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  1. #1
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Default This officer needs some learnin'!

    This past Wednesday while driving to Lewiston, ID I see the dreaded blue and red flashing lights behind me. I stop, take off my helmet, get off the Spyder and wait for the officer to approach. "What did I miss?", I asked thinking I must have been speeding or something of the sort.

    "Your flashing lights, they're not allowed."

    "They're not flashing. They are modulated. Headlight modulators are specifically allowed on motorcycles."

    "Never heard of such a thing."

    I tell him the search the Idaho Code. Well, as it turns out, a section I remember seeing in the Idaho code specifically citing the Federal reg on modulators is no longer in the code. So of course he couldn't find it. He did not for one second believe me about modulators being allowed, even after I explained the differences between them and emergency vehicle flashing headlights. So he wrote me a citation for having flashing lights.

    Today I finally found the pertinent Federal Code sections. One of the provisions states that no state can have any regulation related to vehicle safety other than a direct quote of the Federal requirement. I guess that's why the provision was dropped from the Idaho Code since it was redundant and added nothing to the law.

    Naturally, I will plead not guilty and send copies of the Federal Reg and the info about the modulator I have installed to the county prosecutor in Lewiston. I'll send a copy to the officer although I'm doubtful he'll seek to have the ticket killed. He was nice enough to give me his card with his email. If he doesn't offer to ask the prosecutor to kill the ticket then I'll submit a Citizen Complaint to the headquarters of the Idaho State Police. This is the first time in 11 years of riding with a headlight modulator that any police officer has questioned it. I guess I'll make a copy of the codes and carry them with my registration and proof of insurance.

    For anyone who is wondering what the codes say here are the copies I'll be sending.

    CFR-2016-title49-vol6-sec571-108-2 Pages 375-376 Hilited.pdf

    USCODE-2011-title49-subtitleVI-partA-chap301-subchapI-sec30103 Page 540.pdf

    Kisan Headlight Modulator 1.jpg

    Kisan Headlight Modulator 2.jpg
    Last edited by IdahoMtnSpyder; 09-16-2017 at 11:14 PM.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  2. #2
    Very Active Member pitzerwm's Avatar
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    Only the PA can toss the ticket. When you call/send him the info, if he isn't a moron they will drop it. If not of course, you have a false arrest case.

    I'm surprised that a state trouper would make that mistake, but then again another of your troupers (with a Napoleonic complex) stopped me for "passing on the right" on I84. After, bringing to his attention that I had been undercover for WA, and "I'm sure that you are correct, in ID, but not in WA", he decided to give me a firm warning and let me go.


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  3. #3
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    If you're in the right: be thankful, and take your day in Court!
    I would never expect a Patrol Officer to be 127% versed in all traffic laws... all of the time!
    Did you always know EVERY aspect of your job; ALL of the time?
    Probably not!
    If you found a gap in your knowledge: you took the time to learn what you needed. That's just human nature.

    Good luck!
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  4. #4
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    Interesting story.

    But what exactly is a headlight modulator?

  5. #5
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    It continuously changes from high beam, to low beam. It makes you more visible, while completely annoying everyone around you!
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  6. #6
    Very Active Member jaherbst's Avatar
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    I never liked them myself. They annoy me when driving and I will start flashing my brights intermittently when they approach me head on. Get a bright

    Helmut or wear a bright T-shirt. This only annoys others on the Highway and could put you in more danger by someone with "Road rage".

    Jack
    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaherbst View Post

    I never liked them myself.
    Me neither.....on other vehicles or mine.

    Sometimes things like that get TOO MUCH attention from other drivers and "target fixation" comes into play, making you less safe instead of more.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    I hate them too. They tend to piss off other drivers getting exactly the wrong kind of attention from others. Including bikers. There are far better ways to be seen without the annoyance.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
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  9. #9
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Headlight modulators

    I've had the modulators on by 2 wheelers for years and like them a lot ( Not on the spyder ) I shut the off when following anyone. Oncoming traffic SEES Me, which is what I want.

    Kaos
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

    2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
    2014 RTS , Circuit Yellow

  10. #10
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Default

    I tell him the search the Idaho Code. Well, as it turns out, a section I remember seeing in the Idaho code specifically citing the Federal reg on modulators is no longer in the code. So of course he couldn't find it. He did not for one second believe me about modulators being allowed, even after I explained the differences between them and emergency vehicle flashing headlights. So he wrote me a citation for having flashing lights.



    Kisan Headlight Modulator 2.jpg[/QUOTE]

    In Ohio most police will listen to some reason. But disputing any issue with the "Highway Patrol" is a waste of time
    2015 F3's , two 12 volt power outlets Orange & Black

  11. #11
    Registered Users classicvw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaherbst View Post
    I never liked them myself. They annoy me when driving and I will start flashing my brights intermittently when they approach me head on. Get a bright

    Helmut or wear a bright T-shirt. This only annoys others on the Highway and could put you in more danger by someone with "Road rage".

    Jack

    I absolutely LOVE them. Sorry if it annoys you, but that tells me it served its purpose-you noticed me. While it's certainly not my intent to annoy anyone, it's legal, so suck it up and stop flashing your high beams. Doing that is a violation, not my headlight modulator.

    Oh, and I already wear a bright white helmet and a bright yellow riding jacket. The intent here is to stay alive. You as a rider should appreciate that.

  12. #12
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    How is it even possible to modulate the headlights on a 2014RT? There is no hi / low beam on those.
    2014 RTL Platinum


  13. #13
    Very Active Member KX5062's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    This past Wednesday while driving to Lewiston, ID I see the dreaded blue and red flashing lights behind me. I stop, take off my helmet, get off the Spyder and wait for the officer to approach. "What did I miss?", I asked thinking I must have been speeding or something of the sort.

    "Your flashing lights, they're not allowed."

    "They're not flashing. They are modulated. Headlight modulators are specifically allowed on motorcycles."

    "Never heard of such a thing."

    I tell him the search the Idaho Code. Well, as it turns out, a section I remember seeing in the Idaho code specifically citing the Federal reg on modulators is no longer in the code. So of course he couldn't find it. He did not for one second believe me about modulators being allowed, even after I explained the differences between them and emergency vehicle flashing headlights. So he wrote me a citation for having flashing lights.

    Today I finally found the pertinent Federal Code sections. One of the provisions states that no state can have any regulation related to vehicle safety other than a direct quote of the Federal requirement. I guess that's why the provision was dropped from the Idaho Code since it was redundant and added nothing to the law.

    Naturally, I will plead not guilty and send copies of the Federal Reg and the info about the modulator I have installed to the county prosecutor in Lewiston. I'll send a copy to the officer although I'm doubtful he'll seek to have the ticket killed. He was nice enough to give me his card with his email. If he doesn't offer to ask the prosecutor to kill the ticket then I'll submit a Citizen Complaint to the headquarters of the Idaho State Police. This is the first time in 11 years of riding with a headlight modulator that any police officer has questioned it. I guess I'll make a copy of the codes and carry them with my registration and proof of insurance.

    For anyone who is wondering what the codes say here are the copies I'll be sending.

    CFR-2016-title49-vol6-sec571-108-2 Pages 375-376 Hilited.pdf

    USCODE-2011-title49-subtitleVI-partA-chap301-subchapI-sec30103 Page 540.pdf

    Kisan Headlight Modulator 1.jpg

    Kisan Headlight Modulator 2.jpg

    A "citizen's complaint" is for wrongdoing or malfeasance, it is not for a lack of a proper understand of obscure federal regulations that can be contradictory to state laws. And, then not being able to find it along side of the road while keeping himself and you from getting run over or whatever. Give the guy a break, he did what he did while seemingly being professional, courteous and polite. Besides, there are many federal regulations that are completely disregarded by states, and since the police enforce state laws and not federal regulations, that's what they do. (For example: Been reading the news lately about federal immigration laws that are being disregarded by states and local authorities?)

    Quote Originally Posted by pitzerwm View Post
    Only the PA can toss the ticket. When you call/send him the info, if he isn't a moron they will drop it. If not of course, you have a false arrest case.

    I'm surprised that a state trouper would make that mistake, but then again another of your troupers (with a Napoleonic complex) stopped me for "passing on the right" on I84. After, bringing to his attention that I had been undercover for WA, and "I'm sure that you are correct, in ID, but not in WA", he decided to give me a firm warning and let me go.
    "False arrest"? Seriously? Are you kidding? It's a ticket, NOT an arrest. A ticket is a detention, NOT an arrest.

    I don't know what a "PA" is, but in most places tickets can not be "tossed out", they can only be dismissed by a judicial authority. Also, in most jurisdictions tickets are filed directly to the court, so they do not go through a local prosecuting authority, hence only the judge can dismiss it. Now, the officer in some cases can file an amendment to the ticket requesting dismissal citing some kind of legal grounds, but that is mostly the closet you're going to get.

    You pass on the right and then you accuse an officer of having short man's syndrome for warning you and not scratching you. Seriously, you need to get a grip.
    2020 RTL SE6

    Previously 2008 GS SM5 and 2014 RT SE6






  14. #14
    Registered Users classicvw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    How is it even possible to modulate the headlights on a 2014RT? There is no hi / low beam on those.
    I have them on my two wheelers, I haven't researched yet for my Spyder. I've only owned it less than a month and 10 days of that I was away on vacation so I am riding it first, then compiling a list of wanted / needed farkles.

  15. #15
    Registered Users classicvw's Avatar
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    KX5062,

    "PA" I assume he means prosecutor. In NJ, traffic tickets are handled at the local level and it actually varies from court to court on the ways tickets can be amended or tossed. Each Judge has his own rules sometimes. The prosecutor is supposed to check first with the complaining officer, but many times it's done behind his back and without his input. All the prosecutor needs to do is, in open court, tell the judge the state cannot proceed and wants to withdraw said complaint. The judge will be glad to lessen the Court's case load, and will most likely grant it without asking any questions as to why.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member Grandpot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    How is it even possible to modulate the headlights on a 2014RT? There is no hi / low beam on those.
    A modulating light does not go from high beam to low beam. It actually varies the power to the high beam between 100% to 70% and then back to 100%. Because it works on only one filiment, it works fine on a Spyder. I have used one one my Valkyrie for 8 years with no problems.
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  17. #17
    Active Member ES44AC's Avatar
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    I am a big supporter of the LEO and the need for them BUT, most traffic tickets are rarely about safety. Most of the traffic tickets are used as a revenue tool for state and local governments.
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  18. #18
    Registered Users classicvw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ES44AC View Post
    I am a big supporter of the LEO and the need for them BUT, most traffic tickets are rarely about safety. Most of the traffic tickets are used as a revenue tool for state and local governments.
    Your complaint is with the state and local government. Believe me, individual LEOs do their job writing tickets because they care about keeping the motoring public (and pedestrians and bicyclists) safe. Most actually push back when they are pressured to write more when they feel the request is for purely financial reasons.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    How is it even possible to modulate the headlights on a 2014RT? There is no hi / low beam on those.
    I had high and low beams on my 14 RT.
    PrairieSpyder (Patti)

  20. #20
    SpyderLovers Sponsor Motorcycledave's Avatar
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    Default I had the same thing...

    I had the same thing a few years ago while riding my Honda ST1100
    short story, got a ticket took it to court pled not guilty got a court date
    officer had to be there, judge took the time to check the laws state and federal
    then educated the officer and dropped the case.
    end of story.

  21. #21
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    Default I must be lucky

    All of my motorcycle experiences with law enforcement have been positive. I have been stopped several times. Each time it was to talk about what I was riding (old Harley, Spyder, TriGlide). Having been a Military Policeman, I enjoy getting to talk to them about my rides. Going to court will save you a fine and also help educate this officer for he may not be aware of all the laws. When you go to court, take the time to interact with the officer. You may find that you have a new friend.

  22. #22
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    I don't like modulators. So for me, the problem is already solved. Will watch the thread to see the legal outcome.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

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  23. #23
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieSpyder View Post
    I had high and low beams on my 14 RT.
    Yes there are high/low beams. The bulb does not have separate filaments for the settings. The Spyder has a headlight "shutter" which drops down to obscure the "full" light from high beam position to "partial" light for low beam position. The "thunk" you hear when changing from high to low is the shutter kicking in.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by akspyderman View Post
    Yes there are high/low beams. The bulb does not have separate filaments for the settings. The Spyder has a headlight "shutter" which drops down to obscure the "full" light from high beam position to "partial" light for low beam position. The "thunk" you hear when changing from high to low is the shutter kicking in.
    Yes, there is only one headlight 'beam' which gets partially obscured by the shutter when the switch is in the 'low' beam position. Unlike standard halogen hi/low bulbs, which have two different filaments; one for low beam and both for high beam, as you said.

    When modulating a halogen hi/lo bulb, the electronics are basically cycling the high beam filament on and off (as I understand it). With the RT's shutter and only one 'filament' in the LED headlight, to modulate it the shutter would have to keep cycling open and closed.

    Maybe there is a special LED bulb for the RTs which allows modulation? I haven't heard of one but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
    2014 RTL Platinum


  25. #25
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Yes, I know that. There is only one headlight beam which gets partially obscured by the shutter when the switch is in the 'low' beam position. Unlike standard halogen hi/low bulbs, which have two different filaments; one for low beam and both for high beam, as you said.

    When modulating a halogen hi/lo bulb, the electronics are basically cycling the high beam filament on and off (as I understand it). With the RT's shutter and only one 'filament' in the LED headlight, to modulate it the shutter would have to keep cycling open and closed.

    Maybe there is a special LED bulb for the RTs which allows modulation? I haven't heard of one but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
    RE: Shutter I was replying to Prairie Spyder sidebar. Sorry for the Hi-Jack. Thanks for the additional information.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
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