F3 Front Sprocket Inspection

[PMK]

I know this is an old, really long, thread but figured it’s the best place for my comments. My wife’s ‘18 F3L has about 12k miles and still no sign of the dreaded red dust on the sprocket. But after reading several pages in this thread it sounds like the proper thing to do to prevent failure is at each oil change remove the bolt and sprocket to inspect, clean, and reapply spline lube with a fresh bolt. Guess I’ll do all this at her next oil change. Does that sound about right?

Oh I’ve already checked, realigned and tensioned her belt, and installed the belt tensioner from lamonster so all that should be ok.

My suggestion, accomplish the first front pulley inspection on your wifes F3 at 12,000 miles. If serviceable reinstall. If you see that it was assembled dry at oem, examine the splines for metal particles and wear, including the surface finish of the splines themselves.

Clean all surfaces and assemble with a moly paste. Your call on reusing the bolt or not.

To be best prepared, you might consider having a new pulley and bolt on hand if waiting for parts is a concern.

Once properly inspected and lubricated, I doubt there will be any induced wear if you inspected at each oil change or annually. If you accomplish oil changes at book recommended 9300 that could work. For comparison, I change oil at 5000 miles, so this would be a bit too frequent I believe.

Our Spyder is a 2014 and the front pulley splines had a light film of grease from oem. I accomplished the inspection and reassembly at about the midpoint to the 28,000 mile heavy inspection. That is my next planned pulley inspection. Honestly I expect no wear then. Merely a remove, clean, inspect, reassemble and go.

[lugnut1009]

Y'all are right, I tend to go overboard with preventive maintenance. I can't see myself going 9k miles between oil changes, usually more like 5k, that's when my Indian is due for an oil change so doing 2 at the same time isn't bad. I've taken the pulley cover off several times and all looks fine, no red dust. But my wife reads the horror story's on facebook groups and such, keeps asking what I'm gonna do to hers to make sure it's good to go, ha. We have a big trip planned in July to travel from Mississippi to Colorado for a week on our bikes, so I'll probably do 1 extensive inspection / service on the pulley before that trip and depending on what I find then, I'll base my next inspection off of that.

Oh, and if I remember, I'll post my findings on here for the next guy to see.

[dvmdf]

2015 F3 SE6, checked the sprocket about 4k miles ago, was clean, checked it again yesterday: red dust. 14K miles on the odo, does this automatically mean bad sprocket or I should have a dealer take a look? I know parts are about $130, any idea on time required to replace?
Thanks for the replies
Stay safe

[lugnut1009]

Did you re-apply spline lube when you inspected it?

[Freddy]

You don't need to remove the pulley to look for red dust on it.

[dvmdf]

No, Do I have to? how do I do that? how much to apply?

[Freddy]

Take it to your dealer. Pulley should now be replaced.

[lugnut1009]

I think once you see the “red dust” it’s too late. The red dust is a sign of wear, so a new sprocket would be required. Yes it needs spline lube on it. Actually after I got to searching for a spline lube, there are a lot of manufacturers that use direct drive and the driveshafts are splined and require spline lube. BMW, Kawasaki, Honda, etc... although these are splines on a driveshaft, to me it’s still a rotational load on splines so to me it’s the same thing. Right?

[dvmdf]

Thanks for the replies!

[PMK]

I think once you see the “red dust” it’s too late. The red dust is a sign of wear, so a new sprocket would be required. Yes it needs spline lube on it. Actually after I got to searching for a spline lube, there are a lot of manufacturers that use direct drive and the driveshafts are splined and require spline lube. BMW, Kawasaki, Honda, etc... although these are splines on a driveshaft, to me it’s still a rotational load on splines so to me it’s the same thing. Right?

Yes, if red dust is visible, pulley is scrap.

Yes, splines are very often lubricated. The better products are a moly lube that is viscous and a paste but does not dry out over time.

[lugnut1009]

Well my bolt came in and some moly-lube so I decided to disassemble and inspect. Good thing I did, at around 13k miles my wife’s 2018 F3 Limited has the beginnings of rust on the splines that’s were not visible without bolt removal. Good news is I caught it in time and it was just surface rust, mainly on the end of the shaft under the built in washer of the bolt but there was discoloration all down the splines. Back on now and I plan to inspect this again in another 10k miles or so.

87EF30F1-C556-4470-B1F2-DE0454E86DA7.jpeg

[PMK]

Well my bolt came in and some moly-lube so I decided to disassemble and inspect. Good thing I did, at around 13k miles my wife’s 2018 F3 Limited has the beginnings of rust on the splines that’s we’re not visible without bot removal. Good news is I caught it in time and it was just surface rust, mainly on the end of the shaft under the built in washer of the bolt but there was discoloration all down the splines. Back on now and I plan to inspect this again in another 10k miles or so. 87EF30F1-C556-4470-B1F2-DE0454E86DA7.jpeg

Sorry, but that pulley is scrap. The rust you see is metal particles from fretting. The pulley is actually worn in the splines length and will have movement under acceleration and decelleration.

In your situation, you would have done better to clean thoroughly with brake cleaner. Scrub the splines and clean more, then install with Loctite as recommended in some post here. The Loctite has gap filling properties, and will prevent movement.

Realizing the costs involved to replace the gearbox shaft, myself I would replace that pulley ASAP, simply not worth the risk.

[lugnut1009]

You are right that with the cost vs risk, a new pulley would be best. But I did a very thorough inspection and the splines on both the shaft and pulley, I found no signs of wear at all. I’m sure there is microscopic wear there, and maybe I’ll do an inspection a little sooner than 10k but I’m pretty sure it’ll be ok for now.

[Freddy]

PMK is on the money.

[PMK]

You are right that with the cost vs risk, a new pulley would be best. But I did a very thorough inspection and the splines on both the shaft and pulley, I found no signs of wear at all. I’m sure there is microscopic wear there, and maybe I’ll do an inspection a little sooner than 10k but I’m pretty sure it’ll be ok for now.

Entirely your call. I suspect you accomplished a visual inspection. That is a good first step.

The correct way to inspect involves intricate measuring.

Again, entirely your call, I am simply sharing experience from years of dealing with spline drives on aircraft.

Sadly, like brakes, pulleys are a wear item. Last I knew the pulley was not too expensive. The trick though is replacing it now and installing lubricated, should hopefully be a simple inspect and relube at specified intervals after this.

For comparison, our 14 RTS was lubricated with something when assembled new. Never got any fretting particles on the outside. Removed the pulley at around 12,500 miles. The lubricant was breaking down but still functioning. All items were washed clean. The fit was checked for wear on the shaft itself after visual inspection. Yes, I reassembled with moly lube, a new bolt, and even applied corrosion prevention compound on the non spline areas.

Next inspection will be at 28,000 mile heavy maintenance check. Hopefully it will be each 28k thereafter.

[LarryC]

After reading this, I went and pulled the cover on my 2015 F3 SM6. There's no red rust. The mileage is 20080. I don't know anything about the history of the bike. I've had it since the 4th of June. I plan to pull it at the 28k service and lube it with moly paste and use a new bolt. As a gold wing rider for years, I'm surprised it's not a requirement about the moly paste. It's been a requirement on the gold wings for many years.