OEM vs car tires on Spyder 2014+ RT; let's consolidate the advice in one place

[pegasus1300]

2012 RT l
I replaced the rear at 10,000 miles. It could have gone maybe another 2000 but I was going on a long trip so took the opportunity to get a new tire. I live in rural central Utah,not lots of choices here. I went to the local tire store in Mt.Pleasant and asked him if he had a problem putting a car tire on the back of my Spyder. He laughed and said he had 4 different tire machines,one of them would work,but he didn't want to tackle removing the wheel. I said I didn't want him doing that either so I would bring him the wheel. I asked him for his best tire and gave me a MasterCraft Touring LSR and I have no complaints. I have over 20,000 miles on that tire and it is probably good for another 15,000 to 20,000. Balanced with Dyna Beads.

Fronts I bought off the internet cheap,don't remember the Company. Replaced the stock Kendas at 20,000 cause of poor alignment.Should have had another 5000 in them. Same dealer mounted and balanced them,they handle great and not much wear in 11000 miles.

[KX5062]

I'll play.

2014 RT

Fronts:
stock Kenda replaced at 23,215 miles. They still has life, but were exhibiting an unpleasant wear pattern (feathering), but probably still had about another 5k left. If nothing else better was available, I'd be okay with them again.

Replaced with Federal EVO tires in stock size. Currently at about 40k miles and they still have tons of life left. I run them at 18# of pressure. They are a little too hard of rubber compound, but they work well under a variety of conditions if kept at lower pressures.

Rear:
stock Kenda 7,440 miles. Crap tire, never again.

Replaced with a Kumho Ecsta (225 50R 15) Replaced at 11,441 miles Mounting and balancing was fine. Okay tire, but short life span for a touring tire/bike.

Replaced with a General Altimax (215 60R 15). Replaced at 14,389 miles. Not impressed. It was very difficult to mount and took a ton of weight to balance. (it could have been a bad tire) Good handling, but a disappointingly short life.

Replaced with a Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring (215 60R 15) currently at about 7k miles and counting. So far I really like this tire a lot. If it continues to deliver like it has so far, this will be my go-to tire for the Spyder. Easy mounting and balancing, great handling under all conditions (no snow/ice) and so far excellent wear characteristics.

[UtahPete]

Sorry but the FACT that the Kuhmo has less wet road traction than most other recommended tires and the Yokohama S-Drive that we replace them with for this reason is not an opinion when it has been proven in real world results time and again on the Spyder. Back to back testing on the same bike, time and again, same results. This is first hand knowledge having installed many replacements.

Thanks for the clarification. That's helpful.

[KX5062]

Thanks that was a very helpful report. Here's hoping you don't run into ice and snow on the central california coast (my favorite place in the world)

Funny, my favorite place is Utah.

[UtahPete]

I learned a couple of things at the NoCal rally this week. I spoke to the BRP rep about the Kenda rear tire wear issue and the problem of getting a dealer to put an non-Kenda tire on it. I'll summarize his comments;

1. BRP has no policy or contract language with dealers that would prevent a dealer from installing a non-Kenda tire on a Spyder. Any dealers who say so are mistaken or are using that as an excuse for their own reluctance to deal with the problem (incidentally, my dealer said 'no problem'; they just wanted me to sign a liability waiver)
2. BRP has no stake in Kenda, or agreement with Kenda that requires BRP to use Kenda tires on their machines.
3. The reason BRP uses Kenda is that when BRP was designing the Spyder, they wrote up unique specs for the tires and Kenda was the only tire manufacturer willing to make a special-use tire in such small quantities.
4. BRP's specs for the Spyder tires is based on collaboration with Bosch (without whose technology and partnership the Spyder would never have left the drawing board), which designs and provides components for the VSS and ABS systems.
5. He was not aware of the unusual rear tire wear pattern on the Kenda rear tires, which shortens its useful life, but surmises it is because of the BRP specs, not because Kenda doesn't know how to build a quality tire.
6. He is going to pass this concern along to engineering to see if something can be done about it; it's not good PR to have owners upset over rear tire wear and lack of cooperation from dealers.

He also told me something else that I thought interesting. Before going to work for BRP (he was one of those testing and tweaking the pre-production bikes), he worked in a similar capacity at Yamaha. Back in the '80s Yamaha experimented with a reverse trike but couldn't figure out how to make it stable on the road; several of their test riders were seriously hurt trying them out. Yamaha dropped the project, not because of lack of interest in the concept but because the technology at the time wasn't available (ABS and VSS). It was the partnership with Bosch that enabled BRP to overcome those stability issues; the Spyder would not have been possible without Bosch's technology.

One of the members of this forum (who is also one of the leaders of the SRA-Sacramento chapter which hosted the rally), chimed into the conversation I was having with the BRP guy and said that his understanding of the Kenda tires is that for the 2013-2014 model years there was a batch of tires later discovered to be defective in some way (maybe the rubber compound formula), resulting in the unusually short life of the Kendas. He thought perhaps newer tires don't have that problem, as he has over 15k miles on his Kenda rear tire (I think he has a 2016 F3).

Anyway, just to let you know that BRP is going to look into these issues and try to come up with a solution. Meanwhile, they have no concerns about us using non-Kenda tires. Just be aware that some tires may be too sticky or not sticky enough for the VSS to work properly. If so, the owner bears the risk.

[WA5VHU]

I love the Kenda's on my wife's RTL.

Ostrich-man-head-in-sand.gif


Until they turned out to be defective and at only 3,000 miles BRP wouldn't stand behind them even though they knew they had a defective batch.

I put real tires on the front and the improvement in performance was amazing, plus no more of the Spyder trying to constantly run off onto the shoulder of the road.

Real tires.

Continental ContiEcoContact EP 175/55R15, the only thing I could find locally that would fit. Made a world of difference in the performance of the trike! I forget how much air I put in.

Still have the POS on the back, can't wait for it to wear out or come apart so I have an excuse to put something of quality on it.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I learned a couple of things at the NoCal rally this week. I spoke to the BRP rep about the Kenda rear tire wear issue and the problem of getting a dealer to put an non-Kenda tire on it. I'll summarize his comments;

1. BRP has no policy or contract language with dealers that would prevent a dealer from installing a non-Kenda tire on a Spyder. Any dealers who say so are mistaken or are using that as an excuse for their own reluctance to deal with the problem (incidentally, my dealer said 'no problem'; they just wanted me to sign a liability waiver)
2. BRP has no stake in Kenda, or agreement with Kenda that requires BRP to use Kenda tires on their machines.
3. The reason BRP uses Kenda is that when BRP was designing the Spyder, they wrote up unique specs for the tires and Kenda was the only tire manufacturer willing to make a special-use tire in such small quantities.
4. BRP's specs for the Spyder tires is based on collaboration with Bosch (without whose technology and partnership the Spyder would never have left the drawing board), which designs and provides components for the VSS and ABS systems.
5. He was not aware of the unusual rear tire wear pattern on the Kenda rear tires, which shortens its useful life, but surmises it is because of the BRP specs, not because Kenda doesn't know how to build a quality tire.
6. He is going to pass this concern along to engineering to see if something can be done about it; it's not good PR to have owners upset over rear tire wear and lack of cooperation from dealers.

He also told me something else that I thought interesting. Before going to work for BRP (he was one of those testing and tweaking the pre-production bikes), he worked in a similar capacity at Yamaha. Back in the '80s Yamaha experimented with a reverse trike but couldn't figure out how to make it stable on the road; several of their test riders were seriously hurt trying them out. Yamaha dropped the project, not because of lack of interest in the concept but because the technology at the time wasn't available (ABS and VSS). It was the partnership with Bosch that enabled BRP to overcome those stability issues; the Spyder would not have been possible without Bosch's technology.

One of the members of this forum (who is also one of the leaders of the SRA-Sacramento chapter which hosted the rally), chimed into the conversation I was having with the BRP guy and said that his understanding of the Kenda tires is that for the 2013-2014 model years there was a batch of tires later discovered to be defective in some way (maybe the rubber compound formula), resulting in the unusually short life of the Kendas. He thought perhaps newer tires don't have that problem, as he has over 15k miles on his Kenda rear tire (I think he has a 2016 F3).

Anyway, just to let you know that BRP is going to look into these issues and try to come up with a solution. Meanwhile, they have no concerns about us using non-Kenda tires. Just be aware that some tires may be too sticky or not sticky enough for the VSS to work properly. If so, the owner bears the risk.

Sorry but I don't agree with 95 % of what you just said .........#5., if the dealer told you that ....they are pretty much clueless about KENDA tires or have no compunction about lying ............ Mike

[jaherbst]

I'm so sick of these endless tire threads I'm going to take my tires off and run the Spyder on the rims. Damn people won't this insecurity ever end. Make

your own choice of tires. You can make a decision can't you. Not one person on here has a clue about tires including me. If you want more mileage buy car tires. If you want safety buy motorcycle tires. Don't let a few overly strong (and possibly wrong) opinions sway you. Nuff said!

Jack

[Bob Denman]

Hey Jack...
What kind of tires do you use on the Maverick?




How about tire pressures???

[Fat Baxter]

BRP has no policy or contract language with dealers that would prevent a dealer from installing a non-Kenda tire on a Spyder. ..... they have no concerns about us using non-Kenda tires. Just be aware that some tires may be too sticky or not sticky enough for the VSS to work properly. If so, the owner bears the risk.

Well, okey-doakey then, but have they issued an all-points advisory to the dealers advising them of this? The last time I pulsed my dealer on this, they said no way.

If they have sent such an advisory, how about posting a PDF of it here, so we can print it out and show our dealers if, for some reason, they haven't read or don't recall that particular advisory?

[jaherbst]

Hey Jack...
What kind of tires do you use on the Maverick?




How about tire pressures???

Bob, I think half of the posts are from people who want to join in but don't know what to say or what subject to use so they use tires! I always use the OEM or what the manufacturer recommends. As you know I

have a lot of toys and this philosophy as not led me astray yet. ( 100,000,000 + miles to prove it )

Jack

[jcthorne]

I learned a couple of things at the NoCal rally this week. I spoke to the BRP rep about the Kenda rear tire wear issue and the problem of getting a dealer to put an non-Kenda tire on it. I'll summarize his comments;

1. BRP has no policy or contract language with dealers that would prevent a dealer from installing a non-Kenda tire on a Spyder. Any dealers who say so are mistaken or are using that as an excuse for their own reluctance to deal with the problem (incidentally, my dealer said 'no problem'; they just wanted me to sign a liability waiver)
2. BRP has no stake in Kenda, or agreement with Kenda that requires BRP to use Kenda tires on their machines.
3. The reason BRP uses Kenda is that when BRP was designing the Spyder, they wrote up unique specs for the tires and Kenda was the only tire manufacturer willing to make a special-use tire in such small quantities.
4. BRP's specs for the Spyder tires is based on collaboration with Bosch (without whose technology and partnership the Spyder would never have left the drawing board), which designs and provides components for the VSS and ABS systems.
5. He was not aware of the unusual rear tire wear pattern on the Kenda rear tires, which shortens its useful life, but surmises it is because of the BRP specs, not because Kenda doesn't know how to build a quality tire.
6. He is going to pass this concern along to engineering to see if something can be done about it; it's not good PR to have owners upset over rear tire wear and lack of cooperation from dealers.

He also told me something else that I thought interesting. Before going to work for BRP (he was one of those testing and tweaking the pre-production bikes), he worked in a similar capacity at Yamaha. Back in the '80s Yamaha experimented with a reverse trike but couldn't figure out how to make it stable on the road; several of their test riders were seriously hurt trying them out. Yamaha dropped the project, not because of lack of interest in the concept but because the technology at the time wasn't available (ABS and VSS). It was the partnership with Bosch that enabled BRP to overcome those stability issues; the Spyder would not have been possible without Bosch's technology.

One of the members of this forum (who is also one of the leaders of the SRA-Sacramento chapter which hosted the rally), chimed into the conversation I was having with the BRP guy and said that his understanding of the Kenda tires is that for the 2013-2014 model years there was a batch of tires later discovered to be defective in some way (maybe the rubber compound formula), resulting in the unusually short life of the Kendas. He thought perhaps newer tires don't have that problem, as he has over 15k miles on his Kenda rear tire (I think he has a 2016 F3).

Anyway, just to let you know that BRP is going to look into these issues and try to come up with a solution. Meanwhile, they have no concerns about us using non-Kenda tires. Just be aware that some tires may be too sticky or not sticky enough for the VSS to work properly. If so, the owner bears the risk.

Let just say those that have been in the Spyder community a while know most of this if flat out untrue and wrong.

2 points in particular, dealers HAVE been notified not to sell other than Kenda tires. I have seen the notice in the BRP dealer notification system. 2nd, BRP was aware of the bad wear pattern and low wear of the Kenda rear tires back in 2013 when I had a lengthy discussion about it with a BRP rep at Spyderfest. They did nothing about it then, and have done nothing about is since despite repeated promises to look into the issue.

Lastly, bad tires are bad tires. They adversely effect stability, control and reliability of the machine they are on. No amount of VSS or ABS engineering can work around that. Better tires will improve all these items and have been proven so in repeated examples of real world use.

[UtahPete]

Sorry but I don't agree with 95 % of what you just said .........#5., if the dealer told you that ....they are pretty much clueless about KENDA tires or have no compunction about lying ............ Mike

This was the BRP rep, not the dealer, Mike.

[UtahPete]

Let just say those that have been in the Spyder community a while know most of this if flat out untrue and wrong. 2 points in particular, dealers HAVE been notified not to sell other than Kenda tires. I have seen the notice in the BRP dealer notification system. 2nd, BRP was aware of the bad wear pattern and low wear of the Kenda rear tires back in 2013 when I had a lengthy discussion about it with a BRP rep at Spyderfest. They did nothing about it then, and have done nothing about is since despite repeated promises to look into the issue. Lastly, bad tires are bad tires. They adversely effect stability, control and reliability of the machine they are on. No amount of VSS or ABS engineering can work around that. Better tires will improve all these items and have been proven so in repeated examples of real world use.

Hopefully, if we raise the concern enough times in enough venues, they will take action.

[jcthorne]

Hopefully, if we raise the concern enough times in enough venues, they will take action.

I heartedly agree. And appreciate your efforts to do so. My previous post sounds like I did not. Was just relaying that others including myself have also had conversations on this subject with BRP and gotten conflicting information.

[ChrisW]

I learned a couple of things at the NoCal rally this week. I spoke to the BRP rep about the Kenda rear tire wear issue and the problem of getting a dealer to put an non-Kenda tire on it. I'll summarize his comments;

1. BRP has no policy or contract language with dealers that would prevent a dealer from installing a non-Kenda tire on a Spyder. Any dealers who say so are mistaken or are using that as an excuse for their own reluctance to deal with the problem (incidentally, my dealer said 'no problem'; they just wanted me to sign a liability waiver)
2. BRP has no stake in Kenda, or agreement with Kenda that requires BRP to use Kenda tires on their machines.
3. The reason BRP uses Kenda is that when BRP was designing the Spyder, they wrote up unique specs for the tires and Kenda was the only tire manufacturer willing to make a special-use tire in such small quantities.
4. BRP's specs for the Spyder tires is based on collaboration with Bosch (without whose technology and partnership the Spyder would never have left the drawing board), which designs and provides components for the VSS and ABS systems.
5. He was not aware of the unusual rear tire wear pattern on the Kenda rear tires, which shortens its useful life, but surmises it is because of the BRP specs, not because Kenda doesn't know how to build a quality tire.
6. He is going to pass this concern along to engineering to see if something can be done about it; it's not good PR to have owners upset over rear tire wear and lack of cooperation from dealers.

He also told me something else that I thought interesting. Before going to work for BRP (he was one of those testing and tweaking the pre-production bikes), he worked in a similar capacity at Yamaha. Back in the '80s Yamaha experimented with a reverse trike but couldn't figure out how to make it stable on the road; several of their test riders were seriously hurt trying them out. Yamaha dropped the project, not because of lack of interest in the concept but because the technology at the time wasn't available (ABS and VSS). It was the partnership with Bosch that enabled BRP to overcome those stability issues; the Spyder would not have been possible without Bosch's technology.

One of the members of this forum (who is also one of the leaders of the SRA-Sacramento chapter which hosted the rally), chimed into the conversation I was having with the BRP guy and said that his understanding of the Kenda tires is that for the 2013-2014 model years there was a batch of tires later discovered to be defective in some way (maybe the rubber compound formula), resulting in the unusually short life of the Kendas. He thought perhaps newer tires don't have that problem, as he has over 15k miles on his Kenda rear tire (I think he has a 2016 F3).

Anyway, just to let you know that BRP is going to look into these issues and try to come up with a solution. Meanwhile, they have no concerns about us using non-Kenda tires. Just be aware that some tires may be too sticky or not sticky enough for the VSS to work properly. If so, the owner bears the risk.

Thanks for the info, we have a 2014 and I think we have the bad tires on the bike as the back is worn and the fronts are cupping. We need new tires very soon.

[kngfsh27]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

[UtahPete]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

How come you're still on the forum?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm so sick of these endless tire threads I'm going to take my tires off and run the Spyder on the rims. Damn people won't this insecurity ever end. Make

your own choice of tires. You can make a decision can't you. Not one person on here has a clue about tires including me. If you want more mileage buy car tires. If you want safety buy motorcycle tires. Don't let a few overly strong (and possibly wrong) opinions sway you. Nuff said!

Jack

Dear Jack , There are actually TWO Spyderlover Forum members who can dispute what you said about being CLUELESS , myself and Peter Aawen ( from Australia )............ .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

Don't kid yourself Jack, Spyders with std rims can't actually EVER wear real 'motorcycle tires' - & that's especially the case if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas!!!

Quite simply, the OE Kendas are NOT real 'motorcycle tires'; they aren't constructed like a motorcycle tire, they don't have motorcycle tire beads, they don't have motorcycle treads, and they are not designed to nor do they work like motorcycle tires!! Besides, you simply CANNOT safely fit ANY real 'motorcycle tire' onto any std Spyder rim anyway!! They might physically be able to be fitted, but the true 'motorcycle tire' bead profile is so significantly different to the Spyder rim which is designed to hold a car bead profile tire that taking your very first corner with a real motorcycle tire jammed onto the Spyder's car rim may well be your last!!

That 'for special motorcycle use only' or whatever the stamp on the side of the OE Kendas may be is simply a made up & effectively meaningless label pulled out of someone's behind with no real validity apart from helping to con the suckers into thinking the Kendas are something special (when any vaguely competent tire tech can see at a glance that they aren't!) and to warn car owners NOT to put the Kendas onto their car because that would be MASSIVELY UNSAFE....

So your favourite mantra really should be "if you want more mileage, buy 'real' car tires. If you want safety, buy 'real' car tires". And don't let a few posters who are clearly unaware of the reality about these tires (and insist upon telling us all that they are "so sick of these endless tire threads" but never miss an opportunity to read them & then post up in them telling us that once again..... repeatedly!!) tell you that the OE Kendas are anything but cheaply produced poor quality car tires, cos THAT IS all that the OE Spec Kendas are!!'

I'm just waiting for the first law-suit bringing BRP to task about trying to con people that the sub-par tires they insist upon fitting to our Spyders are anything but sub-par car tires.... it's not a matter of IF, it's more a matter of WHEN!! Hopefully, it won't bankrupt the company or force them to stop making Spyders, because apart from the crappy Kenda CAR tires that are clearly NOT true 'Motorcycle Tires', our Spyders are actually pretty fantastic machines!

[WA5VHU]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

Well that's a stooooopid reason then. Why didn't you just put some real tires on your Spyder and keep riding? Troll.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Don't kid yourself Jack, Spyders with std rims can't actually EVER wear real 'motorcycle tires' - & that's especially the case if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas!!!

Quite simply, the OE Kendas are NOT real 'motorcycle tires'; they aren't constructed like a motorcycle tire, they don't have motorcycle tire beads, they don't have motorcycle treads, and they are not designed to nor do they work like motorcycle tires!! Besides, you simply CANNOT safely fit ANY real 'motorcycle tire' onto any std Spyder rim anyway!! They might physically be able to be fitted, but the true 'motorcycle tire' bead profile is so significantly different to the Spyder rim which is designed to hold a car bead profile tire that taking your very first corner with a real motorcycle tire jammed onto the Spyder's car rim may well be your last!!

That 'for special motorcycle use only' or whatever the stamp on the side of the OE Kendas may be is simply a made up & effectively meaningless label pulled out of someone's behind with no real validity apart from helping to con the suckers into thinking the Kendas are something special (when any vaguely competent tire tech can see at a glance that they aren't!) and to warn car owners NOT to put the Kendas onto their car because that would be MASSIVELY UNSAFE....

So your favourite mantra really should be "if you want more mileage, buy 'real' car tires. If you want safety, buy 'real' car tires". And don't let a few posters who are clearly unaware of the reality about these tires (and insist upon telling us all that they are "so sick of these endless tire threads" but never miss an opportunity to read them & then post up in them telling us that once again..... repeatedly!!) tell you that the OE Kendas are anything but cheaply produced poor quality car tires, cos THAT IS all that the OE Spec Kendas are!!'

I'm just waiting for the first law-suit bringing BRP to task about trying to con people that the sub-par tires they insist upon fitting to our Spyders are anything but sub-par car tires.... it's not a matter of IF, it's more a matter of WHEN!! Hopefully, it won't bankrupt the company or force them to stop making Spyders, because apart from the crappy Kenda CAR tires that are clearly NOT true 'Motorcycle Tires', our Spyders are actually pretty fantastic machines!

Well said Peter , well said ..... Unfortunately there is an old adage " you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make them drink it ". Some people can grasp LOGIC, but others cannot, no matter how good your information is....... Mike

[Buckeye Bleau]

Bob, I think half of the posts are from people who want to join in but don't know what to say or what subject to use so they use tires! I always use the OEM or what the manufacturer recommends. As you know I

have a lot of toys and this philosophy as not led me astray yet. ( 100,000,000 + miles to prove it )

Jack

Well, Jack, I usually enjoy your additions to the forums, but on this you are out of line.

I do not know about others, but I read these posts for entertainment of sorts, mostly for fun and some for education. You seem to think that once YOU offer YOUR OPINION, then the conversation is over and complete. You know what, YOUR opinion is worth no more or less than anyone else's opinion. Further more, you state that half the people here...

Well, you know what, over half are offering what they see as advice from experience and another half are looking for wisdom from others like yourself. Just because you decide to contribute and I for one am glad that you do, does not mean that you have the only opinion of worth.

Finally, yes there is a mantra out there that states, "He who dies with the most toys wins!" and we all know that you have the most toys, we have been reminded many times. Well, I also know what my Pastor has stated many times, "I have never seen a U-Haul at a funeral!" So it is all for moot, but I have written in my Upon Death instructions, that someone will bring a U-Haul to my funeral.

Joe

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well, Jack, I usually enjoy your additions to the forums, but on this you are out of line.

I do not know about others, but I read these posts for entertainment of sorts, mostly for fun and some for education. You seem to think that once YOU offer YOUR OPINION, then the conversation is over and complete. You know what, YOUR opinion is worth no more or less than anyone else's opinion. Further more, you state that half the people here...

Well, you know what, over half are offering what they see as advice from experience and another half are looking for wisdom from others like yourself. Just because you decide to contribute and I for one am glad that you do, does not mean that you have the only opinion of worth.

Finally, yes there is a mantra out there that states, "He who dies with the most toys wins!" and we all know that you have the most toys, we have been reminded many times. Well, I also know what my Pastor has stated many times, "I have never seen a U-Haul at a funeral!" So it is all for moot, but I have written in my Upon Death instructions, that someone will bring a U-Haul to my funeral.

Joe

Also well said - Joe ......... Mike

[Highwayman2013]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

Couldn't change tires?