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  1. #351
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by den1953 View Post
    I take it from what I am reading that the drive belt is over-tightened from the factory and that reducing the tension and running an idler pulley is going to reduce or even eliminate this problem. There is also mentioning of the SE6 models "hammering" the splines. Does this mean the engagement is too abrupt or harsh?? I haven't yet bought an F3 but I am wondering if a manual shift model along with the tension reduction and idler changes would completely prevent this from being a problem for me when i do buy an F3.
    It is true that over time BRP has dropped the tension specs on the belts several times, and we have found that dropping it even further can be done without issue. On most bykes, it will move the speed where the vibration occurs, but not eliminate it completely. By using a vibration damper it has pretty much killed the vibration for everyone that was experiencing it. It does make sense that the less tension the belt is run at (and the less vibration) it should reduce wear on the front sprocket. Since BRP has not given the stats of the number of failures and type of Spyder effected, we really only have what has been posted here and Facebook to go by. There seems to be more SE6's than the manual SM6's, but there are still SM6's failing, though not as many. There also have been some RTs and a few earlier models that have failed, but the majority that have failed have been F3's. Without actual stats, it also seems 2015 & 16's had the most failures. It is curious to note that most of the F3's have not had this problem, which some (including myself) are beginning to think that a batch of front sprockets weren't properly tempered, and that has caused the problem that some have experienced. Hope that helps. As I said, we are all flying blind here and speculation (although somewhat educated) is all we have.

  2. #352
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
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    Default Belt adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    It is true that over time BRP has dropped the tension specs on the belts several times, and we have found that dropping it even further can be done without issue. On most bykes, it will move the speed where the vibration occurs, but not eliminate it completely. By using a vibration damper it has pretty much killed the vibration for everyone that was experiencing it. It does make sense that the less tension the belt is run at (and the less vibration) it should reduce wear on the front sprocket. Since BRP has not given the stats of the number of failures and type of Spyder effected, we really only have what has been posted here and Facebook to go by. There seems to be more SE6's than the manual SM6's, but there are still SM6's failing, though not as many. There also have been some RTs and a few earlier models that have failed, but the majority that have failed have been F3's. Without actual stats, it also seems 2015 & 16's had the most failures. It is curious to note that most of the F3's have not had this problem, which some (including myself) are beginning to think that a batch of front sprockets weren't properly tempered, and that has caused the problem that some have experienced. Hope that helps. As I said, we are all flying blind here and speculation (although somewhat educated) is all we have.
    Roadster, I must have missed something, what has the F3's belt tension been dropped to?
    Thanks

  3. #353
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    Roadster, I must have missed something, what has the F3's belt tension been dropped to?
    Thanks
    Wasn't really referencing the F3 on that. I know that they have dropped the RT several times. Not sure what it is now. For both my RT & F3 I set the tension at about 90 with the wheel off the ground. That gives me about 180 on the ground. Pretty sure that is lower than the latest data and it has worked very well. We can get away with that with using the vibration dampers. We have over 47,000 on the RT and still on the original rear wheel bearings. The F3 seems to be breaking in very well at over 17k. I might experiment a little next year with dropping them a little lower, but when something is working, hard to change it!

  4. #354
    Very Active Member ofdave's Avatar
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    a month and a half since I last looked at the sprocket
    2100 mi. on 10/19, no rust. Now 3200 and the dreaded rust is there.
    I did install a belt tensioner about 350 miles ago.
    Checked tension today, it's 180 rear wheel on the ground.
    I find it a real bother with so few miles.
    Now to the dealer. I hope he is up on this situation.



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  5. #355
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofdave View Post
    a month and a half since I last looked at the sprocket
    2100 mi. on 10/19, no rust. Now 3200 and the dreaded rust is there.
    I did install a belt tensioner about 350 miles ago.
    Checked tension today, it's 180 rear wheel on the ground.
    I find it a real bother with so few miles.
    Now to the dealer. I hope he is up on this situation.
    Good catch! Hope they get it in and out quickly. If the dealer gives you any issues I would have them contact BRP directly. If there isn't already a TSB on this, there should be.
    I see yours is a '17 and a SM6. That adds evidence to it being a bad tempering issue.......
    Last edited by Roadster Renovations; 12-26-2017 at 11:38 PM.

  6. #356
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofdave View Post
    a month and a half since I last looked at the sprocket
    2100 mi. on 10/19, no rust. Now 3200 and the dreaded rust is there.
    I did install a belt tensioner about 350 miles ago.
    Checked tension today, it's 180 rear wheel on the ground.
    I find it a real bother with so few miles.
    Now to the dealer. I hope he is up on this situation.
    Just because you see a Little Red Rust does NOT mean its Grenading? Mine had rust see Pictures way back and the sprocket was fine at 9,000 miles? If your concerned by the $10 bolt and take the old one off and Look- If its OK install the New Bolt to the proper Torque. Your Belt should be MUCH lower than 180 with the cricket reading . More like 90-120? I settled on 120 pounds on mine Off and On the ground because with the 2 Up shock the difference OFF and ON is minimal because its very stiff!

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  7. #357
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Wasn't really referencing the F3 on that. I know that they have dropped the RT several times. Not sure what it is now. For both my RT & F3 I set the tension at about 90 with the wheel off the ground. That gives me about 180 on the ground. Pretty sure that is lower than the latest data and it has worked very well. We can get away with that with using the vibration dampers. We have over 47,000 on the RT and still on the original rear wheel bearings. The F3 seems to be breaking in very well at over 17k. I might experiment a little next year with dropping them a little lower, but when something is working, hard to change it!
    I'm sorry but there is No way you got 90 Pounds OFF the ground with the cricket AND 180 ON the ground-Just does Not Make any sense- ?

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  8. #358
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    Default Drive pully

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    Spare pulleys and bolts will be exhausted soon. They may make better ones next run.
    This has been a issue from 2008, I put a rubber coating on my drive pully, took away the noise and vibration was much quieter, 9 years later still going and no problems.

  9. #359
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    I'm sorry but there is No way you got 90 Pounds OFF the ground with the cricket AND 180 ON the ground-Just does Not Make any sense- ?
    That is exactly what I have both our Spyders set at. We use the Black and Silver Kricket for the up in the air test and the Green and Silver Kricket for the on the ground reading.
    Just out of curiosity, why do you question that the weight of the byke adds 100 lbs. of tension to the belt?

    And, they must like it because the RT has 49k on it and the Daytona has almost 18k on it. No bearing issues with either byke.

  10. #360
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    That is exactly what I have both our Spyders set at. We use the Black and Silver Kricket for the up in the air test and the Green and Silver Kricket for the on the ground reading.
    Just out of curiosity, why do you question that the weight of the byke adds 100 lbs. of tension to the belt?

    And, they must like it because the RT has 49k on it and the Daytona has almost 18k on it. No bearing issues with either byke.
    Why are you using 2 different Krickets- Pictures and explanation Please. If you are using the Standard Kricket Ron sells and we All use you are not going to vary 100 Pounds from JUST an inch off the ground to ON the ground and If its 180 on the ground you have not taken the New standards Seriously? Happy New Year!!!

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  11. #361
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    Why are you using 2 different Krickets- Pictures and explanation Please. If you are using the Standard Kricket Ron sells and we All use you are not going to vary 100 Pounds from JUST an inch off the ground to ON the ground and If its 180 on the ground you have not taken the New standards Seriously? Happy New Year!!!
    Sarge, re the gauges, there are two Krikit guages you can buy. One measures from 0-150lbs, and another measures from 100-300lbs. That is most likely why RR needs two different guages.

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  12. #362
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    Sarge, re the gauges, there are two Krikit guages you can buy. One measures from 0-150lbs, and another measures from 100-300lbs. That is most likely why RR needs two different guages.

    Pete
    Yep.

  13. #363
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Yep.
    https://youtu.be/z11wfc-0-hY

    The larger gauge should be used for ON or OFF the ground for consistency and they are designed for different belts.
    Any test- TO BE CONSISTANT- Must use the same Gauge!
    The tension on the F3 should be MUCH lower than 180 Pounds because High tension contributes to the problems-
    Lastly JUST because you take off the cover and see some Red dust Does Not mean your Sprocket is Toast -
    To find out for sure you have to Buy the $10 Bolt and take it off and look at the sprocket and if its fine Put the NEW bolt on to the proper torque?

    I have my belt to 120 Pounds and the Belt rides right in the Middle of the front sprocket -which to me means its putting equal pressure on the front sprocket.

    I think tensioners are a waste of time and contribute to the sprocket problem BUT do whatever you want- I'm moving on!

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  14. #364
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    That's a relief.
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  15. #365
    Very Active Member ofdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    Just because you see a Little Red Rust does NOT mean its Grenading? Mine had rust see Pictures way back and the sprocket was fine at 9,000 miles? If your concerned by the $10 bolt and take the old one off and Look- If its OK install the New Bolt to the proper Torque. Your Belt should be MUCH lower than 180 with the cricket reading . More like 90-120? I settled on 120 pounds on mine Off and On the ground because with the 2 Up shock the difference OFF and ON is minimal because its very stiff!

    appreciate your opinion,
    never said it was "Grenading" because of a "Little Red Rust".

    With 3100 miles I should see no rust, zero, none-period. There are several comments in this thread about 10,000-20,000 plus miles and no rust. I think that is acceptable. At 3100 miles, it is not acceptable to me.

    I have no concern about "the $10 bolt" and were I to install a new one you can rest easy, it would be at the proper torque. The bolt secures lateral movement and the splines control rotational movement. I get that.

    I will, because of the relative newness of the machine, let the dealer have a look and resolve the issue of the rust.

    Your comment on belt tension may be valid. However, opinions on this point vary widely on this site.
    Getting the same tension with the rear wheel both on and off the ground, as you did, seems impossible to me. Likely I will reduce from the 180 when the pulley issue is addressed.
    Last edited by ofdave; 12-30-2017 at 08:52 AM.



    2017 F3, SM6-basic black, plain and simple

  16. #366
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    Default People are losing grip on reality.

    365 posts?
    over 22,000 views?

    I fail to see what the big problem is.....

    Once every 5,000 miles spend 5 minutes of your time and remove the sprocket cover and have a "looksee".
    If you see red dust call your dealer and have it replaced......free under warranty or a cheap fix if not.
    My sprocket was covered in red dust with 19,000 miles on it and my tech told me it wasn't even close to failure.

    I don't blame BRP for voiding warranties of those who are changing the specs and experiencing issues.

  17. #367
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    365 posts?
    over 22,000 views?


    My sprocket was covered in red dust with 19,000 miles on it and my tech told me it wasn't even close to failure.
    Lets just say those with experience with this issue disagree with your 'tech'. If the pulley was covered in red rust, that is metal from the splines and no where else. They are far closer to failure than you can imagine. Once they start wearing and depositing red rust dust on the pulley, the rust causes the wear to accelerate and its a pretty fast down hill spiral from there.

    If there is a coating of red iron oxide dust and your tech tells you its fine and will not replace the pulley, go elsewhere and get it fixed or at least carry great roadside assistance plan to pick you up when you get stranded.

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  18. #368
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Lets just say those with experience with this issue disagree with your 'tech'. If the pulley was covered in red rust, that is metal from the splines and no where else. They are far closer to failure than you can imagine. Once they start wearing and depositing red rust dust on the pulley, the rust causes the wear to accelerate and its a pretty fast down hill spiral from there.

    If there is a coating of red iron oxide dust and your tech tells you its fine and will not replace the pulley, go elsewhere and get it fixed or at least carry great roadside assistance plan to pick you up when you get stranded.

    I agree 100%. Even removing the bolt no one, any tech included, can determine how much fretting has occurred and how long the splines have left before they grenade. Since there is no taper on the splines (read previous posts about front sprockets being installed backwards) the bolt has nothing to do with the spline fit to shaft, other than to hold it in place. If it was tapered, re-torquing the bolt would push it farther onto the shaft and compensate for any wear. Since that is not the case, doesn't matter how many new bolts you throw at it, it will not change the spline wear (red rust). This is why BRP to my knowledge has not refused to replace any sprocket showing the red rust.

    Bottom line: If it is showing red rust, it will fail at some point in the future. Insist on it being replaced.

  19. #369
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    "Ignorance is bliss" someone once said and the ignorants have been warned - or to loosely quote a not-so-famous poet: 'we are wasting our sweetness on the desert air.'
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  20. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Lets just say those with experience with this issue disagree with your 'tech'. If the pulley was covered in red rust, that is metal from the splines and no where else. They are far closer to failure than you can imagine. Once they start wearing and depositing red rust dust on the pulley, the rust causes the wear to accelerate and its a pretty fast down hill spiral from there.

    If there is a coating of red iron oxide dust and your tech tells you its fine and will not replace the pulley, go elsewhere and get it fixed or at least carry great roadside assistance plan to pick you up when you get stranded.
    BRP fixed my sprocket under warranty, he never even hesitated at its replacement.
    I never saw the interior of my sprocket, I was simply stating what he told me after the replacement.
    I just feel that this thread is grossly over the top compared to the actual issue.
    I don't think 5 minutes of your time every 5,000 miles to have a "looksee" is a major issue.
    I feel its a cheap and fast fix should you experience "red dust".

  21. #371
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    BRP fixed my sprocket under warranty, he never even hesitated at its replacement.
    I never saw the interior of my sprocket, I was simply stating what he told me after the replacement.
    I just feel that this thread is grossly over the top compared to the actual issue.
    I don't think 5 minutes of your time every 5,000 miles to have a "looksee" is a major issue.
    I feel its a cheap and fast fix should you experience "red dust".
    If you never saw the sprocket and he said it was No where near the failure point How do you really know if he replaced it? "Just Sayin?"
    Dealers have been know to do a $800 Valve check on older models that never got done.

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  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    If you never saw the sprocket and he said it was No where near the failure point How do you really know if he replaced it? "Just Sayin?"
    Dealers have been know to do a $800 Valve check on older models that never got done.
    I don't.
    I don't know if he actually changes the oil or if he is adding the BRP oil.
    I don't know if he is checking everything as listed on the service schedule as mandated by BRP.

    ....but if he wants to keep me as a customer he needs to keep me satisfied.

  23. #373
    Member Madmartigan's Avatar
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    Angry Add me to the list

    51CAC6AA-8A42-4F37-89A6-8B17AFBD3083.jpg

    I took my cover off and as you can see it's covered in rust. I will be contacting Whites Cycle here in Chattanooga on Monday. Hopefully it won't be too much of a hassle to get it replaced. My 2015 F3S only has 7,433.8 miles on it. BRP needs to come up with a permanent fix. You should not have to worry if you are going to be able to ride home or be towed home every time you leave your house.
    I used to think it was a terrible thing that life was so unfair. Then I thought, "what if life was fair, and all of the terrible things that happen to us came because we really deserved them?" Now I take great comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.

  24. #374
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madmartigan View Post
    51CAC6AA-8A42-4F37-89A6-8B17AFBD3083.jpg

    I took my cover off and as you can see it's covered in rust. I will be contacting Whites Cycle here in Chattanooga on Monday. Hopefully it won't be too much of a hassle to get it replaced. My 2015 F3S only has 7,433.8 miles on it. BRP needs to come up with a permanent fix. You should not have to worry if you are going to be able to ride home or be towed home every time you leave your house.
    Good catch! Let us know how it goes.....

  25. #375
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofdave View Post
    appreciate your opinion,
    never said it was "Grenading" because of a "Little Red Rust".

    With 3100 miles I should see no rust, zero, none-period. There are several comments in this thread about 10,000-20,000 plus miles and no rust. I think that is acceptable. At 3100 miles, it is not acceptable to me.

    I have no concern about "the $10 bolt" and were I to install a new one you can rest easy, it would be at the proper torque. The bolt secures lateral movement and the splines control rotational movement. I get that.

    I will, because of the relative newness of the machine, let the dealer have a look and resolve the issue of the rust.

    Your comment on belt tension may be valid. However, opinions on this point vary widely on this site.
    Getting the same tension with the rear wheel both on and off the ground, as you did, seems impossible to me. Likely I will reduce from the 180 when the pulley issue is addressed.
    So it does happen to SM6 bikes, we were led to believe it was only SE6 bikes.Good luck on the fix.
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