That helps me understand better.

[JKMSPYDER]

Dray and EricP do yourselves a favor and purchase Gold plugs. These are oil plugs that use a socket head rather than a torx or allen head. Much easier to unscrew with out worrying about stripping it.

goldplug.com

[JayBros]

Cool - will do...Just curious why from your perspective.

Aeropilot explained about the scavenge pumps. What these pumps do, among other things, is get all the oil in the engine to where it's supposed to be in order to accurately measure the level in the engine once it is turned off. The dipstick, as well as that suction tube from an external extractor go into the engine oil tank. About two minutes after an engine at normal operating temperature is turned off, oil from the oil tank begins to run back into the dry sump of the engine. Since you can't maneuver the suction tube from the external extractor into the dry sump, you leave oil in the engine. There's no sense in letting that old worn oil contaminate a fresh batch of lubricant. Additionally, the OEM transmission, a.k.a. clutch cover plug, has a magnet on it, as do Gold Plug and Dimple Plug engine drain plugs. Even though those magnets are generally quite clean on oil changes after the first oil change at 3,000 miles, it's very wise to inspect both (if you've installed such plugs) just to be certain you don't find any signs that something may be going awry in your very expensive engine.

[Dray]

Dimple plugs are on order!!

Dray

[rustynail51]

Is there an EZ drain for the spyder and has any one used it

[JayBros]

If the EZ drain is one of those valve things there was small discussion about it quite awhile ago and some folks objected to the fact that it extends below the frame where striking a road object could possible do some severe damage to the engine casing. I'm satisfied with my Dimple plugs.

[Dmetcalf]

Dray and EricP do yourselves a favor and purchase Gold plugs. These are oil plugs that use a socket head rather than a torx or allen head. Much easier to unscrew with out worrying about stripping it.

goldplug.com

this is exactly what I did and I’m glad I did it. It will be much simlier next time (15mm & 17mm).

[jcthorne]

We will not install the Dimple or Gold plugs in the engine side. The one with 2 o-rings. Both manufactures install a magnet inside the plug, the bore for the magnet is too close to the o-ring groove and the plug easily shears off with little torque. If they made one without the magnet ie solid and a hex head it would help but as is, there have been too many failures. When a customer comes to us with one in the bike, IF it comes out in one piece we hand it to the customer and install a new oem plug. Will not put them in for liability reasons.

Suggest avoiding the magnetic plugs on the engine side. The clutch side already has a magnetic plug from the factory.

If you use the correct tools to remove the plugs, there is no problem at all with the factory plugs.

[JKMSPYDER]

I have heard of several Dimple plugs breaking at the O ring indentation, but no Gold Plugs to my knowledge. In following other threads about this, the consensus is that the Gold Plugs are thicker where the O rings go. I have the Gold Plugs and have never had an issue. Just my 2 cents.

[jcthorne]

I have heard of several Dimple plugs breaking at the O ring indentation, but no Gold Plugs to my knowledge. In following other threads about this, the consensus is that the Gold Plugs are thicker where the O rings go. I have the Gold Plugs and have never had an issue. Just my 2 cents.

The basic design with the magnet hole behind the o-ring is the same. This plug has the threads on the far end of the plug so all torque must pass through this thin wall section. Bad design. Eliminate the extrainous hole for the not needed magnet and I will use them. Until then I have no reason to risk liability for a several thousand dollar repair in removing a sheared plug for risking the installation of a known inferior part.

We will stick with OEM only on the engine side for now. And yes, I have seen a Gold Plug shear there. Its stronger than dimple but still has the problem.

[malibu_dan]

The basic design with the magnet hole behind the o-ring is the same. This plug has the threads on the far end of the plug so all torque must pass through this thin wall section. Bad design. Eliminate the extrainous hole for the not needed magnet and I will use them. Until then I have no reason to risk liability for a several thousand dollar repair in removing a sheared plug for risking the installation of a known inferior part.

We will stick with OEM only on the engine side for now. And yes, I have seen a Gold Plug shear there. Its stronger than dimple but still has the problem.

I appreciate the real-world experience, jc. So, where is the failure point on this design? I would think the weak point in this would be where the o-ring groove is right below the threads--but this would be the same on the OEM as well.

[jcthorne]

The weak point is right where you think it is, at the o-ring groove. The reason the Dimple and Gold plugs are worse than OEM is the end of the plug is drilled to insert a magnet. The drilled hole is behind that o-ring groove. Thus the thin wall section the torque must pass through and were the plug shears off inside the engine. Its a major tear down to get the threaded remains of that plug out.

Just FYI, your picture did not post correctly. Cannot see it.

[UtahPete]

Drain plug o-rings.jpg oil filter housing cap.jpg engine sump drain plug.jpg Spyder oil change.jpg
Looking at the diagram in the shop manual, it seems to have the location of the two plugs backwards.

On my 2014RT, the non-magnetic oil sump plug with two O-rings and a crush washer, using a T-45 wrench, is on the left side of the frame, not the right.

The smaller magnetic clutch cover plug with just the crush washer (no O-rings), using a 6mm hex wrench, is on the right side of the frame, not the left.

When I removed the clutch cover drain plug, it took a lot of force to break it loose. But the torque spec for reinserting it is only 15 ft-lbs. Doesn't seem like enough torque to seat the washer properly.

So, before I refill with the new oil and bring the bike back down off the jacks, can someone confirm for me that 15 ft-lbs for the clutch housing plug and 21 ft-lbs for the engine sump plug are correct?

Thanks.