What is an entry level Spyder?

[otter28169]

The project S sounds interesting for adding a lesser sticker shock to the mix. Having ridden the "best," I know I would not be in the market. Sept. 2018 means it will be a 2019 I am sure. Hope they come through with it. I can already hear the Elio jokes if they don't.

Any pictures of this model to be seen?

Just askin'.............

[Poseidon]

BRP has started making entry level ATV's and SxS's in recent years with their "L" model ATV's. They just announced a new "Maverick Trail" today. It starts at $10,900 compared to the Maverick X3 Turbo that is pushing $30k. They have a Rotax 650 and a 570. Both are pretty potent V-twins for their size. Then there is alway the 800 and 1000 V-twins as well. Lots of options already in their current line up if they wanted to attract younger riders with lower priced bikes. It is pretty obvious that they already know it works since they are doing it in the off road market. Regardless of brand and 2 wheels or 3, there are more people getting away from riding than there are new riders starting out. If someone doesn't do something to entice the younger generations to start riding, every manufacturer is going to see dwindling sales. There will be fewer options and fewer manufacturers in the future if something doesn't change soon.

I experienced this first hand with Polaris shutting down Victory 3 months after I bought my Magnum. I am really beginning to wonder if Suzuki may be about ready to drop the M109R as well. They didn't even change the paint color last year. (something they have done every year in the past.) They have yet to announce the 2018 cruiser line up. Have to wait and see I guess...

[Cycletlh]

Interesting thread. I am currently in the market for a Spyder for my wife. She had a stroke 3 years ago and can no longer ride but is now strong enough that she can handle a Spyder. She turns 61 next month. Her last motorcycle was a Victory Vision Tour that she purchased used and really loved. She also had a 650cc Suzuki V-Strom among others that she enjoyed and put a pile of miles on.

The 2018 F3 has a base msrp of $17,999 and is only available in black. What she would really like is a F3T with floorboards like a 2016 Limited. RS models have too much of a Sport bike riding position for her not just in the bars but the tucked under legs as well. RT models fit but that is a lot of Spyder to start out with.

While we are considered affluent by many we are early retirees with limited income. A Spyder purchase will have to come from our savings account. A $10,000 entry level Spyder sounds very attractive providing it is designed with variable riding positions like the F3. Smaller engine is okay, she never complained about the performance of her V-Strom. Lighter weight would be great. No or little space for a passenger, no problem. Did she like all the bells and whistles on her Vision, she sure did, but the thing she misses the most is being able to ride. An entry level option could get us started. As she gains experience I am sure we would move up.

So: Smaller cc's, U-fit system, Smaller simplified platform, Lighter weight, Ability to reasonably add options after the sale. (Can Am accessories seem more expensive than Harley accessories. $449.99 for handlebars is not reasonable in my opinion.)

[Bob Denman]

Whenever "Project S" makes it's appearance: I'll be VERY interested in giving it a test ride!
Sometimes, "less can be more."

[PrairieSpyder]

Whenever "Project S" makes it's appearance: I'll be VERY interested in giving it a test ride!
Sometimes, "less can be more."

Maybe Cathy will finally get her own??? Then you'll need a bigger toy hauler!

[asp125]

Where are the sneak peeks at this Project S that everybody's talking about? Google showed nothing.

[Bob Denman]

Maybe Cathy will finally get her own??? Then you'll need a bigger toy hauler!

Or perhaps we could get away with a smaller toy hauler, and just take hers...

[Pirate looks at --]

Or.....just bungee the entry level motorcycle to the top of the RV!

[Bob Denman]

(Back to Project S...)
We all know that BRP is going to try and be "tighter than a gnat's butt that's been stretched over a bushel basket" with the details on this bike.
We're going to have to scour the internet for hints, rumors, out of focus glimpses, and interviews with the neighbor of the best friend whose sister in an ex-inlaw to one of the test riders!

[Firefly]

If BRP does come out with an entry level machine for $10K (and I really hope they DON'T), it would have that 600 engine in it they used in the hybrid would be my guess.

Why don't I want to see an entry level new Spyder for $10 K you ask???

It will devalue all of our Spyders. Lower the resale and trade-in values. Put many more on the road that will then overwhelm the service centers more than they already are.

Let those who want a cheap 'spyder' go with the Trioka scooter.....

[Pirate looks at --]

Sell your Spyder while you can still get a nickel it for because, next year there will be an entry level Spyder. So I see your point, from the perspective of a "glass half-empty " person. As a glass half full person, I see that those who buy and entry level Spyder will learn to love it as much as I do. They will see those more advanced machines like I drive and aspire to own one. When I get ready to sell my used Spyder, that person will gladly take the step up to buy my used machine, allowing me the opportunity to buy the next latest and greatest.

Isnt it amazing how perspective can can change your outlook on life!

[bboley]

If BRP does come out with an entry level machine for $10K (and I really hope they DON'T), it would have that 600 engine in it they used in the hybrid would be my guess.

Why don't I want to see an entry level new Spyder for $10 K you ask???

It will devalue all of our Spyders. Lower the resale and trade-in values. Put many more on the road that will then overwhelm the service centers more than they already are.

Let those who want a cheap 'spyder' go with the Trioka scooter.....

Just like Sportsters and Scouts have devalued all other Harleys and Indians???

Think maybe that is what the "S" represents in "Project S" ???

[Bob Denman]

It has already been mentioned that the Spyder is not a money-maker for BRP.
If they can turn the product line into a winner with an entry-level bike: I fail to see any downside to it.
How valuable would your Spyder be; if they pulled the plug?

[Firefly]

Just like Sportsters and Scouts have devalued all other Harleys and Indians???

Think maybe that is what the "S" represents in "Project S" ???

Well.. the low end market actually has devalued HD's..... they just cut production to below 300,000 bikes due to horrible sales. The price on used bikes has dropped like a rock over the last few years.

We have a similar problem with BRP pertaining to used values already in that they sell the leftovers with great incentives.. which is GREAT if you're buying.. but if you're trading in or selling then it kills your trade or resale value.

Many won't consider buying your used Spyder for $15K when they can get a new one for $10k... even if they are not comparable models at all.

[Firefly]

It has already been mentioned that the Spyder is not a money-maker for BRP.
If they can turn the product line into a winner with an entry-level bike: I fail to see any downside to it.
How valuable would your Spyder be; if they pulled the plug?

I don't believe for one second that BRP isn't making money on Spyders. They're in the business of making money.
You have to look at the entire picture and look at HD as a good (or bad) example.

Where does HD make most of their money??

From clothing sales. T-shirts in particular.

They essentially are a T-shirt company who happens to make motorcycles.
Look at all the people who wear HD clothes who have never owned or will ever own one.

I don't think BRP can pull that off, but they do make good money on accessories... and I believe they do make a profit from Spyder sales.

Would you stay in business if you sold a product with no profit margin?

[Firefly]

Sell your Spyder while you can still get a nickel it for because, next year there will be an entry level Spyder. So I see your point, from the perspective of a "glass half-empty " person. As a glass half full person, I see that those who buy and entry level Spyder will learn to love it as much as I do. They will see those more advanced machines like I drive and aspire to own one. When I get ready to sell my used Spyder, that person will gladly take the step up to buy my used machine, allowing me the opportunity to buy the next latest and greatest.

Isnt it amazing how perspective can can change your outlook on life!

I'm just realistic in that a cheaper model will lower the resale value of higher models. I think that's a pretty sound theory.

My 2012 RT cost $22K. Last fall with 25K miles on it I got $10K in trade towards an F3. They depreciate fast... and with BRP having all these new holdover models from 2015/16, etc. it makes resale even worse. Many will think ... why buy used when I can buy new.

With over 100K miles between my Spyders I won't be selling mine anytime soon, nor do I promote others doing that.

I'm not as concerned about how full the glass is as I am what it it's filled with... hopefully a good bourbon....

[bboley]

Well.. the low end market actually has devalued HD's..... they just cut production by 300,000 bikes due to horrible sales. The price on used bikes has dropped like a rock over the last few years.

We have a similar problem with BRP pertaining to used values already in that they sell the leftovers with great incentives.. which is GREAT if you're buying.. but if you're trading in or selling then it kills your trade or resale value.

Many won't consider buying your used Spyder for $15K when they can get a new one for $10k... even if they are not comparable models at all.

The whole point is to get new Spyder ryders ryding. If they can't afford $15k for a used Spyder they are going to either "A" not ryde or "B" they will buy a new two wheeler that they can afford and never look at Spyders again till they have hip replacement surgery. In addition, not everyone wants a completely decked out machine, some want a basic machine that can get them from point a to point b. I don't get the mentality that I see, we talk about how the big bad Harley riders won't wave at us and then we more or less complain that anyone who can't afford $20,000 - $30,000 for a new ride is not as good as us and shouldn't be riding. Doesn't the new ryder deserve the chance to start out on a new "Project S" just like the new Harley and Indian riders can start out on a new Sportster or Scout?

[Bob Denman]

I don't believe for one second that BRP isn't making money on Spyders. They're in the business of making money.

Agreed... and they do!
On their snowmobiles, their ATVs, and their personal watercraft businesses.
They can afford SOME patience: rest assured that the amount of it is limited!

[Rob Rodriguez]

The whole point is to get new Spyder ryders ryding. If they can't afford $15k for a used Spyder they are going to either "A" not ryde or "B" they will buy a new two wheeler that they can afford and never look at Spyders again till they have hip replacement surgery. In addition, not everyone wants a completely decked out machine, some want a basic machine that can get them from point a to point b. I don't get the mentality that I see, we talk about how the big bad Harley riders won't wave at us and then we more or less complain that anyone who can't afford $20,000 - $30,000 for a new ride is not as good as us and shouldn't be riding. Doesn't the new ryder deserve the chance to start out on a new "Project S" just like the new Harley and Indian riders can start out on a new Sportster or Scout?

The answer is YES. You're completely correct.

The "project s" has a sport riding position and I'll buy it myself.

[bboley]

The answer is YES. You're completely correct.

The "project s" has a sport riding position and I'll buy it myself.

I think that it would be great if BRP could incorporate a "U-Fit" system on the "Project S" that would accommodate both sport and cruiser ryders! Maybe move the brake to the handle bars, then they would be free to do whatever they wanted to with foot pegs and floorboards. Moving the brake would also be great for handicapped people who can't use there feet for braking. The old two or three birds with one stone thing!

[asp125]

I hope the "S" in Project S stands for Sport - long overdue.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I think that it would be great if BRP could incorporate a "U-Fit" system on the "Project S" that would accommodate both sport and cruiser ryders! Maybe move the brake to the handle bars, then they would be free to do whatever they wanted to with foot pegs and floorboards. Moving the brake would also be great for handicapped people who can't use there feet for braking. The old two or three birds with one stone thing!

An adjustable system that allows for sport and cruiser positions is fine by me

Agree with the hand brake. Doubt it would happen but would much rather the hand brake than the foot brake.

Heck, they can take the switchable thumb/finger throttle on the sleds and drop that on the S bike too.

[ARtraveler]

Any pictures of this model to be seen?

Just askin'.............

Unfortunately, none here. BRP has not saw fit to confide in me.

[Poseidon]

Well.. the low end market actually has devalued HD's..... they just cut production by 300,000 bikes due to horrible sales. The price on used bikes has dropped like a rock over the last few years.

We have a similar problem with BRP pertaining to used values already in that they sell the leftovers with great incentives.. which is GREAT if you're buying.. but if you're trading in or selling then it kills your trade or resale value.

Many won't consider buying your used Spyder for $15K when they can get a new one for $10k... even if they are not comparable models at all.

HD cut production because their customer base is aging and getting away from riding and the younger generations are not picking up where the older riders are dropping off. This is the whole reason for the smaller displacement bikes, getting back into race sponsorship, marketing that is targeting women and younger riders with less disposable income. You may see it as the smaller bikes are depreciating the values of the bigger bikes, but is really happening is that there are fewer riders buying bikes, new or used. Between aging riders, distracted drivers, increased traffic, and a slow economy, there are more people giving up riding than there are new riders just starting out. Simple supply and demand.... with new and used bikes flooding the market and fewer people interested in buying, it equals high supply and low demand.... then lower prices.

Smaller displacement bikes are the end result, not the cause of lower values. I seriously doubt anyone interested in, and able to afford an HD Ultra CVO is going to settle for a sportster or a scout because of the lower price. If that were the case, there would be a lot more Rebel 250's on the street! There needs to be starter bikes for young people to afford so they will try riding. The quicker a company gets them having fun on a particular brand, the more apt they will be to upgrade to another model of said brand later.

[Bob Denman]

Could Project S be an offshoot of this design?

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