Advice and suggestions for curves and Twisties?

[SpyderSkeets]

Hi folks!
I've been enjoying the hell out of my F3-T. However, I am still pretty apprehensive to see what it can do on the curves and Twisties and take them rather slowly. I realize the "Nanny" mode would kick in to prevent a disaster and every circumstance is different but was hoping you could share your advice, suggestions, and experiences with the curves and Twisties.
Thanks!
SS

[Bob Denman]

1. DON'T ever touch your brakes in the middle of a turn...
2. Lean forward, and to the inside of the turn. Scoot your butt cheeks to the inside also!
3. stiffen up your outside leg: it'll keep your weight to the inside of the turn.
4. G r a d u a l l y add power after you've reached the apex of the turn...

It's really all about being smooth...

Just remember: Nanny can save your butt from MOST mistakes... but there's always a way to get yourself of "Page One"!

[Poseidon]

My advice is to trust the bike. It handles like a sports car right out of the box. Plenty of mods you can do to improve on it as well. Seeing where you are at, head west and do some riding in the mountains. Another option would be to find a curvy stretch of rode you are familiar with and practice on it. Keep riding the same stretch and increase your speed in the curves a little each time. A couple of things that will help is shifting your weight to the inside of the bike. The bike doesn't lean, but that doesn't mean you can't. put your head out toward the end of the handlebar on the inside side of the curve. Here are a couple of pics to show you what I mean.





It is also worth noting that brakes and throttle impact steering. Braking thru a curve tries to keep the bike (or any vehicle) going straight. Rolling on a little throttle will help get you around the curve. So, slow down before the curve if need be, maintain current speed going into the curve, then roll on the the throttle mid way thru and power out of the curve. If you have taken the MSF course (Apex up in your area most likely) remember what they taught you about looking thru the curve. You will go where you look.

[Easy Rider]

How long have you been riding.......a Spyder......on two wheels ??

Despite the protests of some here, the handling of the Spyder is VERY quick (twichy) and is entirely different than a 2 wheeled machine.

I came from about 50 years on 2 wheels......and now have about 700 miles on the Spyder.
Some days, my riding is smooth and steady; other days it feels like it wants to jump off the road every time I need to "steer".

I think time and experience are your friends.
I also think that no two people are exactly alike and you NEED to ride your own ride.

I suspect that some folks never get completely comfortable with the different feel.

[SpyderSkeets]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I did take the Apex course last weekend, but learning curves on a closed course at 15-20 MPH is quite different than real world curves at higher speeds. We were taught to shift our weight on the inside of the curve and roll the throttle out of the curve, but frankly, I feel sort of a race biker wannabe when I do it. I know that is something I need to get past, but that's kinda the way I feel as of now. I know every circumstance and curve is different, but let's say you're approaching a curve where the suggested (yellow) speed is 35mph. What speed would you feel comfortable taking it with your Spyder?
Another thing I didn't quite grasp was looking where I want the Spyder to go. Obviously, I don't look down right in front of the Spyder and I scan and look forward. However, what do you mean by looking at where you want to go? Do you keep your eyes on a fixed point at the end of the curve, or what? It just doesn't feel natural. I tried to explain it to the instructors, but I guess I didn't explain it well, or I just didn't understand the process of looking through the curve.

[SpyderSkeets]

How long have you been riding.......a Spyder......on two wheels ??

Despite the protests of some here, the handling of the Spyder is VERY quick (twichy) and is entirely different than a 2 wheeled machine.

I came from about 50 years on 2 wheels......and now have about 700 miles on the Spyder.
Some days, my riding is smooth and steady; other days it feels like it wants to jump off the road every time I need to "steer".

I think time and experience are your friends.
I also think that no two people are exactly alike and you NEED to ride your own ride.

I suspect that some folks never get completely comfortable with the different feel.

I've had my Spyder for about two weeks and have put about 600 miles on it. I've had "some" experience on two wheels, and can ride if need be, but the experience is minimal. I agree that my comfort level will increase with time and experience and no two riders and environments are alike, but I still like to hear what others have to say and use that at a foundation on building up my confidence.

[classicvw]

I only have about 300 miles on my Spyder and am still learning to be comfortable and trust the bike. It's a very different animal from a two wheeler. I never really realized how even a slight shifting of my body steers a two wheeled M/C, but that same slight shift does absolutely nothing when riding a Spyder.

Maybe you're feeling like a racer because you haven't found the right combination of slightly slowing into the curve and then slightly adding throttle going out of it. You just have to find that smooth ratio. Don't slam the throttle open when you're at the curve apex.

[asp125]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I did take the Apex course last weekend, but learning curves on a closed course at 15-20 MPH is quite different than real world curves at higher speeds. We were taught to shift our weight on the inside of the curve and roll the throttle out of the curve, but frankly, I feel sort of a race biker wannabe when I do it. I know that is something I need to get past, but that's kinda the way I feel as of now. I know every circumstance and curve is different, but let's say you're approaching a curve where the suggested (yellow) speed is 35mph. What speed would you feel comfortable taking it with your Spyder?
Another thing I didn't quite grasp was looking where I want the Spyder to go. Obviously, I don't look down right in front of the Spyder and I scan and look forward. However, what do you mean by looking at where you want to go? Do you keep your eyes on a fixed point at the end of the curve, or what? It just doesn't feel natural. I tried to explain it to the instructors, but I guess I didn't explain it well, or I just didn't understand the process of looking through the curve.

Race biker wannabe is exactly the way you need to take corners at speed. 15-20mph or 35-40mph the basics are the same. Look ahead through the curve, weight to the inside (brace against the outside footpeg).

Advisory speeds? A 35mph corner probably has a 40-50mph posted speed on the straights. For a new rider get your entry speed down to 35 before turn in. Then gradually roll on the throttle once past the apex and back up to speed on the exit. As you get seat time you can gradually try faster entry speeds but the basic techniques apply. On some corners I can take them at the posted speed, ignoring the advisory speeds, and the nanny doesn't even wake up.

[blitzkreig]

Don't be afraid to get your foot (feet) into the action. Press down hard with the leg (foot) on the outside of the curve.

[4 MARIE]

[QUOTE=classicvw;1303147]. I never really realized how even a slight shifting of my body steers a two wheeled M/C, but that same slight shift does absolutely nothing when riding a Spyder.

like previously stated, the weight shift, or Transfer if you prefer, is used to allow your body to more easily combat the
centrifugal force that tries to toss you off to the outside. This centrifugal force is really the only cornering issue on the Spyder.
Some do the whole "superbiker seat slide", some push down on the outside foot, for me I do a little head and shoulders shift.
It ain't dramatic, but get's the job done.
You are so new to the Spyder game. Don't sweat the speed in corners thing. It will come to you, I guarantee it. Use it wisely.

[INfox]

Two months and 1800 miles – I am finally comfortable in the curves.

All the tips listed here are very good.

I use my knee to push on the gas tank from inside of the curve I’m riding. This helps me greatly if I need to keep up with my son. Leaning to the side of the cure and little to the front helps a lot, but the knee trick works so much better. I don’t even have to lean in curves while driving slower anymore. Riding the same curvy roads many times and gradually speeding up helps a lot.

I wonder sometimes 'who' defines these recommended speed, each curve is different. I don’t think I ever drove curves at the recommended speed, I am typically 10-15 miles/hr; sometimes even 20 miles/hr faster – on a dry road and if its not raining.

[blitzkreig]

I wonder sometimes 'who' defines these recommended speed, each curve is different. I don’t think I ever drove curves at the recommended speed, I am typically 10-15 miles/hr; sometimes even 20 miles/hr faster – on a dry road and if its not raining.

I have always believed that those posted speeds were for semi-trailers so that they don't tip over. They certainly don't make much sense otherwise.

[UtahPete]

My advice is to trust the bike. It handles like a sports car right out of the box. Plenty of mods you can do to improve on it as well. Seeing where you are at, head west and do some riding in the mountains. Another option would be to find a curvy stretch of rode you are familiar with and practice on it. Keep riding the same stretch and increase your speed in the curves a little each time. A couple of things that will help is shifting your weight to the inside of the bike. The bike doesn't lean, but that doesn't mean you can't. put your head out toward the end of the handlebar on the inside side of the curve. Here are a couple of pics to show you what I mean.

It is also worth noting that brakes and throttle impact steering. Braking thru a curve tries to keep the bike (or any vehicle) going straight. Rolling on a little throttle will help get you around the curve. So, slow down before the curve if need be, maintain current speed going into the curve, then roll on the the throttle mid way thru and power out of the curve. If you have taken the MSF course (Apex up in your area most likely) remember what they taught you about looking thru the curve. You will go where you look.

Couldn't agree more. At the NoCal rally, I decided to really push it (2014RT stock) through the hairpin turns on a 10-mile stretch of forest road where tree roots occasionally lifted the pavement, which was not very well maintained (but lightly traveled by others). The bike never once gave me the feeling that it was breaking the tires loose; it was very controlled like a sports car would be. With a bajaron sway bar and stiffer shocks I imagine cornering would have been even more impressive, but it was good enough for the kind of riding (touring) I typically do. Oh yeah - I was following an F3 driven by a maniac in braids and did a pretty good job staying with her. Where she lost me was in the many blind turns (can't see around the curve), where she kept going but I slowed down to what I felt comfortable with (where I live, wildlife on the road, fallen rocks, etc are not uncommon so I don't overdrive the environment I'm in).

The reason I went with the Spyder in the first place is because of its impressive stability and handling. Unlike standard trikes. The dynamics involved with bending a spyder through the turns is different than a two-wheeler but in my estimation every bit as fast.

To answer another question by the OP, I found I can comfortably push the fully-laden bike through turns at 1-1/2 times the posted cautionary speed (yellow signs). Probably more if I want an adrenalin rush (I don't anymore).

[Lew L]

Pete,

You must be remembering Hyw 4 at Ebbets Pass. Your forgot the gravel in the roadway and the trucks on the one lane, up hill , tight radius hairpin turns. It was great fun though.

Kaos

[UtahPete]

Pete, You must be remembering Hyw 4 at Ebbets Pass. Your forgot the gravel in the roadway and the trucks on the one lane, up hill , tight radius hairpin turns. It was great fun though. Kaos

Actually, it was the even hairier ride that Stacy took me on to Spicer Reservoir. https://www.google.com/maps/place/CA...4d-120.9403453

Ebbets Pass Road is a great motorcycle road for sure, but couldn't really get any speed up with all the traffic (including all the Spyders).

[Easy Rider]

Another thing I didn't quite grasp was looking where I want the Spyder to go.

Once you get thoroughly comfortable with your ride, some things will happen sort of automatically.
One of those things is: The bike will tend to GO where you are LOOKING.

Maybe a better explanation is: Do not look where you DON'T want to go......don't look AT a hazzard you are trying to avoid.......if you start running wide don't look AT the curb that you are trying to avoid.

So, on routine riding just don't fix your gaze on the edge of the road or on the other lane or any other place where you DON'T want to go.

The effect can be REALLY pronounced and dangerous on 2 wheels.
I think maybe not so much on 3 but I don't have enough time in the seat to know for sure.

[UtahPete]

Once you get thoroughly comfortable with your ride, some things will happen sort of automatically. One of those things is: The bike will tend to GO where you are LOOKING. Maybe a better explanation is: Do not look where you DON'T want to go......don't look AT a hazzard you are trying to avoid.......if you start running wide don't look AT the curb that you are trying to avoid. So, on routine riding just don't fix your gaze on the edge of the road or on the other lane or any other place where you DON'T want to go. The effect can be REALLY pronounced and dangerous on 2 wheels. I think maybe not so much on 3 but I don't have enough time in the seat to know for sure.

Good advice. As he said the effect is less pronounced on the Spyder, but very important on a 2-wheeler. My experience with these MSF courses is they are very good for 2-wheelers, but have not yet been appropriately modified to reflect the very different dynamics of a Spyder.

[Easy Rider]

This helps me greatly if I need to keep up with my son.

I wonder sometimes 'who' defines these recommended speed, each curve is different.

That comment worries me a bit because "trying to keep up" with a faster rider sometimes results in really unfortunate crashes.

The yellow "safe" curve speed is set, I believe, for the worst case situation: A semi with a top heavy load......and/or worst conditions like heavy rain.

[loisk]

Yep, all good stuff.

Look where you want to go - your body will do the rest

Put some weight/strength on the outside leg in a curve, to counteract centrifugal force

You really don't have to slide your bum all over the place - your head is the heaviest part of your body - a head and shoulder move will do the trick. Relaxed elbows.

Keep it smooth, smooth

Keep a really light grip on the bars.

If you get caught a bit hot in a bend - the spyder will look after you - just look where you want to go, tighten the bars a bit more, lean a little more, all good ! (Take a bit of throttle off if you want, dab the brakes if you feel you need to, tho ideally not)

Oh - check your tyre pressures ! Low pressures (and poor front wheel alignment especially on the earlier models) will really mess up the curves.

Did I say keep it smooth?

Yes, different to two wheels - spyders have their own kind of magic - ride with the bike and it'll all be good.

Re suggested speeds in curves - I never believe them, too many decreasing radius, off-camber curves. I ride smoothly until I can see the exit, then accelerate out of the curve. The guy ahead might start the curve faster than me, but I am all caught up at the end of the curve. Ride your ride, not anybody else's.

[ARtraveler]

If you are crossing the center lines, you are going to fast for your abilities. It gets better and easier with miles in the saddle.

[SpyderSkeets]

Once you get thoroughly comfortable with your ride, some things will happen sort of automatically.
One of those things is: The bike will tend to GO where you are LOOKING.

Maybe a better explanation is: Do not look where you DON'T want to go......don't look AT a hazzard you are trying to avoid.......if you start running wide don't look AT the curb that you are trying to avoid.

So, on routine riding just don't fix your gaze on the edge of the road or on the other lane or any other place where you DON'T want to go.

The effect can be REALLY pronounced and dangerous on 2 wheels.
I think maybe not so much on 3 but I don't have enough time in the seat to know for sure.

Thanks. I already do this (not much different than driving a car). I guess the way they were putting so much emphasis on "looking where you want to go" kinda had me thinking I was doing something wrong, but I suppose I was doing it right all along.
Thanks for the other replies as well!

[UtahPete]

Thanks. I already do this (not much different than driving a car). I guess the way they were putting so much emphasis on "looking where you want to go" kinda had me thinking I was doing something wrong, but I suppose I was doing it right all along. Thanks for the other replies as well!

Yeah, take those riding courses designed for 2-wheelers with a heavy dose of salt...

[Peter Aawen]

Re the 'look where you want to go' bit, it doesn't matter what you are driving or riding, you should practice looking out ahead as far as you can to work out where the road is going, then scan back along the path you want to travel until you are looking at what's just ahead of your vehicle....

Incorporate that into the 'continual scan' that you should be doing to keep you aware of what's going on around you & by 'looking where you want to go' & repeatedly scanning your path, your body/muscle memory will work FOR you instead of against you!! As others have said, DO NOT watch those things you want to avoid; DO NOT fix your focus on any one spot, keep scanning from as far ahead as you can see back to the front of your vehicle, keep on tracking the path you want to follow so that by the time you actually get there you don't find any surprises!

[INfox]

That comment worries me a bit because "trying to keep up" with a faster rider sometimes results in really unfortunate crashes.

The yellow "safe" curve speed is set, I believe, for the worst case situation: A semi with a top heavy load......and/or worst conditions like heavy rain.

You have a good point.
I am trying to be very careful even I drive faster than I probably should. I do have a huge gap between him and me often if I don't feel comfortable enough to drive that fast. I need to slow down a bit and gain more experience first. Having too much fun could get me in a hospital and to loose my new and expensive trike.

[ARNIE R]

Take a ride up to Skyline Drive. It is only 35mph, but, plenty of gentle curves to practice on. For further excitement, just run up and down RT 211 on either side of the Drive a few times. 35mph on the east side, but 45mph on the west side and plenty of tight turns. Plus, the scenery ain't too bad either........