F3and RT belt pulley info

[Cruzr Joe]

I just changed out the idler pulley on my 2016 F-3 Limited so that i could see if it was still working properly

Well after 11,000 + miles i can tell you that it is working fine, no problem and no belt chatter or vibration. Stock # 219800413

While i was on BRPs instruction site i found that they also make one for the RT series now, Stock # 219800419.

I am passing this along so that you know that you can now have the chatter and vibration out of your RT just like we have on the F-3

This is not a comparison of the very much more expensive non warranted after market units, just info for the crowd.

Cruzr Joe

[Roadster Renovations]

I just changed out the idler pulley on my 2016 F-3 Limited so that i could see if it was still working properly

Well after 11,000 + miles i can tell you that it is working fine, no problem and no belt chatter or vibration. Stock # 219800413

While i was on BRPs instruction site i found that they also make one for the RT series now, Stock # 219800419.

I am passing this along so that you know that you can now have the chatter and vibration out of your RT just like we have on the F-3

This is not a comparison of the very much more expensive non warranted after market units, just info for the crowd.

Cruzr Joe

Just learned that BRP has come out with a cheap idler for the RT and I have to ask what is their motivation.
I try to see the reasons why people and corporations do what they do and I have learned just about everything that is done is motivated by profit. I have had my thoughts of what motivation BRP would have making a very inexpensive part (idler) for the F3. I mean, think about it. Our bykes are not cheap; to purchase, to buy replacement parts, to have services done. So, why offer a really cheap idler when you could make a better quality one, charge more, and make more profit. Think about that for a minute and read on to what I finally concluded.
Usually, most higher mileage ryders do their own minor maintenance so odds are they will install this themselves rather than pay the dealer the $100.00 plus for the install. In order for the warranty to be valid it must be installed by the dealer so if it fails and takes out the belt, it is the ryders out of pocket. More $ to the dealer that way.
The lower mileage ryder usually has the dealer take care of their byke so they make the initial install charge and then a year later after the warranty expires they suggest a replacement of the idler and make that labor. This causes a steady stream of income to the dealer. Since it's low mileage the odds of killing the belt are pretty low and worth the gamble for BRP. (remember, when you go to the dealer your mileage is logged, so they have a huge database to look at)
So, either way it is a win-win for them. And it wouldn't make sense for them to make a high quality, long lasting expensive idler. People would buy them, but after the install they wouldn't make any money after on followup. And, for the DIYers it would be worse because they would not fail.
Now I know that some of you will fit in neither of the above two catagories, but I am talking total numbers here. Rest assured that whatever the motivation is, it is not out of the goodness of their heart that they are selling this cheap kit. It is to make money and feed their dealers.
Now they have decided to make one for the RT. Wanta bet that it is going to be the same cheap kit?
Consumer beware. That's all I'm saying. For what we pay for these bykes the best quality idler should come as standard equipment, but where is the profit in that?
Kathy and I love our Spyders and we just can't understand why they don't improve on the things they know are an issue. Guess it comes down to how deep they can get into our pockets with replacement parts....

[Cruzr Joe]

You say that BRP will only warranty the pulley and whatever other damages for one year, how long do you warranty your pulley and any other damages??

Just asking since you chose to bash BRP on my post.

the initial post did not mention you or your product, it only gave info that BRP was now making one for the RT.

funny when BRP makes a expensive part everyone complains, when they make an inexpensive (NOT CHEAP) parts some folks can't wait to bash them, and yes I am talking about you.

You could have replied the differences between yours and theirs but instead chose to BASH BRP and you did it on my post so I felt the need to respond.

Feel free to remove your BASHING from my post and put it somewhere else.

Cruzr Joe

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Having spent 22 years of my post college life in quality assurance and related fields, and observing the rise and fall of American quality, and comparing it to Japanese quality, let me share my thoughts.

Ultimate quality does not equate to never failing. What it does equate to is that level of reliability that fully satisfies the market need. From the manufacturer's point of view why build a product that will last 200,000 miles when 90% of the products will never reach 80,000 miles? To do so requires a needless expenditure of resources. Now, if 60% of the products will reach 50,000 miles, and a specific product has a 90% failure rate at 15,000 miles then that is not ultimate quality. If the company is pursuing ultimate quality they will reevaluate the product design and manufacturing and make whatever changes are needed to reach ultimate quality. Japanese products by and large are known for high quality. But they are not over engineered. They are engineered for a reliability level that satisfies the majority of consumers. In other words, they are good enough, not better, not worse, but good enough!

All Joe is saying is that at 11,000 miles the BRP idler still looks and functions well. Will it last 50,000 miles? We don't know yet. Will Doc's idler last 50,000 miles? More than likely. It might even last 200,000 miles. If it does, it's over engineered. If the BRP one lasts 50,000 miles it's engineered pretty damn good. If it lasts only 15,000 miles then that means BRP does not understand ultimate quality, or some of their people share the mindset of automotive engineers of 40 years ago where parts were designed to fail so as to save manufacturing costs, or they just don't know what the design really needs to be. Are they designing for a deliberate cash flow for dealers? I doubt it. There's too much of an economic risk in doing that as there is the big unknown about how large the spare parts stock needs to be. Are they designing the idler with the full expectation that 30% of them will fail before the bike is no longer ridden regularly? Maybe. Maybe that's the level of reliability that keeps the cost attractive and the size easy to fit. Maybe they're designing and pricing it at a level that will counteract the negative publicity the belt vibration has brought over the years. Maybe in their assessment the after market parts, although of high quality, are not priced attractively enough to lure as many riders to add an idler as they believe need to to quiet the discontent.

One thing we know for sure. We will never know what the internal thinking in BRP is with respect to anything related to the Spyder.

[Bob Denman]

Hi Joe!
I'm a big fan of Doc's pulleys; but I still want to thank you, for posting information about BRP's product.
It gives folks more options: that's a good thing!

[Cruzr Joe]

Hi Joe!
I'm a big fan of Doc's pulleys; but I still want to thank you, for posting information about BRP's product.
It gives folks more options: that's a good thing!

Hey Bob, that's all the original post was about, just letting folks know.

Cruzr Joe

[Little Blue]

A Big Thank You for this info. I to will be interested on seeing updates. Little Blue