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  1. #1
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    Default Where did all my oil go?

    Yesterday we went for a short ride [little over a 100 miles] when we got back I checked the oil and no oil on the dipstick. Let it idle till the fans came on, shut off and checked oil after about a minute--nothing. Checked it half a dozen times in the nest couple minutes--still nothing. Looked over the motor for any oil residue, no leaks. Looked at the tail pipe for signs of oil burning, just slightly black. Looked at the two tubes under the back of the motor, no oil residue there. Thought I would see just how much oil was in the motor so drained it and got 5 quarts out, so it was full but nothing on the dipstick. Just wondering if anybody has any ideas as to what is sucking the oil out of the cavity where the dipstick is or the oil is not getting to the dipstick. This is a 2016 F3 limited with 12,000 miles. Dealer did the first service and I did it 2000 miles ago. Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Interesting. ...🤔

    It would seem you have the right amount of oil. Originally was 4.7 later changed to 5 Quarts. Now you may have the wrong dipstick or you are not seeing the oil level on the stick. This seems to be a problem and many have opted to use the paper method. Pull the stick lay it on a clean paper towel and see where the mark is. If this is not the case would like to hear back on the why.....
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    It would seem you have the right amount of oil. Originally was 4.7 later changed to 5 Quarts. Now you may have the wrong dipstick or you are not seeing the oil level on the stick. This seems to be a problem and many have opted to use the paper method. Pull the stick lay it on a clean paper towel and see where the mark is. If this is not the case would like to hear back on the why.....
    It also helps to file small notches in the side of the dipstick or drill very small holes through it.
    2015 F3 (wife's)
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  4. #4
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    Default Nearly impossible to read

    I have the same bike and when I got it broke in I opened up the throttle for the first time. Shortly I smelled oil burning and stopped to discover oil running down my dip stick. Long story short, I read the dip stick several times and finally realized the oil level was ABOVE the reading area and in the metal part. As I revved my bike in the garage I could see oil squirting from under the dip stick cover. I sucked out 3/4 of a quart of oil and read the stick close to a dozen times before I could see it was reading 2/3 in the range area. Bottom line, until I took a high intensity LED light I just couldn't see it. Poor choice of plastic color for reading same colored oil.
    So I'm trying to figure out how my brand new bike got delivered with too much oil?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gramp View Post
    Yesterday we went for a short ride [little over a 100 miles] when we got back I checked the oil and no oil on the dipstick. Let it idle till the fans came on, shut off and checked oil after about a minute--nothing. Checked it half a dozen times in the nest couple minutes--still nothing. Looked over the motor for any oil residue, no leaks. Looked at the tail pipe for signs of oil burning, just slightly black. Looked at the two tubes under the back of the motor, no oil residue there. Thought I would see just how much oil was in the motor so drained it and got 5 quarts out, so it was full but nothing on the dipstick. Just wondering if anybody has any ideas as to what is sucking the oil out of the cavity where the dipstick is or the oil is not getting to the dipstick. This is a 2016 F3 limited with 12,000 miles. Dealer did the first service and I did it 2000 miles ago. Any ideas?

  5. #5
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Hey Gramps, you hafta realise that these are Dry-Sump motors and that you MUST follow the correct 'oil check directions' from your glovebox manual (or the one in the frunk)!

    If you haven't warmed the engine properly, then stopped ryding & waited out the appropriate idle down period, there may well be NO OIL in the remote reservoir, which is where the dipstick goes to let you check the level!! Check the oil level cold, or check the oil immediately on stopping ryding without waiting the idle down period & you are extremely likely to end up with dangerously incorrect oil levels!

    Others have posted & discussed at length the correct oil-check procedures, including the idle down times etc, so I won't try to recall them & post up again here (my memory might be just a bit pain-meds addled atm! ) But I'm sure someone will provide a link eventually!
    2013 RT Ltd Pearl White

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  6. #6
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    Follow the instructions...

    As far as reading the dipstick: lay it against a clean piece of paper towel, and it'll be easy to see where the oil level on it is...
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    If you haven't warmed the engine properly, then stopped ryding & waited out the appropriate idle down period, there may well be NO OIL in the remote reservoir, which is where the dipstick goes to let you check the level!!
    OK, I understand that.
    But I'm a bit confused too.

    Mine is still on the original oil too; less than 1000 miles.
    And when I checked the level cold, it was WAY above the full mark.
    This appears to be exactly the OPPOSITE of what the expected result should be of checking it cold.

    This makes me a bit nervous. I will be checking further......literally......and visiting a dealer soon.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Default Dipstick oil level

    Quote Originally Posted by Gramp View Post
    Yesterday we went for a short ride [little over a 100 miles] when we got back I checked the oil and no oil on the dipstick. Let it idle till the fans came on, shut off and checked oil after about a minute--nothing. Checked it half a dozen times in the nest couple minutes--still nothing. Looked over the motor for any oil residue, no leaks. Looked at the tail pipe for signs of oil burning, just slightly black. Looked at the two tubes under the back of the motor, no oil residue there. Thought I would see just how much oil was in the motor so drained it and got 5 quarts out, so it was full but nothing on the dipstick. Just wondering if anybody has any ideas as to what is sucking the oil out of the cavity where the dipstick is or the oil is not getting to the dipstick. This is a 2016 F3 limited with 12,000 miles. Dealer did the first service and I did it 2000 miles ago. Any ideas?
    I don't know why but my 2015 F3's SE6 requires a full 6 quarts of oil to bring the oil to the upper limit on the dipstick. 5 quarts of oil will not touch the dipstick--it's the least of my problems but I understand your concern.
    2015 F3's , two 12 volt power outlets Orange & Black

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    OK, I understand that.
    But I'm a bit confused too.
    A bit more confused than I originally thought it seems.

    I was looking at the wrong "marks" on the dipstick.

    I just checked it the "right way" and it came up to "full".
    So it appears that if it is near the "add" mark when cold it can't be too far off.

  10. #10
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    Default Update...sort of

    Thanks for all the responsesI rode 15 miles and checked the oil again. It was fine. With the 5 quarts I put back in the oil is right at the bottom of the "max" lettering on the stick. I will have to keep an eye on this to see if it happens again. I have not run into this in the year and a half we have had the spyder. I get a lot of good info from this site and I appreciate the help. I just got a Perelli rear tire but have not installed as of yet, hope it lasts longer than the Kenda has. Thanks again.

  11. #11
    Active Member Tatonka's Avatar
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    Default Dipstick

    Anyone know of a site to order a new dipstick? Seems whoever had mine off last put it back in and stripped the Threads so it will not go in correctly.....

  12. #12
    Active Member Tatonka's Avatar
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    Default

    As a follow up....contacted closest dealer ....Brewers Cycles......who ordered one.....will get it in a few days.

  13. #13
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    Default Dry Sump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Hey Gramps, you hafta realise that these are Dry-Sump motors and that you MUST follow the correct 'oil check directions' from your glovebox manual (or the one in the frunk)!

    If you haven't warmed the engine properly, then stopped ryding & waited out the appropriate idle down period, there may well be NO OIL in the remote reservoir, which is where the dipstick goes to let you check the level!! Check the oil level cold, or check the oil immediately on stopping ryding without waiting the idle down period & you are extremely likely to end up with dangerously incorrect oil levels!

    Others have posted & discussed at length the correct oil-check procedures, including the idle down times etc, so I won't try to recall them & post up again here (my memory might be just a bit pain-meds addled atm! ) But I'm sure someone will provide a link eventually!
    The 998 motor is dry-sump. The ACE-1330 is not. It just has a very difficult-to-read dipstick.
    Terry
    2017 F3-S Daytona , Yellow and black

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTheSpyderRyder View Post
    The 998 motor is dry-sump. The ACE-1330 is not. It just has a very difficult-to-read dipstick.
    Terry
    Mighty funny that several similar discussions have occurred on here and you are the ONLY one who has mentioned that.

    I think your are absolutely WRONG.

  15. #15
    Very Active Member Dudley's Avatar
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    How many of you check the oil in your car or truck? The F3 engine is not one to use oil. Over the years on FB I have read so many posts of people checking their oil after they changed it. Did you put the right amount? Then why do you check it? What do you expect to find? Seems like a lot of folks are so leery of the Spyder, they are afraid to ride it. Enjoy it, folks. I have ridden 150,000 combined on 4 Spyders. The first one, a 2008 GS SE5, we took a 13,624 mile trip around the country. Replaced the rear tire and never changed the oil until we got back. Used 2 quarts replacement. I am not trying to make fun of anybody here, just trying to encourage you all to ride it and enjoy it. The Spyder is not bullet proof, but it is a very competent machine.
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    Dec 12th, 2017 drove a 2017 F3L home. What an awesome machine!

    Never had any breakdown stranded issues.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member hypurone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTheSpyderRyder View Post
    The 998 motor is dry-sump. The ACE-1330 is not. It just has a very difficult-to-read dipstick.
    Terry
    From a BRP spec sheet:
    Rotax 1330 ACESpyder Roadster1,330 cc, 4-stroke, 3 cylinder, 12-valve,electronic fuel injection and electronicthrottle control, DOHC, EFI, hydraulic valveadjustment, intelligent throttle control (iTC)84.0 mm & 80.0 mm84.5 kW at 7,250 rpm130 Nm at 5,000 rpmLiquid cooledDry sump lubricationTransmission options:6-speed manual with reverse (SM6)6-speed semi-automatic with reverse (SE6)

    You can find it for yourself on page 8 of this PDF:
    https://www.rotax.com/files/project/...M-2015-WEB.pdf

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
    How many of you check the oil in your car or truck? The F3 engine is not one to use oil. Over the years on FB I have read so many posts of people checking their oil after they changed it. Did you put the right amount? Then why do you check it? What do you expect to find? Seems like a lot of folks are so leery of the Spyder, they are afraid to ride it. Enjoy it, folks. I have ridden 150,000 combined on 4 Spyders. The first one, a 2008 GS SE5, we took a 13,624 mile trip around the country. Replaced the rear tire and never changed the oil until we got back. Used 2 quarts replacement. I am not trying to make fun of anybody here, just trying to encourage you all to ride it and enjoy it. The Spyder is not bullet proof, but it is a very competent machine.
    Interesting that I come across this thread today. I was planning to start a new thread with my question, but this thread seems to be addressing it already. I had just been wondering how often most of you check your oil level? That's because the "DO's and DON'Ts listed on this site include a statement that BRP recommends checking the oil level every 300 miles. Does anyone here actually do that?

    In my case, I've got about 4500 miles on the F3T since the original 3000 mile checkup (which included an oil change and wasn't done until the 4500 mile mark). I haven't checked the oil since and have had no problems (knock wood). My next service isn't due for about another 3500 miles. Am I being naïve by just "riding it and enjoying it"?

    Thanks!
    Bert


  18. #18
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Default We check the oil on the 1330 ACE about once a month or every 2000 miles

    On the smaller Twin engine (2011 RT we had) we would check it about every 500 miles, always after rolling in with the engine hot.

    With the 1330 triples, I know that I put 5 qts in on the last oil change, plus about 8 oz after I run it (SE6 models), and then I am good to check about once a month again after we come in from a ride with the engine hot. Remember to let the engine idle for 5-10 minutes while you get rid of the gear, and get a cold one, and by then the fans have cycled on twice.. the scavenger pumps have the oil all "leveled out".. and you can get your clean paper towel to check an accurate oil level.

    Easy Peasy.
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  19. #19
    Very Active Member AY4B's Avatar
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    5 quarts is enough to get it to the Minimum mark. Between the minimum and the Maximum mark is another half a quart or 17 ozs. , BUT it is recommended to just put in another third quart to not risk over filling it.
    2017 F3 Limited
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  20. #20
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Default New recommendations since 16 call for 5 qts for the F3 SE6

    Quote Originally Posted by AY4B View Post
    5 quarts is enough to get it to the Minimum mark. Between the minimum and the Maximum mark is another half a quart or 17 ozs. , BUT it is recommended to just put in another third quart to not risk over filling it.
    I am not sure of the date for the new amounts recommended, but the regular oil change with filter only calls for 5 qts for the SE6. Page 100 in the 2016 F3 manual



    Some like it higher, and it assumes you got All of the old oil out - there is always a few ounces left in nooks and crannies like the recess in the filter case etc. I get a reading up to the M in Max on the stick when following BRPs recs. YMMV DSCN2492.jpg

    You can get a digital copy of the manual for your machine at http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/I...7-384ffc8d07ba but I think all the 1330 ACEs are the same.
    DSCN2585.jpg When I change the HCM filter (due at 28,000 mi) I'll add the extra 7 oz. (5.2 Qt)
    Last edited by AeroPilot; 07-01-2018 at 07:23 PM. Reason: when changing the HCM filter
    07 Shadows, Aero, Spirit gone but not forgotten
    03 Harley Sportster, 07 RK moved on
    11 RT- 76,000 mi, 15 RT-S- 44,000 mi, traded for current 15 base RT and 16 F3T
    2015 RT , OEM Black Gloss

  21. #21
    Very Active Member AY4B's Avatar
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    First, to avoid any confusion, here is the official, correct information:

    • There is currently - as on June 23rd 2015 - only 1 1330 ACE engine configuration available. 2014/15 RT and 2015 F3 all have the same engine.
    • The required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 4.7L or 5.0Qt.
    • An oil quantity correction was made after production to avoid adding too much oil after an oil change and have to siphon it out rather than add oil to correct the level. During an oil change the amount of oil removed and needed to be added is never exactly the same, this is why a recommended amount to be added initially is given and then the procedure to verify the final level is used. A new dipstick is not necessary since the oil level in the oil tank doesn’t change, only the method of adding the initial amount before final level verification. In other words, it's easier to add more oil if you underfill than to remove excess oil if you overfill.
    • Service bulletin 2014-7 “Shop Manual Modifications” was published August 2014 indicating changes to the PDF (web) version which included Engine Oil Level Verification and Engine Oil and Oil Filter Change.
    • It is normal for a small engine, which includes a wet clutch and gearbox sharing the same oil, to shear down 20-30% within 1000-1500 miles but this shear flattens out and stabilizes for the remaining normal use interval. The 1330 ACE engine has been extensively tested to guarantee that 9300 miles is a safe oil change interval.


    http://www.lamonstergarage.com/news/...-change-video/
    2017 F3 Limited
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  22. #22
    Very Active Member AY4B's Avatar
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    The Owners manual is not well written. It is confusing. I have changed my oil once. I added only 5 quarts but did not follow up with the rest of what it says. The next day I went on a ryde and when I got to the meeting spot, My Spyder was acting bad. Would not shift into first gear after gassing up. I finally hard shifted and I checked the oil. It was at the min mark!! I went ahead and went on the ride when I got home started a thread like this one. I added enough to get close to full but just under the last mark. I agree the oil level is hard to see on that dipstick. The shop towel trick is good advice.

    In other words add 5 quarts. Then run it a while till it is at operating temp then proceed to the oil verification process, to keep from over filling. Some here prefer to get it right on full while others like Lamont run it somewhere in the middle.
    Last edited by AY4B; 07-01-2018 at 08:17 PM.
    2017 F3 Limited
    2017 F3 Limited , Lamonster Black Dymond brake pedal with brake rod at #5 Pure Magnesium Metallic

  23. #23
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Default Thanks AY4B for the post and dates on the 1330 oil capacity

    I didn't mean to step on anyones toes, but since I do all of our oil changes after the first dealer service, I like that I can buy a gallon jug plus one quart of oil, (plus a filter, and have a prescribed dose to get me changed and in good running order. I am probably on the tenth change and everyone likes to see their oil at their comfortable level. I think if you check your oil after a good ride, and after the idling period and your machine tells you all is fine, so are you. Ryde More, Worry Less.. Thanks again Ay4B!

    DSCN2586.jpg I just ran to the loafnjug to fillerup. I'll get a better check when she gets home from her 40 mile commute tomorrow.
    Last edited by AeroPilot; 07-01-2018 at 08:24 PM. Reason: added photo from wifes bike after change today
    07 Shadows, Aero, Spirit gone but not forgotten
    03 Harley Sportster, 07 RK moved on
    11 RT- 76,000 mi, 15 RT-S- 44,000 mi, traded for current 15 base RT and 16 F3T
    2015 RT , OEM Black Gloss

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AY4B View Post
    ... The 1330 ACE engine has been extensively tested to guarantee that 9300 miles is a safe oil change interval.
    Just to clear - According to this info, if you had your first service at 3000 miles, your next oil change isn't needed until the odometer reads 12,300, right?

    Thanks.
    Bert


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    Quote Originally Posted by newbert View Post
    Just to clear - According to this info, if you had your first service at 3000 miles, your next oil change isn't needed until the odometer reads 12,300, right?

    Thanks.
    Correct or 1 year whichever comes first.

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