Do Spyders have "black boxes"?

[ruralgirl]

At our ABATE meeting tonight, I learned that if your bike has an ABS (anti-lock brake system) it probably also has a "black box". This is the computer's log of every computer-referred move you've made within a certain time frame, although I'm not clear on if it's limited to braking. Hence, if you hit a deer, e.g., they can tell when, if, how hard and for how long you tried to brake.

The discussion arose because of the question of who owns that black box; you, your insurance company, or the manufacturer. My owner's manual boasts the ABS, so do our Spyders have a black box? If so, where are they typically located?

[Chupaca]

It does....when hooked up to the BUDS system it has a record of the engine performance...logs all codes visable to Ryder as well not visable to ryder. I don't know a lot but sure dealers can give you a printout. There are some 7 reporting computers and xxx sensors and all that information is probably in the ECM... maybe not a black box but many black boxes...

[JP58]

My Indian Chieftain had a black box. When I took it in for service the tech told me how many times I put the kickstand down in first gear. It would stall. He also told me I had a habit of backing out of the garage and then starting it while moving. Also told me how many times I stalled bringing the clutch out. I got better with time. Now that I have a Spyder with auto shift I would have to learn all over again.

[ruralgirl]

It does....when hooked up to the BUDS system it has a record of the engine performance...logs all codes visable to Ryder as well not visable to ryder. I don't know a lot but sure dealers can give you a printout. There are some 7 reporting computers and xxx sensors and all that information is probably in the ECM... maybe not a black box but many black boxes...

I wondered about the BUDS stuff and whether our ABATE guy was basically talking the same thing, but I never heard the term black box in relation to bikes before. The group actually talked about the box being retrieved after an accident, likening it to an airliner, and we also half-joked about whether one's black box could be "damaged" during an accident. The answer of course being, yes, if you know where to find it.

[ruralgirl]

My Indian Chieftain had a black box. When I took it in for service the tech told me how many times I put the kickstand down in first gear. It would stall. He also told me I had a habit of backing out of the garage and then starting it while moving. Also told me how many times I stalled bringing the clutch out. I got better with time. Now that I have a Spyder with auto shift I would have to learn all over again.

Yup, this was the direction our group took the discussion, which was why I wondered if the ABS was only a fraction of the log's info. Reminds me of our UPS guy. When I asked how many starter motors they go through by requiring their drivers to shut off the engine whenever a homeowner steps outside, he said he didn't know other than he'd better do it because his bosses know everything, from how often he backs up (they're not supposed to unless they're desperate), whenever he doesn't wear his seatbelt, every turn he's made, every time he's used the brakes, etc, etc. That would drive me insane!!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The only thing I've heard about or seen in relation to the computers and BUDs is that there is a histogram of engine RPM and gear. Particularly with the 998s if you weren't running high enough RPM for the various gears the dealer would likely chide you about it. And of course a log of the error codes.

SpyderAnne can tell us more as she uses the BUDs during alignments. Or JC Thorne could tell us more.

[Bob Denman]

BUDS can retrieve any and all recorded data...

But who cares???

The bike is STILL way too much fun!

[pegasus1300]

BUDS can retrieve any and all recorded data...

But who cares???

The bike is STILL way too much fun!

Because the day is going to come when law enforcement and insurance and drivers license depts. will be able to read that information and judge you accordingly. You should be aware of this Bob being in the industry.

[Bob Denman]

That doesn't bother me in the least...
They can track where I go, how fast I get there, what I listen to, what I eat, how much I go to the bathroom, and even how much I cuss!


...But I DO pity the poor fool who is subjected to all of it!

[ARtraveler]

Just another sign of the times. Orwell was right. Big Brother is watching.

[jcthorne]

Actually your Insurance company or law enforcement can ASK you for the data but they cannot require you to submit it. The black box is YOUR property as is the data it contains. This has been upheld in many court cases.

Its also the largest reason you will never own a self driving car. They will all be owned by companies and provide you a service. The company that owns the vehicles will own the data and likely large enough to be self insured.

[Bob Denman]

Just another sign of the times. Orwell was right. Big Brother is watching.

Actually: they sub-contract the entire "Watching You" program out to an individual who has perfected it...

santa-watching.jpg

[RapidSpyder]

Just when I was convinced there was no Santa Claus....

[Bob Denman]

He also does some per-diem work for the N.S.A.

[ruralgirl]

BUDS can retrieve any and all recorded data...

But who cares???

The bike is STILL way too much fun!

Actually, I just meant it'd drive me insane to be working for a company that knew every move I made. The overall control of my COW (y'all know by now that I call our Spyders Computers On Wheels, right?) by a computer that can screw up myriad functions that I'm perfectly capable of handling myself does tick me off, but you're certainly right, Bob, the beast is wayyyyy too much fun to lose sleep over it .... unless, of course, the damned DESS has stranded me away from home.

[RapidSpyder]

This is almost to much handle. I’m going to need counseling....

[ruralgirl]

Because the day is going to come when law enforcement and insurance and drivers license depts. will be able to read that information and judge you accordingly. You should be aware of this Bob being in the industry.

Since that day has already come for employers (like the aforementioned UPS), it's probably already here for the entities you mention. In fact, at least one insurance company advertises letting you stick a thingie in your car to track your driving habits in the hopes of letting you prove yourself worthy of paying a lower rate. One of my hay customers did that and was sorely sorry she did (various reasons I won't bore you with, but nothing that was her fault). But, the sad point is, I wouldn't be surprised if court cases already allow "black box" type info on us as they do for the commercial airline industry, e.g..

[ruralgirl]

Just another sign of the times. Orwell was right. Big Brother is watching.

Orwell didn't have a CLUE of what was REALLY going to happen!! (BTW, if you love your drone, don't hover it over my farm or my shotgun and I will mistake it for skeet).

[ruralgirl]

Actually your Insurance company or law enforcement can ASK you for the data but they cannot require you to submit it. The black box is YOUR property as is the data it contains. This has been upheld in many court cases.

Its also the largest reason you will never own a self driving car. They will all be owned by companies and provide you a service. The company that owns the vehicles will own the data and likely large enough to be self insured.

Thanks for this info; I'll pass it on to our ABATE members (that the black box has been proven to be our property).

OMG, autonomous cars ... the ultimate proof that we've gone completely insane. And, according to our Michigan ABATE secretary, they're our biggest threat as "there is no consideration or mention of motorcycles existing with self driven cars."

[PistonBlown]

On the George Orwell side. Says it all really:
orwellMOS3103_468x274.jpg

[Culpjp]

Actually your Insurance company or law enforcement can ASK you for the data but they cannot require you to submit it. The black box is YOUR property as is the data it contains. This has been upheld in many court cases.

Its also the largest reason you will never own a self driving car. They will all be owned by companies and provide you a service. The company that owns the vehicles will own the data and likely large enough to be self insured.

All that means is they need a subpoena and they can have access to the data recorder, and they will do that.

[Spiceman64]

Being an airline guy, I can tell you that hundreds, if not thousands of data elements are stored in the black (or orange) boxes. In fact, much of the data is transmitted in real time from the ACARS box on board down to HQ for analysis. We know if a pilot botched an approach, and how (too high, too low, too fast, too slow, etc.)

So yes, some companies know every move their employees make, from the minute the “office door” closes, to the minute it opens.

We use the data for engine performance info, fuel comsumption, and for training purposes. I don’t think we’ve ever fired anyone based on the data, but I don’t know that for sure.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

In fact, at least one insurance company advertises letting you stick a thingie in your car to track your driving habits in the hopes of letting you prove yourself worthy of paying a lower rate. One of my hay customers did that and was sorely sorry she did (various reasons I won't bore you with, but nothing that was her fault).

That's kind of like when I was a teenager 60 years ago. Mom always complained about her car insurance rates going up year after year. I figured out back then that buying car insurance was one time that the more honest you were the more it cost you!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Did you see the news today about how Fitbit and like devices are jeopardizing military security by the data they collect and display? My friend tells me if you want to see your own data on your phone you MUST subscribe to the satellite monitoring service.

[Bob Denman]

My Missus has a fit-Bit... that isn't true.