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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Well said Peter , well said ..... Unfortunately there is an old adage " you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make them drink it ". Some people can grasp LOGIC, but others cannot, no matter how good your information is....... Mike
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  2. #52
    Very Active Member jaherbst's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Peter Aawen;1301322]Don't kid yourself Jack, Spyders with std rims can't actually EVER wear real 'motorcycle tires' - & that's especially the case if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas!!!

    Quite simply, the OE Kendas are NOT real 'motorcycle tires'; they aren't constructed like a motorcycle tire, they don't have motorcycle tire beads, they don't have motorcycle treads, and they are not designed to nor do they work like motorcycle tires!! Besides, you simply CANNOT safely fit ANY real 'motorcycle tire' onto any std Spyder rim anyway!! They might physically be able to be fitted, but the true 'motorcycle tire' bead profile is so significantly different to the Spyder rim which is designed to hold a car bead profile tire that taking your very first corner with a real motorcycle tire jammed onto the Spyder's car rim may well be your last!!

    That 'for special motorcycle use only' or whatever the stamp on the side of the OE Kendas may be is simply a made up & effectively meaningless label pulled out of someone's behind with no real validity apart from helping to con the suckers into thinking the Kendas are something special (when any vaguely competent tire tech can see at a glance that they aren't!) and to warn car owners NOT to put the Kendas onto their car because that would be MASSIVELY UNSAFE....

    So your favourite mantra really should be "if you want more mileage, buy 'real' car tires. If you want safety, buy 'real' car tires". And don't let a few posters who are clearly unaware of the reality about these tires (and insist upon telling us all that they are "so sick of these endless tire threads" but never miss an opportunity to read them & then post up in them telling us that once again..... repeatedly!!) tell you that the OE Kendas are anything but cheaply produced poor quality car tires, cos THAT IS all that the OE Spec Kendas are!!'

    I'm just waiting for the first law-suit bringing BRP to task about trying to con people that the sub-par tires they insist upon fitting to our Spyders are anything but sub-par car tires.... it's not a matter of IF, it's more a matter of WHEN!! Hopefully, it won't bankrupt the company or force them to stop making Spyders, because apart from the crappy Kenda CAR tires that are clearly NOT true 'Motorcycle Tires', our Spyders are actually pretty fantastic machines! [/QUOT


    Peter, I'm surprised even an astute individual such as your own self with strong (possibly wrong) opinions does not know a motorcycle tire from a car tire. What separates the two is the compound from which the tire is made. Motorcycle tires are a softer compound and thus provides more traction at any speed thus the safety factor. A softer compound will always wear much quicker than a harder less traction car tire. Average M/C rear tires get 8-12,000 miles depending on riding style. BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner.

    Jack
    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.
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  3. #53
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    BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner. Jack [/QUOTE]

    Jack, this is good info but how reliable is it? Where are you getting this from?
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  4. #54
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
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    I ride in a reasonable manor and got 10,000 from the rear tire on my 2016 F3L. Now I have a General Altimax RT43 on the rear.
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  5. #55
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    As the old saying goes; Never yell "Tire!" in a crowded Spyder Forum.

  6. #56
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default NEW CRAPENDA

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner. Jack
    Jack, this is good info but how reliable is it? Where are you getting this from?[/QUOTE]
    IMHO ..... if they are using a Firmer compound they are still Bad but for a different reason ...... Their compound was not causing pre-mature Wear .... It's too FEW tread Belts / Plies which results in the tire Ballooning at anything above about 35 MPH ...... this causes the middle of their tire to wear first ( big time ). Also a Firmer compound isn't going to improve WET road driving ..... Mike
    Last edited by BLUEKNIGHT911; 09-18-2017 at 04:36 PM.

  7. #57
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaherbst View Post


    Peter, I'm surprised even an astute individual such as your own self with strong (possibly wrong) opinions does not know a motorcycle tire from a car tire. What separates the two is the compound from which the tire is made. Motorcycle tires are a softer compound and thus provides more traction at any speed thus the safety factor. A softer compound will always wear much quicker than a harder less traction car tire. Average M/C rear tires get 8-12,000 miles depending on riding style. BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner.

    Jack
    Sorry but this is flat out wrong. There are motorcycle tires with hard compounds, there are car tires with very soft compounds. The durometer of the rubber has nothing to do with the tire type.

    Motorcycle tires and automotive tires are defined by the SAE by PROFILE, not compound.

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  8. #58
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Sorry but this is flat out wrong. There are motorcycle tires with hard compounds, there are car tires with very soft compounds. The durometer of the rubber has nothing to do with the tire type.

    Motorcycle tires and automotive tires are defined by the SAE by PROFILE, not compound.
    JC's post pretty much covers it all Jack.

    And no matter what BRP or Kenda or even you might prefer us to believe & despite the 'let's see how many of the suckers we can fool' label stuck on the sidewall, for all intents & purposes & I strongly suspect even by legal definition in your country as well as here in mine, the OE Spec Kenda tires that they put on our Spyders are light-weight/lightly constructed Passenger CAR tires!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-19-2017 at 07:39 PM.
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  9. #59
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    I just picked up my rear tire and wheel from the local Can-Am dealer. The tire is a General Altimax which they mounted and balanced for $40.

    The service manager had returned from the BRP dealers' show where he was in a discussion with a BRP engineer and a couple other dealers when the car tire issue came up. Apparently, this engineer was only concerned about the replacement tire having similar adhesion qualities to the OEM and not differing from the OEM too much in terms of inflated diameter, as this has been known to throw VSS codes. The dealer (from Texas) said he has had a couple of customers come in with VSS codes which were traced to the customer having car tires (the brand and size not mentioned); nothing would clear the codes until they put an OEM tire on the bike.

    My service manager just wanted me to be aware of this and asked that before I go on any long ride I first ride 100 miles locally so that if a problem arose with the VSS I wouldn't be surprised and would be close enough for them to look into it right away. He was very interested in knowing how my experience with the car tire worked out because apparently there is a dealer forum where this is a hot topic and he wanted to provide some relevant input.

    This is just an FYI that neither BRP or the dealers apparently are ignoring this issue or taking the easy way out of refusing to deal with a customer who has non-OEM tires on their Spyder.
    Last edited by UtahPete; 09-27-2017 at 05:43 PM.
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  10. #60
    Very Active Member Larry rt's Avatar
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    I have same tire on 2013 rt ltd , over 10,000 miles no issues as of too dat. Federal on front installed. . So far no issues!

  11. #61
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Post TIRES !!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    I just picked up my rear tire and wheel from the local Can-Am dealer. The tire is a General Altimax which they mounted and balanced for $40.

    The service manager had returned from the BRP dealers' show where he was in a discussion with a BRP engineer and a couple other dealers when the car tire issue came up. Apparently, this engineer was only concerned about the replacement tire having similar adhesion qualities to the OEM and not differing from the OEM too much in terms of inflated diameter, as this has been known to throw VSS codes. The dealer (from Texas) said he has had a couple of customers come in with VSS codes which were traced to the customer having car tires (the brand and size not mentioned); nothing would clear the codes until they put an OEM tire on the bike.... This is pure unadulterated BS if this is even marginally true ... then how come NONE of my 3 spyders which all had Car type tires for most of their lives ....NEVER threw a VSS code in 75,000+... miles The amount of horse-pucky that some of these BRP folks SPEW ... makes me wish that, if they LIE, their nose grows like it did for Pinocchio ...

    My service manager just wanted me to be aware of this and asked that before I go on any long ride I first ride 100 miles locally so that if a problem arose with the VSS I wouldn't be surprised and would be close enough for them to look into it right away. He was very interested in knowing how my experience with the car tire worked out because apparently there is a dealer forum where this is a hot topic and he wanted to provide some relevant input.

    This is just an FYI that neither BRP or the dealers apparently are ignoring this issue or taking the easy way out of refusing to deal with a customer who has non-OEM tires on their Spyder.
    ....My answer is in RED above .... Mike

  12. #62
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default TIRES

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    JC's post pretty much covers it all Jack.

    And no matter what BRP or Kenda or even you might prefer us to believe & despite the 'let's see how many of the suckers we can fool' label stuck on the sidewall, for all intents & purposes & I strongly suspect even by legal definition in your country as well as here in mine, the OE Spec Kenda tires that they put on our Spyders are light-weight/lightly constructed Passenger CAR tires!
    Peter I agree with you 99.999999 % of the time , but on this I don't, in respect that the Kenda Spyder Tire would end up a Disaster on any Auto made today ...... Mike

  13. #63
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    This is pure unadulterated BS if this is even marginally true ... then how come NONE of my 3 spyders which all had Car type tires for most of their lives ....NEVER threw a VSS code in 75,000+... miles The amount of horse-pucky that some of these BRP folks SPEW ... makes me wish that, if they LIE, their nose grows like it did for Pinocchio
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ....My answer is in RED above .... Mike
    Mike, take it easy man before you hurt yourself I was just relaying what my service manager heard from another dealer (not the BRP rep). He was just saying that IF I have trouble with VSS it might be because of the tire. I told him this tire (the Altimax) is the same one as on my other bike and I don't have VSS issues with that one.

    He is just curious is all; he really would like to have a good outcome to relay back to his dealer's forum.

    Remember, not everyone reads this forum and is aware of the need to mount a proven car tire; who knows what the tires were that threw codes...
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  14. #64
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    UtahPete, it's not just that none of Mike's Spyders have ever thrown a codes because they were running car tires, there's also my Spyder & there's also the THOUSANDS of other Spyders out there running proper car tires successfully for 100's of thousands of miles all up & all entirely without throwing codes or upsetting the VSS in any way that puts paid to the myth about real car tires being an issue on our Spyders!!

    And yeah Mike, I see what you are saying, but there's no denying that for all intents & purposes the OE Spec Kendas are made exactly like all other passenger car tires, just a whole lot lighter & weaker!! They are not IN ANY RESPECT a proper 'motorcycle tire', while their construction IS entirely that of a passenger car tire EXCEPT that they are so dangerously lightweight & seemingly made with very little (if any) care or quality control! And yes, you are exactly right about the dangers of putting them under a car - they'd certainly fit, in fact they ONLY fit on car rims, but they just aren't capable of doing the job of carrying a car safely; heck, IMO they barely do the job of carrying our Spyders, let alone really do it 'safely'!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    UtahPete, it's not just that none of Mike's Spyders have ever thrown a codes because they were running car tires, there's also my Spyder & there's also the THOUSANDS of other Spyders out there running proper car tires successfully for 100's of thousands of miles all up & all entirely without throwing codes or upsetting the VSS in any way that puts paid to the myth about real car tires being an issue on our Spyders!! And yeah Mike, I see what you are saying, but there's no denying that for all intents & purposes the OE Spec Kendas are made exactly like all other passenger car tires, just a whole lot lighter & weaker!! They are not IN ANY RESPECT a proper 'motorcycle tire', while their construction IS entirely that of a passenger car tire EXCEPT that they are so dangerously lightweight & seemingly made with very little (if any) care or quality control! And yes, you are exactly right about the dangers of putting them under a car - they'd certainly fit, in fact they ONLY fit on car rims, but they just aren't capable of doing the job of carrying a car safely; heck, IMO they barely do the job of carrying our Spyders, let alone really do it 'safely'!
    Yeah, I understand. I just thought you'd find it interesting that my dealer really wanted to understand this better. We may have lots of anecdotal evidence here on SpyderLovers.com but somehow that info isn't getting over to the dealer forum and he'd like to rectify that.
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  16. #66
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default HURTING ONESELF

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    This is pure unadulterated BS if this is even marginally true ... then how come NONE of my 3 spyders which all had Car type tires for most of their lives ....NEVER threw a VSS code in 75,000+... miles The amount of horse-pucky that some of these BRP folks SPEW ... makes me wish that, if they LIE, their nose grows like it did for Pinocchio

    Mike, take it easy man before you hurt yourself I was just relaying what my service manager heard from another dealer (not the BRP rep). He was just saying that IF I have trouble with VSS it might be because of the tire. I told him this tire (the Altimax) is the same one as on my other bike and I don't have VSS issues with that one.

    He is just curious is all; he really would like to have a good outcome to relay back to his dealer's forum.

    Remember, not everyone reads this forum and is aware of the need to mount a proven car tire; who knows what the tires were that threw codes...
    Pete if you thought my post was a rebuke or chastisement of you ....... ...you have that completely Wrong ..... I know ( from your wording ) WHO was throwing the BS so my large red type was not directed at you .... It was the " less than honest or informed " people who were throwing the BS .............. mis-understandings , this is why I DON'T TEXT ........ Mike
    Last edited by BLUEKNIGHT911; 09-27-2017 at 08:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Pete if you thought my post was a rebuke or chastisement of you ...you have that completely Wrong ..... I know ( from your wording ) WHO was throwing the BS so my large red type was not directed at you .... It was the " less than honest or informed " people who were throwing the BS .............. mis-understandings , this is why I DON'T TEXT ........ Mike
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    Default Specified tire size per manual

    For reference sake, on this thread, here are the tire sizes per my 2014RT manual

    Front tire; 165/55R15

    Rear tire: 225/50R15

    Could one of our tire experts explain the three numbers before and two numbers after the slash xxx/xx and what would be acceptable alternative sizes? Thanks.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    For reference sake, on this thread, here are the tire sizes per my 2014RT manual

    Front tire; 165/55R15

    Rear tire: 225/50R15

    Could one of our tire experts explain the three numbers before and two numbers after the slash xxx/xx and what would be acceptable alternative sizes? Thanks.
    Well I'm no tire expert but here is a link that explains your question on what the numbers mean:
    http://www.justtires.com/content/con...eName=TireSize

    I'm not sure about acceptable alternative sizes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HankD View Post
    Well I'm no tire expert but here is a link that explains your question on what the numbers mean: http://www.justtires.com/content/con...eName=TireSize I'm not sure about acceptable alternative sizes.
    Tire Width is the width of the tire measured in millimeters from sidewall to sidewall. The first three-digit number in the tire size refers to the tire width. For instance, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the width is 215 millimeters.

    Aspect Ratio is the ratio of the height of the tire's cross-section to its width. The two-digit number after the slash mark in a tire size is the aspect ratio. For example, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the 65 means that the height is equal to 65% of the tire's width. The bigger the aspect ratio, the bigger the tire's sidewall will be.
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  21. #71
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default TIRE CHART

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Tire Width is the width of the tire measured in millimeters from sidewall to sidewall. The first three-digit number in the tire size refers to the tire width. For instance, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the width is 215 millimeters.

    Aspect Ratio is the ratio of the height of the tire's cross-section to its width. The two-digit number after the slash mark in a tire size is the aspect ratio. For example, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the 65 means that the height is equal to 65% of the tire's width. The bigger the aspect ratio, the bigger the tire's sidewall will be.
    This is good info ----- However you need to remember that the Chart is a mathematical formula ......... Every tire manufacturer has somewhat different products in actual production tires ..... you must check their posted dimensions , so you know EXACTLY what you getting / buying .........jmho .... Mike

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    ^^^ Mike's highlighted it, but I still feel the need to really drive it home (sorry, but ignore it at your peril!)

    While the info printed on the sidewall is a good start, it is ONLY the Nominal Size for that tire as decided by the tire manufacturer, and different manufacturers often use different methods to decide what size to call their different tires!! Sometimes a manufacturer may even use different methods between their own different tire tread patterns or specialist tires! Some use the size of the basic carcass (before the tread layers of rubber are added) while others use the size of the completed tire (after the tread layers are added) and they may also use everything in between, plus there may be minor differences in tread depth & ply rating and all sorts of other things - I've seen differences of over 1" in diameter &/or width between identically size labelled tires as a result! So those Nominal Sizes are only a 'best guess' guide AT BEST!! If you are varying your fitted tire size or brand, be very careful in checking the size & DO NOT rely on the Nominal Size printed on the sidewall!!

    So while one manufacturer/tire wearing 165/55R15 or 225/50R15 MIGHT fit your Spyder, that is NO Guarantee that any other tire wearing the same size on the sidewall will fit your Spyder as well - you really NEED to compare things like the rolling diameter or circumference of the PARTICULAR TIRE you wish to fit against those of a tire already known to fit your model Spyder, not just the nominal sizes, or you might be embarrased!! Here on this Forum, I believe we have seen reports from people running tires labelled with sizes from 205/65R15's thru to 225/65R15's on the rear & from 155/65R15's thru to 185/50R15's up front in a variety of tire brands, specs, & tread patterns without significant variations in the actual tire sizes... so I'll say it again - You really NEED to compare things like the rolling diameter or circumference of the PARTICULAR TIRE you wish to fit against those of a tire already known to fit your model Spyder, not just the nominal sizes, or you might be embarrased!!
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    Default Tire sizes differ between manufacturers; the same 'nominal' size can be different!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    ^^^ Mike's highlighted it, but I still feel the need to really drive it home (sorry, but ignore it at your peril!)
    Peter, I realize this, which is why I have been asking people to specify the tire make, model and size they are using and reporting on. It's also why I ask the 'tire experts' like you and Mike to be as specific as possible when recommending a tire, in the hope that others will take the hint. Just using Formoza's as an example (on a different thread), most folks who respond do not specify the model of Formoza and nobody mentioned the size they were using. Someone who I think should know better just said 'original size'.
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