How does the Semi Automatic work?

[SpyderSkeets]

Hi folks!
Just trying to get a better understanding of my Spyder.

My driveway is on a slight hill. I like to pull in and when I am leaving, I start her up, put her in 1st gear and then coast backward down the hill and once on the road, I roll on the throttle to go forward. I can easily manually roll the Spyder whether or not it is in gear. How does the Semi-Automatic tranny work? Allow me to elaborate. Does it work in the same manner as a paddle shifter on an automatic car (plus allowing automatic down shifting)? Does it have some sort of internal(centrifugal?) clutch? It may be a silly question, but I am just trying to understand how you can roll the Spyder while it is in gear.

Thanks!
Ed

[ARtraveler]

Hi folks!
Just trying to get a better understanding of my Spyder.

My driveway is on a slight hill. I like to pull in and when I am leaving, I start her up, put her in 1st gear and then coast backward down the hill and once on the road, I roll on the throttle to go forward. I can easily manually roll the Spyder whether or not it is in gear. How does the Semi-Automatic tranny work? Allow me to elaborate. Does it work in the same manner as a paddle shifter on an automatic car (plus allowing automatic down shifting)? Does it have some sort of internal(centrifugal?) clutch? It may be a silly question, but I am just trying to understand how you can roll the Spyder while it is in gear.

Thanks!
Ed

With throttle off, I am guessing not connected. Centrifugal system maybe??????? I can leave it in first waiting for red light and take foot off brake--does not roll forward for me.

I do use the brake for safety though.

[Peter Aawen]

It's not actually an automatic gearbox in the way most understand autos, it's exactly the same GEARBOX as that in the manual Spyders! So it's really a MANUAL GEARBOX, with the added feature of computer controlled electric solenoid shifting.

The computer has a 'fail-safe down change' feature built in, & the clutch is a centrifugal clutch until 2014 when they changed it to a oil pressure based hydraulic/electric solenoid activated unit. So really, you should treat your Spyder's 'semi-auto' exactly the same way you would the manual, with the added caveat that the computer will ensure your paddle activated changes are d one properly & safely, restricting you from making them if things aren't safe, and if you stuff up so much that you are at risk of lugging the engine when you shouldn't, the computer will trigger changing down to a more appropriate gear!

With the 2013 & earlier centrifugal clutches, you really need to keep the revs up over about 3200-3500 rpm before feeding in too much demand for torque or you risk clutch damage, but with the oil pressure operated electro/hydraulic clutch on the later models, you don't need to worry so much about that, altho low revs generally means lower oil pressure & that can allow more clutch slip than is ideal, so maybe you should consider keeping your revs up enough to maintain oil pressure....

As to why it will roll like that, the clutch isn't engaging until you feed in throttle!

[UtahPete]

It's not actually an automatic gearbox in the way most understand autos, it's exactly the same GEARBOX as that in the manual Spyders! So it's really a MANUAL GEARBOX, with the added feature of computer controlled electric solenoid shifting. .... As to why it will roll like that, the clutch isn't engaging until you feed in throttle!

Great explanation, Peter.

[bushrat]

Great explanation, Peter.

I'll happily second that!! Best explanation yet seen. Thanks, Peter.

[cmbspyderrss]

I'll happily second that!! Best explanation yet seen. Thanks, Peter.

Third. Learned my first new thing today. Awesome explanation.

[Little Blue]

My 2016 RTL will roll at the stoplight. I thought this was a problem, but the Dealer said that why you keep your foot on the brake. Normal, And thanks for the in depth information.

[RinconRyder]

My 2016 RTL will roll at the stoplight. I thought this was a problem, but the Dealer said that why you keep your foot on the brake. Normal, And thanks for the in depth information.

My '16 RTL will not roll in gear on a level surface unless I increase the rev's past 1,000 RPM (approximately). I do keep my brake engaged at a stop light though so the vehicle behind me knows I am stopped.

[Bob Denman]

Peter nailed it: with one tiny addition...
Unlike a normal motorcycle clutch that is normally engaged (until you pull in the clutch lever to disengage it...); the ESSIES have either a centrifugal (pre-2014), or hydraulic (post-2013), that allow it to engage.
That's why you can roll them around while they're in gear: nothing happens until things start spinning fast enough.

[missouriboy]

It will roll "in gear" because when the clutch is disengaged, the gears don't matter: no matter which of the three transmissions your Spyder has, a disengaged clutch is the same as in a stick-shift car. It's as simple as that.

[billybovine]

It's not actually an automatic gearbox in the way most understand autos, it's exactly the same GEARBOX as that in the manual Spyders! So it's really a MANUAL GEARBOX, with the added feature of computer controlled electric solenoid shifting.

The computer has a 'fail-safe down change' feature built in, & the clutch is a centrifugal clutch until 2014 when they changed it to a oil pressure based hydraulic/electric solenoid activated unit. So really, you should treat your Spyder's 'semi-auto' exactly the same way you would the manual, with the added caveat that the computer will ensure your paddle activated changes are d one properly & safely, restricting you from making them if things aren't safe, and if you stuff up so much that you are at risk of lugging the engine when you shouldn't, the computer will trigger changing down to a more appropriate gear!

With the 2013 & earlier centrifugal clutches, you really need to keep the revs up over about 3200-3500 rpm before feeding in too much demand for torque or you risk clutch damage, but with the oil pressure operated electro/hydraulic clutch on the later models, you don't need to worry so much about that, altho low revs generally means lower oil pressure & that can allow more clutch slip than is ideal, so maybe you should consider keeping your revs up enough to maintain oil pressure....

As to why it will roll like that, the clutch isn't engaging until you feed in throttle!

All 998 SE engines have a centrifugal clutch for engagement. With a hydraulic/electric override for shifting. So that would be model years 2008 to 2016. All 1330 SE engines have clutches that are hydraulic/electric only. That would be models starting in 2014 to present.

[newbert]

All 998 SE engines have a centrifugal clutch for engagement. With a hydraulic/electric override for shifting. So that would be model years 2008 to 2016. All 1330 SE engines have clutches that are hydraulic/electric only. That would be models starting in 2014 to present.

Interesting thread that's raised a related question in my mind.

On my 2016 F3T SE, it's impossible for me to "coast". IOW, when I get off the throttle, I immediately slow down significantly (without applying the brake). Is that normal?

[mark4Jesus]

Interesting thread that's raised a related question in my mind.

On my 2016 F3T SE, it's impossible for me to "coast". IOW, when I get off the throttle, I immediately slow down significantly (without applying the brake). Is that normal?

Mine does the same.

[Bob Denman]

That's "Norbal"...

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Interesting thread that's raised a related question in my mind.

On my 2016 F3T SE, it's impossible for me to "coast". IOW, when I get off the throttle, I immediately slow down significantly (without applying the brake). Is that normal?

Yes, that's because the clutch stays engaged until the engine drops down to idle, in which case it will also downshift all the way to first. What this does mean though, is if you are traveling at highway speed and inadvertently hit the kill switch, as soon as you turn it back on the engine resumes running. The first time it happened to me it shook me up. Subsequently it has been no big deal, other than I have to resume cruise control. The kill switch is easy to trip when you reach over the handlebar to mess with something up in the dash area.

[mark4Jesus]

I have noticed that once mine heats up, shifting has a louder clunk to it, not overly loud, just louder. I have been experimenting to find a sweet spot for smoother shifting. Seems to be around 5200 rpm once its warm. But, that seems to depend on speed and which gear I am shifting to. To me, part of the fun of a new bike is learning its unique characteristics and how to smoothly operate it.

[GOZFST]

Peter nailed it: with one tiny addition...
Unlike a normal motorcycle clutch that is normally engaged (until you pull in the clutch lever to disengage it...); the ESSIES have either a centrifugal (pre-2014), or hydraulic (post-2013), that allow it to engage.
That's why you can roll them around while they're in gear: nothing happens until things start spinning fast enough.

"pre 2014 0r post 2013" ??? before 2014 and after 2013.

[Chupaca]

Pretty darn well..many folks like it ... sorry just had to... but it does seem that BRP is phasing the manual out...