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  1. #76
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
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    Default Front Sprocket

    Today I received a few more response's about front sprocket failures, all were SM6's. So this issue applies to all F3's, will it happen to all of them, hard to say, but it is an issue that BRP will need to address eventually. I'm sure that if there's any injuries or wrecks caused by this the NHTSA may get involved and require BRP take some action to remedy this.
    I would like to ask those that have the skill, to pull the front sprocket cover to check the part number on their F3 and post it here! Thanks
    FYI, I'm not a BRP tech, I'm an aircraft and Harley tech......

  2. #77
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    Today I received a few more response's about front sprocket failures, all were SM6's. So this issue applies to all F3's, will it happen to all of them, hard to say, but it is an issue that BRP will need to address eventually. I'm sure that if there's any injuries or wrecks caused by this the NHTSA may get involved and require BRP take some action to remedy this.
    I would like to ask those that have the skill, to pull the front sprocket cover to check the part number on their F3 and post it here! Thanks
    FYI, I'm not a BRP tech, I'm an aircraft and Harley tech......
    No part number visible on the sprocket as installed. At least my old eyes and a flash light could not see one. I have a new one on order as a spare and will check it visually against the one on my very early 2015 F3 which shows no signs yet of problems. (23000 miles).

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  3. #78
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    Default changing the sprocket

    Is changing out the sprocket a DIY job or does it require a special puller or other tool the average Joe isn't likely to have in the garage?
    Bolt head size (as measured across the flats)?
    Pete Tamblyn
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  4. #79
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    Default I'm seeing fear mongering

    What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.

    I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

    Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust )

    60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue.

    Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%.
    As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary.


  5. #80
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Default

    The Question Again IS-

    Are the failures ALL SE6 or are there some Manual sm6 involved????

    Could make a difference for Many People.

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  6. #81
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.

    I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

    Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust )

    60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue.

    Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%.
    As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary.

    Can you explain to me why you believe riders who have time on their hands and want to get on top of a potential issue that may leave them stranded are “stupid”, Road-Kill? All they are doing is trying to put some data behind the potential issue, and if a little maintenance will stop them being “stripped sprocket no 61”, good on them. I don’t think anyone is going “crazy” at all.

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  7. #82
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
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    Default Sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.

    I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

    Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust )

    60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue.

    Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%.
    As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary.

    Road-Kill, Sounds like you need to get a hobby, you appear to be an overly analytical person. I'm happy for you that you're not having any problems with your bike, but I'm sure when this happens to your bike you'll be ranting and raving to BRP. This is how recalls and TSB's get started, it's by issues coming up from a small number of customer problems and they're addressed so they don't become a major issue in the future. Not every Spyder owner reads these forums or Spyder FB pages, so we're not getting out to everyone who may have this problem, so there is no way to get more accurate numbers. So there will be no hard proof to you, just the email responses I'm getting from owners and other folks that are posting their own problem on the different forums and Facebook pages I'm on and I'm sure they're plenty of other forums I'm not aware of. These forums are setup to inform our fellow riders of the good and the bad associated with their respective bikes or other concerns some may have!
    So, please don't be part of the problem with your Negative attitude......

  8. #83
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.

    I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

    Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust )

    60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue.

    Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%.
    As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary.

    I think your percentages are skewed. This is an F3 thread so the "60" failures mentioned would not be calculated against the total number of all Spyders on the road.
    Rick

  9. #84
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    Can you explain to me why you believe riders who have time on their hands and want to get on top of a potential issue that may leave them stranded are “stupid”, Road-Kill? All they are doing is trying to put some data behind the potential issue, and if a little maintenance will stop them being “stripped sprocket no 61”, good on them. I don’t think anyone is going “crazy” at all.

    Pete
    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    Road-Kill, Sounds like you need to get a hobby, you appear to be an overly analytical person. I'm happy for you that you're not having any problems with your bike, but I'm sure when this happens to your bike you'll be ranting and raving to BRP. This is how recalls and TSB's get started, it's by issues coming up from a small number of customer problems and they're addressed so they don't become a major issue in the future. Not every Spyder owner reads these forums or Spyder FB pages, so we're not getting out to everyone who may have this problem, so there is no way to get more accurate numbers. So there will be no hard proof to you, just the email responses I'm getting from owners and other folks that are posting their own problem on the different forums and Facebook pages I'm on and I'm sure they're plenty of other forums I'm not aware of. These forums are setup to inform our fellow riders of the good and the bad associated with their respective bikes or other concerns some may have!
    So, please don't be part of the problem with your Negative attitude......
    Quote Originally Posted by stebrock View Post
    I think your percentages are skewed. This is an F3 thread so the "60" failures mentioned would not be calculated against the total number of all Spyders on the road.
    Rick
    Peteoz: My "stupid" comment was geared for those who trying to balloon this 1% issue. (actually less then 1%)

    cmarsala: Less then 1% is a nothing burger and very unlikely to initiate a recall.

    stebrock: Anything less then 1,000 is still less then 1% so 60-100-999 is still LESS THEN 1%.
    That 60 figure also includes people only with "rust" and not an actual failure making this argument even more pointless.


    Get a grip people.
    Rust is not a cause for great concern on an unprotected weathered gear like the front sprocket. (it happens on car rotors!)
    If you see "rust" it might be a good time to have a "looksee".
    This thread tells me to do nothing but keep an eye on my bike...........LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO DO

    On a last note...I'm reading that some are playing with their belt tension and probably are the 60 with sprocket failure and thus rust.
    Don't play genius, you're not. BRP specs are there for a reason and why these machines are well built.

  10. #85
    Very Active Member robhowen's Avatar
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    Default How do I get the cover off?

    This got me curious because we have a 2015 F3S. Please see the included image of the inspection cover.
    Front Sproket Inspection Cover.jpg

    I believe the cover bolts are 6mm Hex. I turn them, but I can't tell that they are loosing. I tried putting my hand behind the inspection cover and I can't tell if there is a nut or clip or ??? I know it must be easy, but can someone tell me how to get these bolts out and cover off so I may inspect my front sproket?

    Rob
    2015 RT-Ltd SE6 and F3S SE6, both with a number of commercial add-ons plus my own tweaks.

  11. #86
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
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    Default

    Well Road-Kill I suggest you don’t worry about your F3 and don’t check your sprocket. It probably won’t happen to you. After all, it’s less than 1% right, according to your reasoning. But we are talking about F3’s only, not the whole sum of 100,000 Spyders+ ever built. And why would you question a member that said he has heard from 60 F3 owners about the problem? So in the future if you are crossing a wide intersection or riding 70 miles per hr on a 6 lane freeway, don’t worry about your sprocket. It won’t happen to you, right?
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  12. #87
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    Default

    [QUOTE=robhowen;1312791]This got me curious because we have a 2015 F3S. Please see the included image of the inspection cover.
    Front Sproket Inspection Cover.jpg

    I believe the cover bolts are 6mm Hex. I turn them, but I can't tell that they are loosing. I tried putting my hand behind the inspection cover and I can't tell if there is a nut or clip or ??? I know it must be easy, but can someone tell me how to get these bolts out and cover off so I may inspect my front sproket?

    Rob:

    I used a 5mm Allen key to remove the three screws which are obvious. There are clips on the backside, which should remain clipped in plate as you turn out the Allen screws. At the top, on the inside of the cover plate, there's a small black plastic push pin which secures the cover plate to the main frame rail. Mine came out when I pushed inward on the cover plate, but didn't roll far on the shop floor, calling my attention to this "invisible" fastener.

    I just checked my 2015 F3-S SE6, 12,500 miles, and was relieved to find no rust.

    Pete
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  13. #88
    Very Active Member robhowen's Avatar
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    Default Thanks Pete

    I guess I just didn't turn it enough as I was afraid it was just spinning inside. I'll give it more turns.

    Thank you,
    Rob
    2015 RT-Ltd SE6 and F3S SE6, both with a number of commercial add-ons plus my own tweaks.

  14. #89
    Very Active Member ofdave's Avatar
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    Default

    while we're talking about removing the cover,
    anybody know what the purpose of the foam on the back of it is?
    Noise reduction? noise from what?
    just curious



    2017 F3, SM6-basic black, plain and simple

  15. #90
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motoswami View Post
    Is changing out the sprocket a DIY job or does it require a special puller or other tool the average Joe isn't likely to have in the garage?
    Bolt head size (as measured across the flats)?

    IF the old sprocket has not failed such that removal is problematic, removing the belt from the rear sprocket and a 15mm wrench are all that is required. Its not pressed on.

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  16. #91
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    Peteoz: My "stupid" comment was geared for those who trying to balloon this 1% issue. (actually less then 1%)

    cmarsala: Less then 1% is a nothing burger and very unlikely to initiate a recall.

    stebrock: Anything less then 1,000 is still less then 1% so 60-100-999 is still LESS THEN 1%.
    That 60 figure also includes people only with "rust" and not an actual failure making this argument even more pointless.


    Get a grip people.
    Rust is not a cause for great concern on an unprotected weathered gear like the front sprocket. (it happens on car rotors!)
    If you see "rust" it might be a good time to have a "looksee".
    This thread tells me to do nothing but keep an eye on my bike...........LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO DO

    On a last note...I'm reading that some are playing with their belt tension and probably are the 60 with sprocket failure and thus rust.
    Don't play genius, you're not. BRP specs are there for a reason and why these machines are well built.

    The front sprocket is well coated. Any iron oxide dust is the result of splines material being removed and deposited on the face of the pulley. If the sprocket face is red with iron oxide dust, its time to pull and replace the sprocket. There have been NO cases where the iron oxide dust was present and the pulley was not far gone.

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  17. #92
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ofdave View Post
    while we're talking about removing the cover,
    anybody know what the purpose of the foam on the back of it is?
    Noise reduction? noise from what?
    just curious
    Primarily engine noise insulation and a bit of heat.
    .
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  18. #93
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    Default noise from...?

    [QUOTE=ofdave;1312875]while we're talking about removing the cover,
    anybody know what the purpose of the foam on the back of it is?
    Noise reduction? noise from what?


    Um, noise from splines grenading?
    Pete Tamblyn
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  19. #94
    Active Member Omcge's Avatar
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    Default IMHO the problem is

    I don't think that I have a problem with my RT but after following this Thread I just can't help but give my opinion of what the problem is.As a Machinist/Shop owner of 55yr I have spent many hours repairing, F****d up
    piss poor engineered machined parts. I have never seen the pulley or shaft but from the pictures I can tell that the shaft is hard and the pulley is soft which is OK if they have the proper"FIT". If it were a .001-.002 interference "FIT"
    it would not matter what the material was it would stay tight on the spline.Next best thing would be a good slip "FIT" which would be no wiggle Also the bolt as I see it has a "course" thread which should be a "fine" thread.
    IMHO if the pulley is worn out the shaft is going to have some wear and should be replaced. Any wiggle at all on the splines will only get worse and fail again.If I had the problem and were doing it myself ,I might consider the Locktite product below which would fill the wear spots.that would be a lot easier than pulling the motor to change the shaft.
    Polaris Slingshot had a similar problem with the rear pulley being Aluminum would develop a little slop and cause the rear axle nut to back off.At that time their fix was to apply a Funky Yellow Loctite product to the splines tighten and let it setup 24 hr. Once it setup they said the only to remove was to heat the pulley up. I bought some but never used it.If anyone is interested #is Loctite 641
    Just my 2 cents
    Last edited by Omcge; 10-29-2017 at 10:26 AM.
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  20. #95
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
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    Default Sprocket Failure

    Road-Kill
    Since you have so much time on your hands and you like to group everything, I found a few Can Am forums you might be interested in so you can get some additional info to get negative about, I'm sure these folks would love to hear from you.

    Just a little story, when I was still in the Air Force, I had 12 C130 aircraft that I was responsible for. On 1 of them we found a crack in a main bulkhead, we fixed it and inspected the other 11, no issues found on them. I talked to the maintenance officer about it as I thought it could become an problem, he didn't agree with me and told me to forget about it. When I went to the staff meeting the next day I brought it up to the Colonel and he agreed with me, so we inspected the other 45 planes in the fleet and found 7 with the same problem. If we didn't find and fix the problem there could of been a major disaster. The Colonel informed higher headquarters what we found and they sent out notices Air Force wide to all units with C130's to inspect them, not sure how many more they found, but I did hear there was a bunch of them. Morale here is, ask questions about a problem, gather info and let the powers to be decide, small or large if there's a problem. The percentage of planes that had the problem was less the 1%, sometimes it's not the number, but the issue, safety and who it affects So I'll keep asking this question about sprocket failures, not rust as you keep bringing up and since we're talking numbers I've heard from 5 more who have had failures, 1 of them twice.

    So please enjoy these other forums!

    1-http://www.can-amforum.com/
    2-http://www.maverickforums.net/,
    3-http://www.can-amtalk.com/forums/
    4-http://www.commanderforums.org/
    5-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/
    6-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/forums/
    7-http://www.spydertalk.com/

    ENJOY

  21. #96
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    2017s are having the same problem. Just not as many....yet...as they are lower in miles as a group. But there have been failures of 17s as well. They also have the same sprocket, belt etc.
    this shouldn't be happening at all this was a problem way back in 08 ,09 brp should have learned and resolved all these years latter
    2 happy happy spyders

  22. #97
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    Road-Kill
    Since you have so much time on your hands and you like to group everything, I found a few Can Am forums you might be interested in so you can get some additional info to get negative about, I'm sure these folks would love to hear from you.

    Just a little story, when I was still in the Air Force, I had 12 C130 aircraft that I was responsible for. On 1 of them we found a crack in a main bulkhead, we fixed it and inspected the other 11, no issues found on them. I talked to the maintenance officer about it as I thought it could become an problem, he didn't agree with me and told me to forget about it. When I went to the staff meeting the next day I brought it up to the Colonel and he agreed with me, so we inspected the other 45 planes in the fleet and found 7 with the same problem. If we didn't find and fix the problem there could of been a major disaster. The Colonel informed higher headquarters what we found and they sent out notices Air Force wide to all units with C130's to inspect them, not sure how many more they found, but I did hear there was a bunch of them. Morale here is, ask questions about a problem, gather info and let the powers to be decide, small or large if there's a problem. The percentage of planes that had the problem was less the 1%, sometimes it's not the number, but the issue, safety and who it affects So I'll keep asking this question about sprocket failures, not rust as you keep bringing up and since we're talking numbers I've heard from 5 more who have had failures, 1 of them twice.

    So please enjoy these other forums!

    1-http://www.can-amforum.com/
    2-http://www.maverickforums.net/,
    3-http://www.can-amtalk.com/forums/
    4-http://www.commanderforums.org/
    5-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/
    6-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/forums/
    7-http://www.spydertalk.com/

    ENJOY
    Thank You for your service. As a Marine I rode on C-130's many times and I am glad for your villagence or I might have been one of the 1% that died.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    The front sprocket is well coated. Any iron oxide dust is the result of splines material being removed and deposited on the face of the pulley. If the sprocket face is red with iron oxide dust, its time to pull and replace the sprocket. There have been NO cases where the iron oxide dust was present and the pulley was not far gone.
    In response to your post I decided to remove the plastic cover and have a "looksee". (3-5mm hex bolts)(see picture)
    Yes I have "red dust". I'm over 18,000 miles on my Spyder that I bought new this year.....trouble free.
    Can I remove the one 16mm bolt without removing the belt to have an even closer "looksee"?
    I'm making an appointment with my dealer tomorrow for the 18,000 mile service, I'll leave the cover off and ask his opinion as well.
    If I do have sprocket wear.............will BRP replace it BEFORE it fails?

  24. #99
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    In response to your post I decided to remove the plastic cover and have a "looksee". (3-5mm hex bolts)(see picture)
    Yes I have "red dust". I'm over 18,000 miles on my Spyder that I bought new this year.....trouble free.
    Can I remove the one 16mm bolt without removing the belt to have an even closer "looksee"?
    I'm making an appointment with my dealer tomorrow for the 18,000 mile service, I'll leave the cover off and ask his opinion as well.
    If I do have sprocket wear.............will BRP replace it BEFORE it fails?
    Wow, that is a lot of red dust!
    The way I see it you have two choices;
    1. Ryde it like you stole it cause there isn't really a problem......
    or
    2. Get it to dealer ASAP while accelerating very gently. Insist upon the Loctite 660 to be added in between the splines of the new sprocket.

    I would not disturb the bolt for an inspection. I have seen less rust on sprockets that have completely grenaded, so you ain't got much spline left on that sprocket.

  25. #100
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    In response to your post I decided to remove the plastic cover and have a "looksee". (3-5mm hex bolts)(see picture)
    Yes I have "red dust". I'm over 18,000 miles on my Spyder that I bought new this year.....trouble free.
    Can I remove the one 16mm bolt without removing the belt to have an even closer "looksee"?
    I'm making an appointment with my dealer tomorrow for the 18,000 mile service, I'll leave the cover off and ask his opinion as well.
    If I do have sprocket wear.............will BRP replace it BEFORE it fails?
    Just for comparison I reposted mine with 9,700 miles to compare? Yours seems about right considering Twice the mileage as mine?
    Luckily the Spocket is only about $100 with New Nut and I think they come with the proper locktight already on the Bolt.
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    Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!

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