Well we do live under a variable star ( a G2V type star) on a planet with an elliptical orbit with an axis that does wobble a bit. When these effects come into play the temperature of the earth will seem to change. The stacking effect ( machining and engineering term) is real ( in my humble opinion) Over a LOOOOONG period of time the change tends to average out. Over our SHORRRRRRT lives it may seem to make a big difference.
Let the flaming and fake news begin
Lew L
Last edited by Lew L; 01-02-2018 at 04:01 PM.
Reason: speeling
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
Well we do live under a variable star ( a G2V type star) on a planet with an elliptical orbit with an axis that does wobble a bit. When these effects come into play the temperature of the earth will seem to change. The stacking effect ( machining and engineering term) is real ( in my humble opinion) Over a LOOOOONG period of time the change tends to average out. Over our SHORRRRRRT lives it may seem to make a big difference.
I accept that global warming is real because it's the consensus of the scientific community, give or take a couple of outliers, and because I trust people who are smarter than I am who have actually studied the issue and come to that conclusion ... people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are. It is the height of arrogance to deny facts just because they don't fit your opinion or your pocketbook, and I honestly can't take anyone seriously who thinks global warming is real because it's hot today or denies it because it's cold outside today. That's not how global phenomenons work. As Lew points out, there are many variables involved in this global phenomenon. The variables he mentions are at a solar-system scale and he's absolutely right about them, but one variable he didn't mention is the one within our control right here on Earth, and that's the composition of the atmosphere. It cannot be seriously denied that CO2 causes a greenhouse effect and the scientists say the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has dramatically increased over, say, the last 100 years. Certainly that does not prove that the CO2 is the sole cause of the global warming OR that mankind was the sole source of the CO2. OTOH, it seems pretty darned stupid to knowingly pumping more and more CO2 into the atmosphere in the midst of global warming, whether that CO2 is the sole cause of the warming or simply a minor contribution. Adding more CO2 is like putting fertilizer on the weeds in your garden; it can only make the problem worse. Moreover, while the temperature will undoubtedly average out over a LOOOOOONG period of time, that will be small comfort if the high temperatures make the Earth uninhabitable during the SHORRRRRRT lives of ourselves and our children and grandchildren. That's why the problem can't be ignored -- and why I support efforts to control CO2 emissions [although Chinese coal-burning power plants are such high emitters of CO2 that they should be the first ones to be controlled].
I accept that global warming is real because it's the consensus of the scientific community, give or take a couple of outliers, and because I trust people who are smarter than I am who have actually studied the issue and come to that conclusion ... people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are. It is the height of arrogance to deny facts just because they don't fit your opinion or your pocketbook, and I honestly can't take anyone seriously who thinks global warming is real because it's hot today or denies it because it's cold outside today. That's not how global phenomenons work. As Lew points out, there are many variables involved in this global phenomenon. The variables he mentions are at a solar-system scale and he's absolutely right about them, but one variable he didn't mention is the one within our control right here on Earth, and that's the composition of the atmosphere. It cannot be seriously denied that CO2 causes a greenhouse effect and the scientists say the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has dramatically increased over, say, the last 100 years. Certainly that does not prove that the CO2 is the sole cause of the global warming OR that mankind was the sole source of the CO2. OTOH, it seems pretty darned stupid to knowingly pumping more and more CO2 into the atmosphere in the midst of global warming, whether that CO2 is the sole cause of the warming or simply a minor contribution. Adding more CO2 is like putting fertilizer on the weeds in your garden; it can only make the problem worse. Moreover, while the temperature will undoubtedly average out over a LOOOOOONG period of time, that will be small comfort if the high temperatures make the Earth uninhabitable during the SHORRRRRRT lives of ourselves and our children and grandchildren. That's why the problem can't be ignored -- and why I support efforts to control CO2 emissions [although Chinese coal-burning power plants are such high emitters of CO2 that they should be the first ones to be controlled].
AMEN!!!!
One thing it seems far too few are aware of is the fact that China is leading the way in solar and wind energy technologies. The U.S. seems to be content to sit along side the road and watch the world pass us by.
On the road again...........and forever young!
2013 RT-S SE 5
Yesterday is a cancelled check.
Tomorrow is a promissory note.
Today is cash.......spend it wisely.
One thing it seems far too few are aware of is the fact that China is leading the way in solar and wind energy technologies. The U.S. seems to be content to sit along side the road and watch the world pass us by.
I’m not sure if the climat change is our fault or not. It does tend to fluctuate once every few years or so. That said 2017 was the hottest year on record in Las Vegas,NV. Of course weather records have only been kept here since 1937 so...
I have noticed big changes in the sixty six I have existed on this planet don't know if they are good or not, but in the year of 1997 we here in the red river valley had over 100 inches of snow new record i went out and spent time with friends to help sand bag homes. We had one of the worst floods in modern times the whole downtown of Grand Forks burned and flooded because the dikes over flowed and emergency vehicles couldn't get to where they needed, it wasn't but a year or two later we we're flooded again the emergency management officials in Fargo evacuated the nursing home i worked at saying it was another 100 year flooding event, the memory of the last flood was still fresh in my memory. To say that every thing hunky dory is in my opinion is not right. Hope my punctuation and sentence construction is better, my son is an English teacher not me. I know I am opinionated but that is just me.
I accept that global warming is real because it's the consensus of the scientific community, give or take a couple of outliers, and because I trust people who are smarter than I am who have actually studied the issue and come to that conclusion ...
About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming. Hasn't happened, now we are going the other way. There was concensus amoung scientists that Neanderthal man was part of the evolutionary chain leading to homo sapien, saw it in all my science books. About 10-15 years ago, they discovered that Neanderthal and homo sapien were contemporaries in the Middle East, Neanderthals died out and homo sapien continued.
Much of science is educated guesses about what did happen or what will happen. They are still guesses, many have proven wrong.
My un-educated guess is that any warming that has taken place is because of the radiant heat produced by all of the concrete and asphalt that has been poured in the last 50 years. March across a grass field, then across an asphalt road in Mississippi in August and you will see what I mean. I live in a rual area. The temps in the city range anywhere from 5-10 warmer. It's radiant heat.
About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming. Hasn't happened, now we are going the other way. There was concensus amoung scientists that Neanderthal man was part of the evolutionary chain leading to homo sapien, saw it in all my science books. About 10-15 years ago, they discovered that Neanderthal and homo sapien were contemporaries in the Middle East, Neanderthals died out and homo sapien continued.
Much of science is educated guesses about what did happen or what will happen. They are still guesses, many have proven wrong.
My un-educated guess is that any warming that has taken place is because of the radiant heat produced by all of the concrete and asphalt that has been poured in the last 50 years. March across a grass field, then across an asphalt road in Mississippi in August and you will see what I mean. I live in a rual area. The temps in the city range anywhere from 5-10 warmer. It's radiant heat.
I'm suspicious about the data sources. I know for a fact that the temp sensor for downtown Los Angeles was moved from a green belt in Exposition Park to the center of a concrete plaza at the Department of Water and Power. I know that's a fact because I installed the phone and data lines that the sensor reports on. Climate change exists, the climate has always been changing, but how much of it is man-made and how much of a threat is it in reality? Some places will get warmer and less fertile, others with get warmer and more fertile. It's not the end of the world, Homo Sapiens is a very adaptable species.
Last edited by CA Railwhale; 01-04-2018 at 01:00 PM.
warming that has taken place is because of the radiant heat produced by all of the concrete and asphalt that has been poured in the last 50 years. March across a grass field, then across an asphalt road in Mississippi in August and you will see what I mean. I live in a rual area. The temps in the city range anywhere from 5-10 warmer. It's radiant heat.
I agree that is a major source of man-made warming, but certainly not the only one. The first step is to agree there is an adverse impact on our environment from man-made sources. Some we can do something about and some we can't. But, first we have to stop burying our head in the sand and acknowledge what is going on and why.
Many years ( lets say 70 or so) NOAA and other weather agencies put weather stations near cities BUT unaffected by the pavement and concrete. The cities GREW to encompass the weather stations ( I've seen one in a parking lot) and now MANY are in the " heat Island" as stated above. Will this effect the temperature data?????? I believe so.
Not mentioned in my previous rant about Global Warming------ Ocean currents in both the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans vary on multi decade long cycles just like sun spots. Again the stacking effect of many energies effecting the temperature of the Earth ( both lowering and raising it). The Pacific is greatly effected by the El Nino a La Nina current changes. Right NOW a huge COLD system is headed to the Atlantic. Will it effect the Gulf Stream current as it goes north and them passes Scotland on its way to make weather changes NEXT year???
OH ya------ The "Mounder Minium " -- A very cold period of low temperature just a blink of geological time in the recent past (1645 to 1710 or so). " The year without a summer" and George Washington crossing a Frozen river might have something to do with the stacking of earths' and suns many weather related phenomenon.
Well the flaming will continue and I'll try to find more interesting facts about " Global Warming"
Lew L
Last edited by Lew L; 01-03-2018 at 05:06 PM.
Reason: speeling
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming. Hasn't happened, now we are going the other way. There was concensus amoung scientists that Neanderthal man was part of the evolutionary chain leading to homo sapien, saw it in all my science books. About 10-15 years ago, they discovered that Neanderthal and homo sapien were contemporaries in the Middle East, Neanderthals died out and homo sapien continued.
The "ice age" consensus was not real, it was media-driven. See https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age...termediate.htm
"A survey of peer reviewed scientific papers from 1965 to 1979 show that few papers predicted global cooling (7 in total). Significantly more papers (42 in total) predicted global warming (Peterson 2008). The large majority of climate research in the 1970s predicted the Earth would warm as a consequence of CO2. Rather than 1970s scientists predicting cooling, the opposite is the case."
I also went to school in the 1970s and never once did I hear that Neanderthals were supposedly part of the evolutionary chain. Moreover, I've found a 1992 NY Times article (precisely 15 years ago) that says this about your so-called "consensus": "Scientists have been arguing about Neanderthals since the discovery of a partial skull in a cave in the Neander Valley of Germany in 1856." http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/04/science/neanderthals-dead-end-or-ancestor.html?pagewanted=all. Arguing about it since 1856. Now that's some consensus you have there!
Last edited by johnsimion; 01-03-2018 at 05:11 PM.
About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming.
I studied natural resources management from 1972 to 1976. I studied temperatures follow cycles and we were going to enter a cooling phase, CO2 was increasing, particulate matter was decreasing (bad for lungs but cools the earth), plant growth increases in response to CO2 thus removing it from the air, we were destroying the ability of plant growth on the earth to act as a buffer, ... I am guessing the consensus was they had no idea what would happen.
btw - Since I planned clearcuts, environmental groups made it clear people like me were bad.
I studied natural resources management from 1972 to 1976. I studied temperatures follow cycles and we were going to enter a cooling phase, CO2 was increasing, particulate matter was decreasing (bad for lungs but cools the earth), plant growth increases in response to CO2 thus removing it from the air, we were destroying the ability of plant growth on the earth to act as a buffer, ... I am guessing the consensus was they had no idea what would happen. btw - Since I planned clearcuts, environmental groups made it clear people like me were bad.
That was before personal computers, smart phones and digital cameras, etc. I think science has made some strides since then.
.. people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are.
I am am so pleased that you claim to stand on much higher ground, because you trust the "people that have nothing to gain". Mr. Gore certainly made no money from the books, speeches, carbon credit bank scam, and the "smarter" minions that he paid after counseling them to adopt and confirm his project I am sure made nothing from it.
Just because you only read and research one side of an issue does not make it fact.
there are plenty of real, respected and trusted researchers out there that have been bunking this "man made" global warming issue. Most of them admit that we did go through some periods of change in recent decades, but there was also during that same period an unusually high activity from the sun at the same time, meanwhile in the more recent decade we seem to be cooling off.
There is so much more, especially on this CO2 issue, but hey, it is a poison to us so we should limit it, but then we claim that we don't have enough trees and it is good for the trees.
Time will tell, but neither me, my kids nor theirs will be here for the demise, either way it goes.
Joe
Last edited by Buckeye Bleau; 01-03-2018 at 06:52 AM.
OK................
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Originally Posted by Lew L
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