Page 8 of 22 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast
Results 176 to 200 of 541
  1. #176
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Cary, North Carolina
    Posts
    90
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    Got my Spyder back today after having the sprocket replaced. Old part # was 2131. New part # on work order is 2134. But when I pulled the cover to check there were no numbers on the sprocket. Just an X on the edge at 180 degrees and one at 360 degrees.
    I'm just wondering if it's on backwards, I haven't seen one off yet, so I don't know if there's an offset to it!

  2. #177
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    I'm just wondering if it's on backwards, I haven't seen one off yet, so I don't know if there's an offset to it!
    Crap, I was thinking the same thing. The replacement I got has 4 X's on the back. The sprocket has an offset on the numbered side, so if placed with the numbered side out, it would put it closer to the transmission. If it goes on with the X's out then that will move the sprocket away from the transmission.

    Wondering where the belt tracks in the front with the X's out. If it isn't running against the outer flange, could it be that they are now installing that way to more center the belt? And if that's the case, have all the others been installed incorrectly at the factory? If so, maybe this will fix it!

  3. #178
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    3,658
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Crap, I was thinking the same thing. The replacement I got has 4 X's on the back. The sprocket has an offset on the numbered side, so if placed with the numbered side out, it would put it closer to the transmission. If it goes on with the X's out then that will move the sprocket away from the transmission.

    Wondering where the belt tracks in the front with the X's out. If it isn't running against the outer flange, could it be that they are now installing that way to more center the belt? And if that's the case, have all the others been installed incorrectly at the factory? If so, maybe this will fix it!
    Or the dealer just put it on backwards? BRP needs to get on this because this thread is JUST the start of a Major problem that Most Owners (Not On Spyderlovers) Do Not even Know about. All the orders for replacement Sprockets should tell them something? My belt is off the front sprocket Just The amount that that the rear should be. The dealer and BRP Do Not admit to the problem because You Heard that on the Internet???

    2015 F3 sm6, Custom Dynamics fender lights.

    Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!

  4. #179
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Murphy, NC
    Posts
    1,389
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default Backwards Sprocket?

    Well if my sprocket was put on backwards either deliberately or by accident, it’s running fine and I haven’t noticed any difference.
    2020 F3 Ltd

    Spyderpops Bumpskid
    Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
    Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights
    2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
    2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
    2015 F3-S , BajaRon Plugs Can-Am Red

  5. #180
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    Well if my sprocket was put on backwards either deliberately or by accident, it’s running fine and I haven’t noticed any difference.
    Hate to ask, but could you give us an idea of tracking? After stopping from going forward, where is the belt on the front and the rear sprocket?

    Dummy me, I don't know squat about didilly, but it seems that if the belt is not against the outer flange (like most of ours), with the pulley being installed the way it is on yours, it would seem there would be less angular pull on the front pulley. And, what causes the deterioration is when the coating is worn off the splines off the pulley and the iron underneath starts powdering, causing the red dust.

  6. #181
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    Got my Spyder back today after having the sprocket replaced. Old part # was 2131. New part # on work order is 2134. But when I pulled the cover to check there were no numbers on the sprocket. Just an X on the edge at 180 degrees and one at 360 degrees.

    Your dealer installed the pulley backwards. The Xes indicate not this side out. Take it back. Soon.
    Your dealer will need to order a new bolt and really should replace the pulley rather than reinstall a used one. Installing it once already wore/damaged the splines. I would insist on a new part or written warranty against failure.
    Last edited by jcthorne; 11-05-2017 at 07:15 AM.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  7. #182
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Hate to ask, but could you give us an idea of tracking? After stopping from going forward, where is the belt on the front and the rear sprocket?

    Dummy me, I don't know squat about didilly, but it seems that if the belt is not against the outer flange (like most of ours), with the pulley being installed the way it is on yours, it would seem there would be less angular pull on the front pulley. And, what causes the deterioration is when the coating is worn off the splines off the pulley and the iron underneath starts powdering, causing the red dust.

    Installing the pulley backwards moves it outboard and places a larger moment arm on the shaft. Will make the spline wear worse, not better. Also if there were by chance a direction from BRP to install it backwards, opposite of the service manual, there would be a technical service bulletin published and there is not.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  8. #183
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Installing the pulley backwards moves it outboard and places a larger moment arm on the shaft. Will make the spline wear worse, not better. Also if there were by chance a direction from BRP to install it backwards, opposite of the service manual, there would be a technical service bulletin published and there is not.
    Thanks for clarifying!!

  9. #184
    Invalid Emails
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Just food for thought. Some of the Kawasaki motorcycles had a notorious problem with these same type of splines wearing on each other until they started chewing each other up with the same red powder residue showing up. The solution to the problem that eventually evolved was to use Moly 60, which has been replaced with the M-77 when assembling, and being renewed at each rear tire change. The Moly stopped the spline wear and the problem ended. That was over 7 years ago that the Moly 'fix' started being used and no problems with splines being chewed up has been reported since.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM...xU7OgC&vxp=mtr

  10. #185
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Somewhere USA
    Posts
    714
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZ View Post
    Just food for thought. Some of the Kawasaki motorcycles had a notorious problem with these same type of splines wearing on each other until they started chewing each other up with the same red powder residue showing up. The solution to the problem that eventually evolved was to use Moly 60, which has been replaced with the M-77 when assembling, and being renewed at each rear tire change. The Moly stopped the spline wear and the problem ended. That was over 7 years ago that the Moly 'fix' started being used and no problems with splines being chewed up has been reported since.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM...xU7OgC&vxp=mtr
    Thats interesting because I used a similar goo on my tractor for the same reason and it worked like magic.
    I'm also thinking "why" BRP is not using this to solve their spline issue? ....it might be an engineering taboo of theirs.
    My tractor was geared for slow and heavy pulling, the Kawasaki (I'm assuming) fast so where does that leave the Spyder?
    When I drop off my F3 this Thursday for my 18,000 mile service and sprocket replacement I will ask.
    I might even buy this and give it to my dealer and see if he will add it before assembly.

  11. #186
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Murphy, NC
    Posts
    1,389
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default BACKWARDS SPROCKET

    Yep, that looks like what happened. My thanks to this thread or I would not have thought to check my old sprocket for rust or the new sprocket for the part #. I am really disappointed in the dealer as they have been highly recommended by other members on this forum. I will call them on Tuesday and calmly explain the problem and go from there. I was able to drive my front wheels on ramps and check the underside. The flange on the inside of the sprocket is wider than the side with the X’s but there is not enough room to see any numbers on that side. Even though the Spyder rode fine on the 175 mile trip home, I wonder if I should ride it back to the dealer or have it towed. The belt is against the inside of the flange on the sprocket but the belt seems to be tracking OK. I am attaching photos.242B1D96-7EF7-45BA-A3BC-97A58AE00DA3.jpgCD61521D-A121-4602-A2D0-A7F9122EC4A4.jpg32F8EC5C-B2A7-46F4-A4ED-902E78763354.jpg
    2020 F3 Ltd

    Spyderpops Bumpskid
    Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
    Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights
    2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
    2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
    2015 F3-S , BajaRon Plugs Can-Am Red

  12. #187
    Active Member SpyderF3-s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Menifee, CA
    Posts
    217
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Second sprocket was install backwards!!!

    This is the picture that my current dealer took of the second sprocket that failed. If you look closely there is no part number! That means that the first dealer installed the sprocket backwards!! Thank you to the previous posts to bring this to my attention!! I will make sure that I check to make sure the current dealer has installed the sprocket correctly.
    spyder sprocket.jpg
    God bless those who serve/served our country!

  13. #188
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Murphy, NC
    Posts
    1,389
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default BRP CARE

    I just sent an email to BRP Care with photos of my front sprocket. I hope they will contact me before my dealer opens on Tuesday on whether it would be safe to ride it back or have it towed. I have also requested a new sprocket and bolt. I also suggested that they send out a bulletin to all dealers to install the sprocket with the part numbers facing outward. It would seem like common sense don't you think?
    2020 F3 Ltd

    Spyderpops Bumpskid
    Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
    Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights
    2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
    2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
    2015 F3-S , BajaRon Plugs Can-Am Red

  14. #189
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Cary, North Carolina
    Posts
    90
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    I just sent an email to BRP Care with photos of my front sprocket. I hope they will contact me before my dealer opens on Tuesday on whether it would be safe to ride it back or have it towed. I have also requested a new sprocket and bolt. I also suggested that they send out a bulletin to all dealers to install the sprocket with the part numbers facing outward. It would seem like common sense don't you think?
    I've sent an email to BRP with
    a list of people who have responded to me with this issue and as of today, I haven't heard anything back, not to say I won't but just a matter of when and what kind of BS story will I get. I'll pass along any info BRP sends to me.

  15. #190
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Cary, North Carolina
    Posts
    90
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Sprocket install

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s View Post
    This is the picture that my current dealer took of the second sprocket that failed. If you look closely there is no part number! That means that the first dealer installed the sprocket backwards!! Thank you to the previous posts to bring this to my attention!! I will make sure that I check to make sure the current dealer has installed the sprocket correctly.
    spyder sprocket.jpg
    I just checked the Spyder F3 manual I have and it doesn't show which side goes out, just said to install exactly as it was removed, using new bolt and to torque to 92 lb ft.
    Lamont time for you to weigh in on the correct install if you have it, I'm sure you have books I don't have!

  16. #191
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s View Post
    This is the picture that my current dealer took of the second sprocket that failed. If you look closely there is no part number! That means that the first dealer installed the sprocket backwards!! Thank you to the previous posts to bring this to my attention!! I will make sure that I check to make sure the current dealer has installed the sprocket correctly.
    spyder sprocket.jpg
    Yep, that sure enough is on backwards!! Wow!

  17. #192
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZ View Post
    Just food for thought. Some of the Kawasaki motorcycles had a notorious problem with these same type of splines wearing on each other until they started chewing each other up with the same red powder residue showing up. The solution to the problem that eventually evolved was to use Moly 60, which has been replaced with the M-77 when assembling, and being renewed at each rear tire change. The Moly stopped the spline wear and the problem ended. That was over 7 years ago that the Moly 'fix' started being used and no problems with splines being chewed up has been reported since.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM...xU7OgC&vxp=mtr
    Lamont posted on Facebook about using Moly on the splines. That sounds like the way to go. However, we need to make sure that BRP will still warranty the sprockets if that is done. Doesn't sound right for two fixed parts, but if it worked for them, hopefully it will work for us.

  18. #193
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Oz
    Posts
    906
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Moly is good stuff on splines but great CARE needs to be taken when applying it to ensure it does not get transferred to the flange faces and lubricate them, as that it is where the clamping force of the bolt is applied to ensure there is no relative movement (which is the cause of these failures) when torqued adequately.
    Last edited by Freddy; 11-06-2017 at 03:46 AM.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  19. #194
    Invalid Emails
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Lamont posted on Facebook about using Moly on the splines. That sounds like the way to go. However, we need to make sure that BRP will still warranty the sprockets if that is done. Doesn't sound right for two fixed parts, but if it worked for them, hopefully it will work for us.
    Since I'm a newer member here with very few posts I'm glad someone that has a reputation here for credible knowledge also mentioned using moly.

    Just a side note: There are many products out there with a Moly content and labeled as such in their product names. The Moly 60, replaced now with the M-77 was specifically chosen because of it's higher concentration/content of Moly than the other products. It is also a 'paste' and has a high resistance to heat so it doesn't tend to liquidfy and seep out. I would strongly advise to specifically use the M-77 in this situation. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM...xU7OgC&vxp=mtr

  20. #195
    Invalid Emails
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    Moly is good stuff on splines but great CARE needs to be taken when applying it to ensure it does not get transferred to the flange faces and lubricate them, as that it is where the clamping force of the bolt is applied to ensure there is no relative movement (which is the cause of these failures) when torqued adequately.
    Thank you Freddy! I was more concerned about keeping the moly out of the bolt hole. LOL
    To keep from getting any of the M-77 moly into the bolt hole I was going to put a piece of tape onto the end of the shaft. Then apply the moly to the splines on the sprocket only. That way when it is being installed all the excess moly will be pushed out the outer face side of the sprocket where the excess can be easily cleaned off. Then remove the tape and install and torque the new bolt.

  21. #196
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    When I remember to do it, I am going to start taking the parking brake off and just barely pushing on the brake pedal (enough to trigger the BLS but not apply the brakes), then put the Spyder into gear. I have tried this several times and I have had the byke move a bit several times when it bangs into gear. I think the hard banging into gear is at least part of the problem, so letting the sprocket more a little bit when it takes gear can't hurt.

  22. #197
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I did some research on spline failures and there is a surprising amount of information. One thing that surprised me was that the "red Rust" is not only a sign of a soon to happen failure, it also quickens it into happening. From what I'm reading, spline wear is normal. Everything wears. What they are saying is that when the wear removes the protective coating, moisture can get in and creates rust. The rust is extremely harmful to the splines and can really shorten the life. So what about sealing the spline area?
    I'm thinking that applying the moly lubricant on the splines of the pulley, then just before install applying a beard of RTV sealer around the shaft just about where the splines end and the pulley will seat. This will be sticky enough for a minute or so to stick to the pulley, making an inside seal. As someone else had mentioned, by applying the moly to just the pulley it would remove an excess as it slid on the shaft. Once installed, cleaning the outer area thoroughly will remove any excess moly, then apply a bead of RTV in the seam between the two parts. The last step would be to install and torque the bolt. The RTV will not cause any difference in the torque value and when done you will have completely airtight, waterproof, lubricated spline area that would also be sealed so that the moly couldn't get out. We use RTV in harmonic balancer applications in automotive all the time.
    Removal would also not be an issue as the RTV is not that hard to remove.

    Also, there was some talk about improper tempering of the material, but we have no control over that. IMHO this above procedure should give us the best chance of the splines lasting......

    Anybody see any downside that I've missed?

  23. #198
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Murphy, NC
    Posts
    1,389
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Why is the spline problem not affecting RT’s, ST’s and RS’s as much as the F3’s?
    2020 F3 Ltd

    Spyderpops Bumpskid
    Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
    Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights
    2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
    2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
    2015 F3-S , BajaRon Plugs Can-Am Red

  24. #199
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,655
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    Why is the spline problem not affecting RT’s, ST’s and RS’s as much as the F3’s?
    Well, I said it was due to the larger sprocket and change in gear ratio, but that was shot down by someone so who knows. Maybe the F3 has so much less tupperwear that it lets more rain into the area.....

  25. #200
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    3,658
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Took my bolt off and am confused about the pictures to follow- First shows Red powder- Next 3 shots with bolt out and after I sprayed some rust away with Sea Doo Lube it appears my sprocket is in amazing shape compared to others I have seen? There is No looseness between the splines and sprocket and Don.t worry about that bolt coming loose - It Took me a Big extension to even get it to come loose. The metal ring around the inside of the sprocket seems to still be good? My only concern would be the engine splines but if that's the case it would have to wait for spring. I could Not get it to budge even a little with a pry bar different ways? What do you think??

    I,m thinking put the New Bolt on -Torque to 92- adjust belt and ride?
    Attached Images Attached Images

    2015 F3 sm6, Custom Dynamics fender lights.

    Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!

Page 8 of 22 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •