OEM tires improved?

[UtahPete]

Ron, I believe the reason that some dealers will mount a car tire is that they can charge for labor. Yes, they won't make money on selling a Kenda but if they were doing warranty work they wouldn't make any money on labor anyway. Charging their labor rate is better than getting nothing at all. Of the two dealers I mentioned in an earlier post, neither one have asked me to sign a waiver. I think dealers that refuse to mount a car tire are passing up business that would lead to more $$ for them versus turning the customer away!

Some dealers take the long view of developing loyal customers and some don't.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I see one of the members has deleted all his posts on this topic. Maybe he realized that he was portraying his way of doing business was wrong. I hope so or he wont be in business long. Companies need to realize that the customer is number 1. Without the customer, you dont have a business. BRP and their dealers also need to understand this. If a car tire is as safe as the OEM tires, then allow them to be installed. Go buy a trike from Honda or Harley. Both have car tires on them. It seems, the bigger the company gets, the less they care about their customers and employees. I live it every day at the company I work for. If your dealer wont put a car tire on, try another dealer. If you cant find one, change the tire yourself if you can. Or buy OEM. Not sure what other choices you have.

Wow , this could be a game changer if it's true .......... Although the Honda trike isn't factory, so the makers of the Trike Kits can do what they want ......... BUT if HD is using auto tires on their factory trikes I'd like to know how they are doing it LEGALLY ....... since BRP claims their OEM tires MUST have Motorcycle tires ....... .......... this is just a question ....... Mike

[BajaRon]

Wow , this could be a game changer if it's true .......... Although the Honda trike isn't factory, so the makers of the Trike Kits can do what they want ......... BUT if HD is using auto tires on their factory trikes I'd like to know how they are doing it LEGALLY ....... since BRP claims their OEM tires MUST have Motorcycle tires ....... .......... this is just a question ....... Mike

I don't know all of the details. But the whole 'Motorcycle' thing is a dodge to get out from under DOT regulations. The more 'Car' like the vehicle is. The more it falls under more restrictive and expensive regulations.

[Bob Denman]

Mike,
Why not take a "field trip" to the local HD shop, and see what they're putting on the Tri-Glide and Free-Wheeler?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I don't know all of the details. But the whole 'Motorcycle' thing is a dodge to get out from under DOT regulations. The more 'Car' like the vehicle is. The more it falls under more restrictive and expensive regulations.

- Ron, the point of my post on this was to find out if it REALLY is mandatory that Trikes ...MUST have Mtc. tires on them ..... ours or any other maker .....HD is a big time motorcycle manufacturer ..... and they definitely would NOT be selling their Trikes unless it was legal to have MTC. stamped tires .... and this would dis-prove BRP's claim that their Kenda's are the only legal tire for our Spyders ........ Mike

[kngfsh27]

My '17 Harley TriGlide has Dunlop car tires on the rear. Came from the factory that way. When they wear out at around 40k to 50k miles, I can go back to Dunlops or put any other car tire on that I desire.

[BajaRon]

- Ron, the point of my post on this was to find out if it REALLY is mandatory that Trikes ...MUST have Mtc. tires on them ..... ours or any other maker .....HD is a big time motorcycle manufacturer ..... and they definitely would NOT be selling their Trikes unless it was legal to have MTC. stamped tires .... and this would dis-prove BRP's claim that their Kenda's are the only legal tire for our Spyders ........ Mike

Are you sure that the Kenda tire is a 'Legal' requirement? I doubt it. But I could be wrong. Most 'Legal' issues have a 'Meets or Exceeds' clause. And a car tire would certainly meet that criteria.

[Bob Denman]

...And just to muddy the water a bit: the Slingshot has Kenda "Motorcycle" tires on it...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Are you sure that the Kenda tire is a 'Legal' requirement? I doubt it. But I could be wrong. Most 'Legal' issues have a 'Meets or Exceeds' clause. And a car tire would certainly meet that criteria.

As far as " LEGAL TIRES " are concerned...if there isn't a legal requirement ...then BRP is B.S. ing us about them being mandatory on Spyders .... Since BRP has been harping on this fact and some dealers refuse to mount car tires, frankly it pisses me off .....I've switched to car tires on all three Spyders I have owned since 09 .... and all I have ever heard from BRP is they ( mtc. tires ) are Mandatory on the Spyder ........ Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

....Joel, if it's a Canadian regulation . imho it wouldn't apply to veh's , mtc's sold in the US ....and where do you think most Spyders are sold - - - in the USA by about 30 to 1 ..... ( maybe that figure is low ) ......... just sayin ..... Mike

[trikermutha]

My '17 Harley TriGlide has Dunlop car tires on the rear. Came from the factory that way. When they wear out at around 40k to 50k miles, I can go back to Dunlops or put any other car tire on that I desire.

Hell I put Goodyear Comfort Tread tires when I had the Triglide to help soften the ride. As it rode like a tank

[asp125]

Legal or not, that question is moot for most motorcycle owners. Shops may be bound to it but we aren't - how many street legal aftermarket exhausts are there? I bet very few.

[kngfsh27]

Hell I put Goodyear Comfort Tread tires when I had the Triglide to help soften the ride. As it rode like a tank

It does ride better than an armored personnel carrier. Having the opportunity to ride in several tanks along with other tracked vehicles, I named my TriGlide "Sherman".
I was just one of the unfortunate ones who could not keep tires on my Spyder. I really loved riding it. Great machine. Tires and a couple other issues had my wife saying it had to go. Just wish BRP would spec and supply a better tire.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

- Ron, the point of my post on this was to find out if it REALLY is mandatory that Trikes ...MUST have Mtc. tires on them ..... ours or any other maker .....HD is a big time motorcycle manufacturer ..... and they definitely would NOT be selling their Trikes unless it was legal to have MTC. stamped tires .... and this would dis-prove BRP's claim that their Kenda's are the only legal tire for our Spyders ........ Mike

It's time to point out what I wrote back in July, 2016. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...=1#post1160433

When you read the quotes below you'll understand about HD trikes and other trike conversions. What rim is on their bike? It's a car rim, right? Car rim, car tire. The Spyder rim is not designed nor sold as a car rim even though the cross section profile is essentially the same as a car rim. If you dig into the bowels of NHTSA records of filings by tire manufacturers I'm sure you will find documentation that Kenda certifies their tires to fit properly on Spyder rims, and no certification for fitting car rims. No car tire manufacturer has, I'm sure, nor will they ever, certify their tire to fit properly on a Spyder rim. It's not worth the cost for them to do so, particularly if the Spyder rim is in fact ever so slightly variant from standard car rim design. No certification, no sanctioned use. I don't recall the exact requirement but NHTSA regulations state something to the effect that any tire that is not certified for car rims (maybe also truck rims) must be labeled for its intended use, hence the motorcycle use label on the Kendas and 'Not for Highway Use' on wheelbarrow tires. Trailer tires are labelled for trailer use because they are not intended nor certified for car rim use.

From the post linked above:

I'd be happy if BRP simply allowed their dealers to install non-OEM tires. All the dealers in my region won't do it, which forces me to use third-party services. Make us sign a waiver if necessary, but stop being so anal!

It is not BRP who has the reins on dealers, it's Federal regulation. Here is a quote from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, 49 CFR 571.119 - Standard No. 119; New pneumatic tires for motor vehicles with a GVWR of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) and motorcycles.

Federal Reg:

S5.1 Each manufacturer of tires shall ensure that a listing of the rims that may be used with each tire that he produces is provided to the public. For purposes of this section each rim listing shall include dimensional specifications and a diagram of the rim. However a listing compiled in accordance with paragraph (a) of this section need not include dimensional specifications or a diagram of a rim if the rim's dimensional specifications and diagram are contained in each listing published in accordance with paragraph (b) of this standard. The listing shall be in one of the following forms:
(a) Listed by manufacturer name or brand name in a document furnished to dealers of the manufacturer's tires, to any person upon request, and in duplicate to: Docket Section, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 Seventh Street SW., Washington, DC 20590; or
(b) Contained in publications, current at the date of manufacture of the tire or any later date, of at least one of the following organizations:
The Tire and Rim Association
The European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation
Japan Automobile Tire Manufacturers' Association, Inc.
Deutsche Industrie Norm
British Standards Institution
Scandinavian Tire and Rim Organization
The Tyre and Rim Association of Australia

IdahoMtnSpyder:

If the tire manufacturer does not include motorcycle rims in its list of compatible rims for a particular tire, then the manufacturer is saying that tire is not suitable to be mounted on a motorcycle rim. If you were a tire installer would you want the liability of mounting an ATV tire onto a car rim? That's an extreme example, but you get the point. Any tire installer who is willing to mount a car tire on your Spyder rim is doing so only because he has zero, or near zero, expectation of a fitment problem and no expectation you will sue him if the tire comes off the rim and causes you to crash. BRP is not going to keep in their stable of dealers those who openly flaunt Federal safety regulations. Any Spyder dealer who does mount a car tire on a m/c rim does so only because he expects such actions to stay below the radar.

We members of this forum would do well to NEVER name here on the forum ANY Can Am dealer who is willing to mount a car tire on a Spyder rim. They're doing us a favor. Let's not draw attention to them.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I don't have any Kenda Spyder tires now. So would one of you who have both Spyders with Kenda tires and two wheel motorcycles around take a look at the labels and let us know just exactly what they are. The difference in labels should be interesting to see. I can't find any good pics on Google, although I did see a pic of one two wheeler tire that was labeled "Rear wheel use only."

That info will enlighten us a bit on this discussion of car tires on Spyders.

[always young]

I've seen this same discussion on my motorcycle forum as well. Someone finally came up with the most logical answer of why you "can't" use car tires on motorcycles. The profile on the rim for the bead is different between the two. The car tire profile tends to lock the bead onto the rim. The motorcycle rim profile doesn't lock the tire on the same way. Regardless though, people have been using car tires on 2 and 3 wheeled bikes with great success for quite some time. Once my stock tires wear out on my F3 Ldt I'll be switching over as well.

[Woodaddict]

the Spyder has car like bead profiles.

[Peteoz]

I've seen this same discussion on my motorcycle forum as well. Someone finally came up with the most logical answer of why you "can't" use car tires on motorcycles. The profile on the rim for the bead is different between the two. The car tire profile tends to lock the bead onto the rim. The motorcycle rim profile doesn't lock the tire on the same way. Regardless though, people have been using car tires on 2 and 3 wheeled bikes with great success for quite some time. Once my stock tires wear out on my F3 Ldt I'll be switching over as well.

I have been looking at and discussing car tyres on motorcycles for many many years, always young, and I have NEVER seen a report of a car tyre EVER coming off a motorcycle rim. I don’t know that the above claim qualifies as a “logical” answer, as there is absolutely no evidence to back it up.

Pete

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If there is a difference between the Spyder rim and an Auto/truck rim the difference is to small to see ..... Awhile back someone here posted Pics of the outline to both done as an over-lay ..... you couldn't tell the difference ...the lines matched up perfectly ....... just sayin .... Mike

[Bob Denman]

yup!
Rob looked them over VERY closely, and pronounced the Spyder's rim to be identical to a car rim.

[Road-Kill]

Until someone shows me an actual test conducted that would be permitted in a court I'll stick with my trusted Kenda tires.
All this "talk" and what they "feel" would never be permitted in a court when you are sued in an accident using car tires.
Vehicles involved in serious accidents involving death or likely to die always get impounded and investigated by insurance companies.
They do this because claims are very expensive and they are looking to void your insurance claiming you violated the contract.

"Legalities" are everything when everything you own becomes someone else's.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Does anyone know what lamont does or recommends?

[Bob Denman]

"

Until someone shows me an actual test conducted that would be permitted in a court I'll stick with my trusted Kenda tires.
All this "talk" and what they "feel" would never be permitted in a court when you are sued in an accident using car tires.
Vehicles involved in serious accidents involving death or likely to die always get impounded and investigated by insurance companies.
They do this because claims are very expensive and they are looking to void your insurance claiming you violated the contract.

"


Nobody is telling you that you've GOT to change.
They're just saying that the World won't end; if you do!

[Raprider]

"

Until someone shows me an actual test conducted that would be permitted in a court I'll stick with my trusted Kenda tires.
All this "talk" and what they "feel" would never be permitted in a court when you are sued in an accident using car tires.
Vehicles involved in serious accidents involving death or likely to die always get impounded and investigated by insurance companies.
They do this because claims are very expensive and they are looking to void your insurance claiming you violated the contract.

"

Nobody is telling you that you've GOT to change.
They're just saying that the World won't end; if you do!

True, but Road-Kill's argument is the most logical one I've read so far...

[Road-Kill]

Does anyone know what lamont does or recommends?

Will he testify in court for you?
Will he be allowed to testify in a court?
Will he be willing to risk his business giving bad advice?

What Lamont does personally versus professionally will never be discussed on this forum, none of us will.

None of those babbling about tires on this forum are tire engineers and as such are not professionals in this field.
If they were they could be sued for giving "bad advice".