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  1. #1
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default Front Spring Spacers

    I was looking at the front suspension and I noticed a difference between the rubber spacers on the left and right springs. Here are some pics.

    Left side:
    IMG_5849.jpg

    Right side:
    IMG_0509.jpg

    You can see how the rubber is different between them. Which one is correct, or does it matter?

    Not sure what the deal is below with it showing thumbnails of the same pic.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by mark4Jesus; 11-19-2017 at 08:39 PM.
    2013 RT Limited.
    BajaRon Sway Bar.
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  2. #2
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Default

    Mark, Those 'spacers' are someone's cheap after-market addition to the springs put on in an attempt to increase the static pre-load on the coils by stopping some of the coils compressing... & they are virtually impossible to make match each other side to side; & even if the length does exactly match, their location is almost impossible to get exactly the same as well!! And that means your front springs WILL be set-up to respond somewhat differently from side to side, which may very well introduce dangerous handling or suspension response characteristics into your ride & steering!!

    I would strongly recommend that you immediately remove ALL of those 'spacers' & look at replacing them with something more readily matched &/or adjusted equally from side to side. BajaRon does some pretty good coil adjusters, even the small eccentric bolt type adjusters from Doc (? that's right, isn't it?) are much better & quite readily matched by putting them in the same place on each coil. If those rubber 'spacers' were EXACTLY the same length & size/consistency AND positioned in EXACTLY the same place on each coil, they would be less likely to be dangerously miss-matched; but as they are now, they are effectively an accident looking for somewhere to happen!!

    A 'cheap fix' in something that is as extremely critical to your ryding safety as the front steering/suspension is usually not a great idea, at least not unless the fix has been carefully thought out & executed properly in a manner that is readily able to be reproduced identically (or very close to that) on each side!!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 11-19-2017 at 10:50 PM.
    2013 RT Ltd Pearl White

    Ryde More, Worry Less!

  3. #3
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Default

    Mark,

    Those rubber items are used to prevent spring coils from compressing. Based on your pics, it looks like the length was cut to isolate 1 coil winding. The top pic has it installed incorrectly so it is going to affect more than the lower pic.

    By isolating a coil winding (spring will not compress where the rubber is), it effectively stiffens the spring. This devise does not change the preload, only the effective rate of the spring.

    The RT springs are a bit weak. If you are a heavy rider and/or ride 2 up a lot, then you might try keeping them in but I would suggest you you change the one in the upper pic to be like the one in the lower pic. They will be very hard to get out and put back in. You might consider a little dish soap to help get them in after you get it out.

    Jerry

    edit:

    Formula to estimate col spring stiffness:


    You can see in the denominator, the term for number of active coils in the spring. If you isolate a coil, the denominator gets smaller = stiffer spring.
    Last edited by spacetiger; 11-19-2017 at 09:21 PM.
    13 ST Limited F/R suspension, Corbin, GIVI top case

    16 Vespa Primavera 150: Stock
    16 Piaggio BV350: Suspension, braking mods in work
    14 HD XL1200T: F/R suspension and brake mods; Corbin saddle and bags
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  4. #4
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default

    Peter, makes sense! Looking at them, I saw where these caused uneven spacing between the coils. I thought that seemed strange. These would also keep the springs from compressing evenly.
    2013 RT Limited.
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  5. #5
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spacetiger View Post
    Mark,

    Those rubber items are used to prevent spring coils from compressing. Based on your pics, it looks like the length was cut to isolate 1 coil winding. The top pic has it installed incorrectly so it is going to affect more than the lower pic.

    By isolating a coil winding (spring will not compress where the rubber is), it effectively stiffens the spring. This devise does not change the preload, only the effective rate of the spring.

    The RT springs are a bit weak. If you are a heavy rider and/or ride 2 up a lot, then you might try keeping them in but I would suggest you you change the one in the upper pic to be like the one in the lower pic. They will be very hard to get out and put back in. You might consider a little dish soap to help get them in after you get it out.

    Jerry
    Seems like it would be better to buy the adjustable springs instead. I am 225, not sure if that would be heavier rider, probably!
    2013 RT Limited.
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  6. #6
    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Agree....

    your better off without those. If you do go with the ones Peter mentions above you will see the difference. Doc's are fast and easy to install and are effective but to adjust them they need to be moved added or taken out. BajaRon's are harder to install but the adjustment is with a tool provided (I think) But whatever you do do it the same for both sides...like the air in the tires...
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
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    2012 RS sm5 , 998cc V-Twin 106hp DIY brake and park brake Classic Black

  7. #7
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Default

    https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/

    under suspension in products

  8. #8
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default THOSE SPRING THINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Mark, Those 'spacers' are someone's cheap after-market addition to the springs put on in an attempt to increase the static pre-load on the coils by stopping some of the coils compressing... & they are virtually impossible to make match each other side to side; & even if the length does exactly match, their location is almost impossible to get exactly the same as well!! And that means your front springs WILL be set-up to respond somewhat differently from side to side, which may very well introduce dangerous handling or suspension response characteristics into your ride & steering!!

    I would strongly recommend that you immediately remove ALL of those 'spacers' & look at replacing them with something more readily matched &/or adjusted equally from side to side. BajaRon does some pretty good coil adjusters, even the small eccentric bolt type adjusters from Doc (? that's right, isn't it?) are much better & quite readily matched by putting them in the same place on each coil. If those rubber 'spacers' were EXACTLY the same length & size/consistency AND positioned in EXACTLY the same place on each coil, they would be less likely to be dangerously miss-matched; but as they are now, they are effectively an accident looking for somewhere to happen!!

    A 'cheap fix' in something that is as extremely critical to your ryding safety as the front steering/suspension is usually not a great idea, at least not unless the fix has been carefully thought out & executed properly in a manner that is readily able to be reproduced identically (or very close to that) on each side!!
    & .......... What hasn't been mentioned is the BAD thing that happens when you reduce the Spring Length by COMPRESSING it .... You will have a Harsher ride .... Less spring = harsher ride ...there is no getting around this fact ........ BRP had pre-load COLLARS for springs for years and after receiving many complaints about how hard the ride became after Compressing the spring ....they did away with it ...Years ago Lenny aka Pitbull made a Part that would change the Angle of the front shocks ....but kept the spring Full Length and kept the nice ride UNTILL you rode it in a very BRISK manner .... then the shocks would get " FIRMER " but not HARSHER .....this explanation has been reduced to an understandable version .... The Physics version would give most people a headache .... If you change the angle of the shock it changes the way it reacts in a good way ..... Mike

  9. #9
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    your better off without those. If you do go with the ones Peter mentions above you will see the difference. Doc's are fast and easy to install and are effective but to adjust them they need to be moved added or taken out. BajaRon's are harder to install but the adjustment is with a tool provided (I think) But whatever you do do it the same for both sides...like the air in the tires...
    I looked at Doc's. Where do I find BajaRon's to compare? I looked on Lamonster's site but did not see them.
    2013 RT Limited.
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  10. #10
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/

    under suspension in products
    I noticed that some have one per shock, some two per shock. What determines how many?
    2013 RT Limited.
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  11. #11
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark4Jesus View Post
    I noticed that some have one per shock, some two per shock. What determines how many?
    Based upon ryder's weight and how aggressive your style of ryding. Some only need one per side and most will use two. Never had anyone complain about the the ryde being harsher. In fact, the OEM shocks are so soft, adding these makes it more stable.

  12. #12
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Based upon ryder's weight and how aggressive your style of ryding. Some only need one per side and most will use two. Never had anyone complain about the the ryde being harsher. In fact, the OEM shocks are so soft, adding these makes it more stable.
    I don't ride very aggressive. What weight is the step up to two per side?
    2013 RT Limited.
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    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark4Jesus View Post
    I don't ride very aggressive. What weight is the step up to two per side?
    If you ryde mostly two up, you would do best with two. They were created because the wife did not like feeling like she was coming off of the seat in the curves. This helps to stop the yaw when you corner. We had tried the Ron bar and it helped some, just not enough. She also didn't like the buffeting we got when passing or getting passed by a big rig on the interstate. This also really helped that. We also noticed that we didn't bottom out near as bad,which was a bonus.

    We have a try before you buy at any rally we are at or you can schedule to come by the shop here in Indiana. We plan on doing about 6 rallies next year. btw: Out of all the other manufacturers, to my knowledge we are the only one that offers a lifetime warranty. Each one is built by hand by me and are pretty much bulletproof. Easy to install and remove also.
    Scroll down to the install video if you haven't already seen it:

    https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/how-to-videos

  14. #14
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default

    Based on unanimous comments, I am going to remove the rubber stiffeners. I am going to order Doc's right now and install them. Now I need to do some searching and find the best way to jack the front up to remove the rubber. I have a motorcycle jack, and I have read posts on placing it, I will go back and find those.

    Question though, do I need to raise it to get the rubber stiffeners out?

    Thanks for the help!
    2013 RT Limited.
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    Why not wait until you get your Docs stiffeners in. You will change how the ride feels once you remove the rubber. JMO.

    Its not hurting anything right now..

    I am sure I will get corrected based on my comments

  16. #16
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Default

    You can always find what I sell specifically for the Spyder with the link below. There is also a clickable banner ad on the Home Page here on Spyderlovers. I sell other items like helmets, jackets, pants, rain gear, heated clothing, etc. which are not listed here.

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...rs-amp-Helmets
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  17. #17
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark4Jesus View Post
    Based on unanimous comments, I am going to remove the rubber stiffeners. I am going to order Doc's right now and install them. Now I need to do some searching and find the best way to jack the front up to remove the rubber. I have a motorcycle jack, and I have read posts on placing it, I will go back and find those.

    Question though, do I need to raise it to get the rubber stiffeners out?

    Thanks for the help!
    Mark,

    I don't want to take a sale away from anyone, but you should consider all your options before putting the cash out. There are so many options out there and confusion about the different "solutions".

    - Some riders like devises that increase the preload on the oem spring. If you are slightly heavier than the oem springs can handle, then preload spacers might work for you.

    - Some riders like the devise you currently have on your bike. These coil isolaters also use the oem spring but by isolating 1 or 2 coils, you can stiffen up your oem spring. This option can increase your total capacity (shock bottoming) more than a preload spacer. The only downside with isolating more than 1 coil is it forces the remaining coils to handle the greater load. The spring will wear out at some point losing some of its stiffness.




    - Then there is the option to buy expensive shocks with the potential for stiffer springs on the aftermarket shocks. This is the most expensive option to stiffen up the suspension.



    - And then there is my favorite option... just change the springs. They cost about $85 a spring, so about $170 to swap out the springs. Here are 2 pics of the springs I put on the oem fox shocks; before and after. In the after, you can see the difference between the fox and oem ST shock. Let me know if you need help going this route.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by spacetiger; 11-20-2017 at 08:59 PM.
    13 ST Limited F/R suspension, Corbin, GIVI top case

    16 Vespa Primavera 150: Stock
    16 Piaggio BV350: Suspension, braking mods in work
    14 HD XL1200T: F/R suspension and brake mods; Corbin saddle and bags
    09 Aprilia SC250: F/R suspension and minor brake mods
    97 Honda PC800: F/R wheels, F/R suspension, and F/R brake Mods; Corbin saddle
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  18. #18
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spacetiger View Post
    Mark,

    I don't want to take a sale away from anyone, but you should consider all your options before putting the cash out. There are so many options out there and confusion about the different "solutions".

    - Some riders like devises that increase the preload on the oem spring. If you are slightly heavier than the oem springs can handle, then preload spacers might work for you.

    - Some riders like the devise you currently have on your bike. These coil isolaters also use the oem spring but by isolating 1 or 2 coils, you can stiffen up your oem spring. This option can increase your total capacity (shock bottoming) more than a preload spacer. The only downside with isolating more than 1 coil is it forces the remaining coils to handle the greater load. The spring will wear out at some point losing some of its stiffness.




    - Then there is the option to buy expensive shocks with the potential for stiffer springs on the aftermarket shocks. This is the most expensive option to stiffen up the suspension.



    - And then there is my favorite option... just change the springs. They cost about $85 a spring, so about $170 to swap out the springs. Here are 2 pics of the springs I put on the oem fox shocks; before and after. In the after, you can see the difference between the fox and oem ST shock. Let me know if you need help going this route.
    Thanks, I appreciate the info. I didn't know that changing springs was a option. I did look at replacement shocks, that is a very expensive option. I have OEM shocks, are they Fox on the 2013 RT's? I supposed I could look! Where is a source for new springs?
    2013 RT Limited.
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  19. #19
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark4Jesus View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate the info. I didn't know that changing springs was a option. I did look at replacement shocks, that is a very expensive option. I have OEM shocks, are they Fox on the 2013 RT's? I supposed I could look! Where is a source for new springs?
    Hypercoil (blue) or Eibach (red) springs can be found; do a google search, there are many options.

    - On your current shocks, do they have any any preload adjustability?

    - What is your weight?

    - Do you ride 2 up?

    The 2013 RT is different than the 2012 RT (I had the 2012 RT first: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ont-Suspension

    I have a 2013 ST Limited. With the revised body mounting, you will not need as stiff a spring as the one I used on the 2012 RT. Once you post back the answers to the questions above, I can suggest a spring rating so you can consider your options before actually buying. I'll post more data on the 2013 spring swap on Wed evening when I get home.

    Jerry
    13 ST Limited F/R suspension, Corbin, GIVI top case

    16 Vespa Primavera 150: Stock
    16 Piaggio BV350: Suspension, braking mods in work
    14 HD XL1200T: F/R suspension and brake mods; Corbin saddle and bags
    09 Aprilia SC250: F/R suspension and minor brake mods
    97 Honda PC800: F/R wheels, F/R suspension, and F/R brake Mods; Corbin saddle
    90 CB-1: In work, long term project
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  20. #20
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    Default I know I'm going to take a beating over this ..........

    But here goes. Mark, spacetigher is right. Move the one spacer to match the location in the coils like the other spacer. Use a jack to raise one or both sides of the spyder to remove the spring pressure. Use a piece of plastic or small wooden tool to pry the spacer away from the spring to make the spacer easy to move. Dawn dish soap makes the job much easier. I've remove and installed mine more than once to test the ride and handling. They are not difficult to remove and replace. If you don't think the spacers help to improve handling, then remove them and see how you like the ride. I have many thousands of miles on my spyder with those spacers installed and I've never had a problem with them at all.

  21. #21
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    But here goes. Mark, spacetigher is right. Move the one spacer to match the location in the coils like the other spacer. Use a jack to raise one or both sides of the spyder to remove the spring pressure. Use a piece of plastic or small wooden tool to pry the spacer away from the spring to make the spacer easy to move. Dawn dish soap makes the job much easier. I've remove and installed mine more than once to test the ride and handling. They are not difficult to remove and replace. If you don't think the spacers help to improve handling, then remove them and see how you like the ride. I have many thousands of miles on my spyder with those spacers installed and I've never had a problem with them at all.
    I was hoping someone would do this...

    Best free option to try before the harder stuff. There, no beating.

    Jerry
    13 ST Limited F/R suspension, Corbin, GIVI top case

    16 Vespa Primavera 150: Stock
    16 Piaggio BV350: Suspension, braking mods in work
    14 HD XL1200T: F/R suspension and brake mods; Corbin saddle and bags
    09 Aprilia SC250: F/R suspension and minor brake mods
    97 Honda PC800: F/R wheels, F/R suspension, and F/R brake Mods; Corbin saddle
    90 CB-1: In work, long term project
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  22. #22
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Doc's spring stifferers.

    I have Doc's stiffeners and along with a stiffer anti-sway bar I really like the responsive, more precise handling since these additions. I'm not a heavy as some here ( about a buck 80 with gear on) but I have lots of mountain passes that are ridden each summer, spring and fall. Wishing "nanny" could be adjusted like on many sport bikes.

    Lew L
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  23. #23
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Took the rubber spacers out yesterday and went for a little curvy ride today. The front does move more into a turn, but not a huge difference. I have BajaRon's sway bar, so I am sure that helps a lot. It is a much more comfortable ride overall. With the spacers in, it was very stiff over bump and road imperfections and could be a little harsh. Without them it is much softer over the bumps, etc. I suppose it is a tradeoff.
    2013 RT Limited.
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  24. #24
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default THOSE SPRING THINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by mark4Jesus View Post
    Took the rubber spacers out yesterday and went for a little curvy ride today. The front does move more into a turn, but not a huge difference. I have BajaRon's sway bar, so I am sure that helps a lot. It is a much more comfortable ride overall. With the spacers in, it was very stiff over bump and road imperfections and could be a little harsh. Without them it is much softer over the bumps, etc. I suppose it is a tradeoff.
    Another solution is in my post # 8, on this subject ..... I see you have read it already, so I won't re-type it ..... Mike

  25. #25
    Active Member mark4Jesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Another solution is in my post # 8, on this subject ..... I see you have read it already, so I won't re-type it ..... Mike
    Is that Pitbull Powersports? I tried to get on their website and couldn't. Is it still available?

    P.S. Physics doesn't give me a headache. I'm a techie guy.
    2013 RT Limited.
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