Flag and National Anthem protests

[Bob Denman]

Larry,
I agree with about 99.3% of what you said...
But if somebody wants to protest Police mistreatment of minorities: don't you think that picking another place for it, would have been more effective?
In my mind; if you disrespect the flag by not standing for the National Anthem: your entire viewpoint has been lost in that act.
Our NFL players are ALL men with other means of promoting better relations between everybody...
(Even the Purple & Green folks! )
As an example: they could host rallies and/or picnics, and invite Local Law Enforcement Officers to a "meet, greet, & eat" with the local folks.

[Pirate looks at --]

As an American Veteran and a Black American, who family have been in all branches of the armed forces of the country (not Coast Guard), and a few who have gave their life in service of this country and we are still called "N" by some of you. Why? I will defend the right of KKK, Nazis, and others to protest. I may not agree with them but I will support their rights to do so. (Hoping that others will see that their message is wrong.) As to the protest in the NFL, it never was or has been about the flag, anthem or the Veterans, (those who don't want to talk about the real issue of why has convince many it is about the flag, anthem and Veterans, which it is not.) it is about the way Americans have treated African Americans, the Justice system, and how some police officers, not all (my neighbor is an officer of the law and we get along very well) are allowed to just get away with murder, lying (Falsely accusing) and abuse of people. No matter their race. Most of you don't really care and to some of you it is OK. if that is the fact than say so, but don't hide behind the flag or the anthem (which most of you don't even know the words to it and what it really means). I still don't see how the Veterans got added to the mix. Most of you people don't really give a s**t about us Veterans. you talk a good game, but were you willing to sent your kids off, when the country was at war? Did you go? When members of my family and I raise our right hand we Pledge to defend the Constitution of the United States, to ensure all of it people rights are protected not some but all. With this said I will defend your Right to say and use the N word because I know that is how you feel about American who are not of you color. I hope you can educate yourselves on the history of this country and rights you have that came so easy for you.

Your post with the N word really sadden me. As Mr R. King had said, "Can We All Just Get Along", I pray we can.

I have seen many changes in my life, I hope this will change before I move on.

Larry, thank you so much for this post. Thanks for putting into perspective what these protests are all about. Thanks for demonstrating what you and other veterans have fought for. Our rights as guaranteed by the constitution allow all of us to be heard, in a peaceful manner. We should intervene only when demonstrations become destructive. Thank you for your service to this country! I totally agree that all views should be heard, it doesn't matter if it comes from millionaire ball players, or minimum wage employees. When the Nazis demonstrate it is easy to see them for what they are, and the intelligent person easily determines that their values are despicable and hateful, and we want nothing to do with them. Just as some people on this thread have shocked me with their views, and usage of demeaning terminology, we have the right to reject that point of view, and I do so freely! That is the greatness of this country is we are free to think and believe what we want, as long as we do no harm to others!

Larry, you are a true American Patriot!

[Pirate looks at --]

Larry,
I agree with about 99.3% of what you said...
But if somebody wants to protest Police mistreatment of minorities: don't you think that picking another place for it, would have been more effective?
In my mind; if you disrespect the flag by not standing for the National Anthem: your entire viewpoint has been lost in that act.
Our NFL players are ALL men with other means of promoting better relations between everybody...
(Even the Purple & Green folks! )
As an example: they could host rallies and/or picnics, and invite Local Law Enforcement Officers to a "meet, greet, & eat" with the local folks.

But Bob, this is their stage this is where their influence can best be demonstrated. Marlon Brando could have picked a different stage to protest the treatment of Native Americans, but, the Oscars was where his point going to have the most visibility.

[Bob Denman]

...But when the point is lost due to "poor aim": what good was it?

Please don't misunderstand me: I believe that there have been too many tragic mistakes made...
The players have just chosen the wrong place for their protests.

[UtahPete]

...But when the point is lost due to "poor aim": what good was it? Please don't misunderstand me: I believe that there have been too many tragic mistakes made... The players have just chosen the wrong place for their protests.

If they get attention, and there's certainly no doubt about that, then who is to say it is the 'wrong' place to protest? You may not like it, but that's not the same thing, is it?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

If they get attention, and there's certainly no doubt about that, then who is to say it is the 'wrong' place to protest? You may not like it, but that's not the same thing, is it?

Yes perhaps you are right but why should we be paying them to do so, they are football players so PLAY BALL!
If they really believe in what they are doing then they would have no problem pooling their money and pay for air time on a network
channel to air their opinion unless of course they don't believe in it enough to really spend THEIR time and THEIR money. I haven't
heard of them giving out any free t shirts or hats with any words of protest on them, perhaps they should print up about 500,000 to
give out in the parking lots or mail out for free.
Again I say netflix, porn & riding are my choice.

[Bob Denman]

If the message is being lost due to folks questioning their Patriotism: yeah... it's the wrong place for it.

[UtahPete]

Yes perhaps you are right but why should we be paying them to do so, they are football players so PLAY BALL!

I believe they are paid by the season or the game, not by the hour. And, in any case, you're not their employer, right, so you don't really have any standing in this dispute at all.

[Bob Denman]

But as a fan: he has the right to be offended by their actions...

[UtahPete]

But as a fan: he has the right to be offended by their actions...

Absolutely! Freedom of choice I think is alive and well.

[ARtraveler]

[wyliec]

Most of you people don't really give a s**t about us Veterans. you talk a good game, but were you willing to sent your kids off, when the country was at war? Did you go? When members of my family and I raise our right hand we Pledge to defend the Constitution of the United States, to ensure all of it people rights are protected not some but all.

WylieC, I don't think he was saying that. Let's not allow this conversation to become one of personal attacks please.

You and I will have to differ on this. Are you trying to curb my freedom of speech?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

But as a fan: he has the right to be offended by their actions...

No, as an american i have that right. Now keep in mind i won't yell shark at the beach or fire in a movie theater because i feel
it is the wrong place to do so.

[UtahPete]

You and I will have to differ on this. Are you trying to curb my freedom of speech?

Funny!

[wyliec]

Funny!

I just want to explain a little further. Those statements I quoted I find upsetting, and it's not because I'm a non-veteran. Maybe you're right, there seems a greater degree for misunderstanding the way things are written.

[UtahPete]

I just want to explain a little further. Those statements I quoted I find upsetting, and it's not because I'm a non-veteran. Maybe you're right, there seems a greater degree for misunderstanding the way things are written.

I wasn't kidding; I did find your post humorous, as I think you intended. I'm a veteran but I don't think my opinion is any more relevant or valid or valuable because of that.

[ofdave]

So the point of the kneeling and raised fist is to protest treatment on a group of people?

What have the kneelers done to help make their perceived treatment of these people get better?
Where are they in the neighborhoods, where are their contributions to organizations that can help?
Where are they-on national TV in the spotlight. And they offer no ideas except to pose for the cameras.
Where are their actions for and with the people they claim are treated badly?

Oh, and who is orchestrating these actions by the players. Do you really believe it is all coincidence?

[UtahPete]

So the point of the kneeling and raised fist is to protest treatment on a group of people? What have the kneelers done to help make their perceived treatment of these people get better? Where are they in the neighborhoods, where are their contributions to organizations that can help? Where are they-on national TV in the spotlight. And they offer no ideas except to pose for the cameras. Where are their actions for and with the people they claim are treated badly? Oh, and who is orchestrating these actions by the players. Do you really believe it is all coincidence?

Apparently you think it is part of some conspiracy to undermine democracy or something. Please, enlighten us.

[UtahPete]

It was US Army veteran, Nate Boyer, who suggested to Kaepernick to take a knee as a sign of respect. This is their inspiring story of what can happen when people with different perspectives decide to sit down, have a conversation, and hear each other out. #ColinKaepernick #NFL #Kaepernick

https://youtu.be/I4nyaL8qmK0

(Found this on Facebook; seems to be relevant but what do I know)

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

so 1 vet says it is ok that means 300 million people should agree.

[UtahPete]

so 1 vet says it is ok that means 300 million people should agree.

Is that your interpretation?

[RinconRyder]

made in 70's, based on the '50's

Actually, American Graffiti was 1960's, not 50's.

[Pirate looks at --]

so 1 vet says it is ok that means 300 million people should agree.

You just don't get it. I think everybody on the other side (from you) of this story totally agrees that anybody has the right to be upset by these protests. In fact protests are designed to upset the apple cart. If they don't then there is no purpose. They are staged to create dialogue on the subject and this one certainly did! Success! You have the right to be upset! You have the right to not patronize the NFL, that is your form of protest.......and if enough people join your protest, you may provoke a change in policy. The protest of the players is no more wrong than your protest of their actions! This is a free country ( though I fear some are trying to change that) so protest away! Your voice and theirs need to be heard!

[JerryB]

Hi Bob,

Re: ...and I can't get two clocks in my house, to read the same time!

I have a clock in my garage that get its time from a satellite. My computers get their time the same way; as does my cell phone. All of the other clocks are 'sort of' in the same time zone.

Just how accurate do you really, really needs your clocks to be?

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryB]

Hi Larryjn,

Re: As an American Veteran and a Black American, who . . . I hope this will change before I move on.

I absolutely agree with you.

In the summer of 1963 I was in Berlin. I have a photo of me standing next to the Berlin Wall. I always knew that one day it would come down, I just did not expect to come down in my lifetime.

I hope, with you, that this will change before either of us moves on.

Nice post,

Jerry Baumchen
A veteran