Belt Tensioner noise...

[Firefly]

UPDATED!
The vendor of the tensioner felt this post was a negative review of his product. That is not the case, nor was it meant to be!
This was about a noise issue I am troubleshooting and what I felt the problem was.
After removing the tensioner the noise is still there and appears to be belt related and not about the tensioner.
Hopefully this clears things up and everyone is happy.

I'm now running the BRP with Doc upgrades and am finding the noise to be intolerable. When I'm wearing plugs or ear buds it's not so bad, bit without them it is horrible. I've had other bikers wonder what in the world all that noise is.

I'm wondering if a metal roller instead of plastic/nylon would make less noise on the belt?

Anyone have any input? Is the Smooth Spyder one quieter???

[Chupaca]

not sure that material used on the roller would make a big difference as would the bearings and mounting system. spring tension would have bearing on noise as well. Might be the combination of the two. Seems most are happy with the one Doc supplies might have to switch to his cause many of the BRP ones are failing...

[Roadster Renovations]

I'm now running the BRP with Doc upgrades and am finding the noise to be intolerable. When I'm wearing plugs or ear buds it's not so bad, bit without them it is horrible. I've had other bikers wonder what in the world all that noise is.

I'm wondering if a metal roller instead of plastic/nylon would make less noise on the belt?

Anyone have any input? Is the Smooth Spyder one quieter???

If you are running a '15 RT there should be no noise. Sounds like the pulley is starting to fail. I would not ryde it another mile without tying it up out of the way. We make a upgrade that will allow you to go forward with what you already have. That would be a kit #1 - RT.
Also, as you already know, since you are running this on a RT if it fails, any damage will be out of pocket.

http://dochumphreys.wixsite.com/road...amper-products

[cptjam]

Dan,
yank it off of there. I've seen 3 failures in the last month. Starts with a noise, then falls apart, then ruins the belt. Terrible design. Leave it off until there is one with a bearing in it. That bushing is useless. Joe

[Mikind7]

Dan,
yank it off of there. I've seen 3 failures in the last month. Starts with a noise, then falls apart, then ruins the belt. Terrible design. Leave it off until there is one with a bearing in it. That bushing is useless. Joe

To which one are you referring? BRPs?

[Rattlebars]

Make sure that the idler roller is perfectly straight to the belt. Even a little off and it will whine. Don't know what noise you speak of because you didn't describe it, but a slight misalignment will cause noise.

[cptjam]

To which one are you referring? BRPs?

yes, the BRP belt tensioner. Junk.

[jcthorne]

yes, the BRP belt tensioner. Junk.

Misunderstanding I think. He has your pulley on a BRP bracket. He did your upgrade package and now has noise. No idea why.

[Buckskin]

Doc, Fireflys post is on the F3 thread, which suggests that is his model. He also states that he has BRP with Doc upgrades which tells me that he might already have your model that lets you mate the two for a better overall idler pulley. I'm running a BRP idler and over the weekend when I let off the throttle I heard a whistling sound. Don't know if that is what is the sound everyone might hear before the idler shells itself?
Buckskin

If you are running a '15 RT there should be no noise. Sounds like the pulley is starting to fail. I would not ryde it another mile without tying it up out of the way. We make a upgrade that will allow you to go forward with what you already have. That would be a kit #1 - RT.
Also, as you already know, since you are running this on a RT if it fails, any damage will be out of pocket.

http://dochumphreys.wixsite.com/road...amper-products

[Roadster Renovations]

If you are running our roller, and as they said it is out of alignment, it will try to walk off the belt. At this point I would pull it and send the entire arm and pulley into us if it is our upgrade. This is the first issue on a pulley (if that is what it is).
I have a RT kit here now that was returned to us that was not installed correctly and actually wallowed out the hole in the arm it moved back and forth so bad. Alignment is critical in both models.

[Buckskin]

Doc, whether your full idler kit or the BRP and adapted to your roller. How does one check for proper alignment? I assume the two bolt bracket has some slop in it so how does one know if the pulley is aligned properly and then tightened down. I can't recall but is Loctite used on bolts/what torque value?
Buckskin

If you are running our roller, and as they said it is out of alignment, it will try to walk off the belt. At this point I would pull it and send the entire arm and pulley into us if it is our upgrade. This is the first issue on a pulley (if that is what it is).
I have a RT kit here now that was returned to us that was not installed correctly and actually wallowed out the hole in the arm it moved back and forth so bad. Alignment is critical in both models.

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc, whether your full idler kit or the BRP and adapted to your roller. How does one check for proper alignment? I assume the two bolt bracket has some slop in it so how does one know if the pulley is aligned properly and then tightened down. I can't recall but is Loctite used on bolts/what torque value?
Buckskin

I use my finger to feel the edge of the black bracket and the belt. I can tell if one end has a larger gap. I then adjust accordingly to get it as straight as possible. I also will center the pulley at the same time. I then snug it down and ryde a short distance to make sure it is tracking correctly before putting the tupperwear back on. You have to make all measurements and adjustments with the byke stopped from going forward. The alignment will be off anytime you have backed up.
You can also use a short block of wood that is cut exactly at 90 degrees. Place the block against the roller and then move it over to the edge of the belt. If the pulley is in alignment the wood will be even with the belt.

BRP's black bracket has a little play in it. Not much since it was for the F3. Since our adapter kit (RTBK) and the bracket for the kit #3 cover so many different years, we made the holes slotted so that they could be easily adjusted for any year. As long as the pulley is in alignment with the belt correctly, it will last beyond 20k. We have noted several with over 10k with no play, vibration or whine at all.

I will say this; if anyone has any noise of vibration show up they need to check the unit and if there is any issue contact us. The pulley is warranted for 2 years from date of purchase.

[bmccaffrey]

MORE BRP JUNK

[Buckskin]

I was going to take you up on the kit that would use BRP's adaptor with your pulley and arm, but I'm going to ask the question that a lot might be thinking. Would I be better served to go ahead and getting the full blown kit from you? I already took it it the shorts on the BRP unit and don't need to add to that misery.
I got the picture on the alignment thing. How about Loctite? Any torque value to use? Seems like there is a lot of potential for vibration and that is what makes things loosen up. As to the warranty, that for both kits, or the full kit of yours?
Thanks
Buckskin

I use my finger to feel the edge of the black bracket and the belt. I can tell if one end has a larger gap. I then adjust accordingly to get it as straight as possible. I also will center the pulley at the same time. I then snug it down and ryde a short distance to make sure it is tracking correctly before putting the tupperwear back on. You have to make all measurements and adjustments with the byke stopped from going forward. The alignment will be off anytime you have backed up.
You can also use a short block of wood that is cut exactly at 90 degrees. Place the block against the roller and then move it over to the edge of the belt. If the pulley is in alignment the wood will be even with the belt.

BRP's black bracket has a little play in it. Not much since it was for the F3. Since our adapter kit (RTBK) and the bracket for the kit #3 cover so many different years, we made the holes slotted so that they could be easily adjusted for any year. As long as the pulley is in alignment with the belt correctly, it will last beyond 20k. We have noted several with over 10k with no play, vibration or whine at all.

I will say this; if anyone has any noise of vibration show up they need to check the unit and if there is any issue contact us. The pulley is warranted for 2 years from date of purchase.

[Centurion]

Maybe, I am missing something here folks but I don't have a belt tensioner on either of my Spyders (2014 RT and 2016 F3). What problem are they intended to solve?

[Roadster Renovations]

I was going to take you up on the kit that would use BRP's adaptor with your pulley and arm, but I'm going to ask the question that a lot might be thinking. Would I be better served to go ahead and getting the full blown kit from you? I already took it it the shorts on the BRP unit and don't need to add to that misery.
I got the picture on the alignment thing. How about Loctite? Any torque value to use? Seems like there is a lot of potential for vibration and that is what makes things loosen up. As to the warranty, that for both kits, or the full kit of yours?
Thanks
Buckskin

We designed all of the kits to integrate into the other kits. That way you do not have to take a loss on any part. If you have the BRP unit for the F3, our kit #1 - F3 will replace the arm and pulley. It will come with the pivot shim, loctite, the sealing washer and bolt, and a locking nut. You will reuse your black bracket and spring.
If you have our RTBK adaptor and the BRP unit to run on the RT, then you need the kit #1 - RT and will get all the above mentioned items.
Those two are the most economical ways to upgrade.
If you don't have the BRP kit on your F3 and want ours, you would need a kit #2 - F3. That will include the complete kit including longer replacement bolts for the frame and loctite.
If you have the RTBK and have not purchased anything else, you would need a kit #2 -RT. Same as above.
If you have an RT, and nothing else, a kit # 3 is what you would need. This comes with all of the above plus a bridge spacer that fits into the dished section of the down tube where it bolts to the frame. We also include a reusable stud with a 5mm socket head on it to keep the down tube in position while you are switching out the bolts and adding the kit.
All kits come with red loctite to make sure that the bolts do not back off. All nuts are torsional locking type that are not nylock.
We warranty the pulley for 2 years provided it has been installed correctly. As far as the rest of the kit, under normal conditions, there is nothing else to wear out. We have had a few that have broken springs due to alignment issues. As long as the pulley is in correct alignment that has not occurred.
Obviously, if a situation occurs where there may be an unusual noise or vibration, the unit should be immediately checked. If there is an issue we should be immediately contacted before the byke is ridden. Since we have not had a pulley fail, I can't tell you what to listen for, but noise and/or vibration would be a good indicator.

[SpyderAnn01]

Maybe, I am missing something here folks but I don't have a belt tensioner on either of my Spyders (2014 RT and 2016 F3). What problem are they intended to solve?

On your 14 RT at speeds around 70 mph you probably notice a vibration that goes away if you speed up or slow down. The F3 has the same harmonic vibration and BRP made s tensioner for the F3 to take care of the vibration. The BRP units have been failing at a rapid pace. The vibration drives some folks crazy

[Centurion]

On your 14 RT at speeds around 70 mph you probably notice a vibration that goes away if you speed up or slow down. The F3 has the same harmonic vibration and BRP made s tensioner for the F3 to take care of the vibration. The BRP units have been failing at a rapid pace. The vibration drives some folks crazy

Ann,
Thanks for the explanation! I do have a vibration like you describe on both bikes but I don't really mind it since it only occurs at a very specific point and in a narrow speed band. Certainly not a safety issue, but if it bothers someone that bad then I can understand them installing a tensioner and I am sure that Doc's are well made.

[capt.jim]

I'm now running the BRP with Doc upgrades and am finding the noise to be intolerable. When I'm wearing plugs or ear buds it's not so bad, bit without them it is horrible. I've had other bikers wonder what in the world all that noise is.

I'm wondering if a metal roller instead of plastic/nylon would make less noise on the belt?

Anyone have any input? Is the Smooth Spyder one quieter???

Many of the ribbed belts would whine or whistle with my composite idlers.
When the rubber belt dries out some and gets harder after a few years it would tend to get even louder.
One of my customers recommended this tip to me, and I have recommended it to a few of my customers with excessive noise.
I haven't tried it personally as mine didn't have an issue, but I sent out a few idlers with this setup and the feedback I received was that it greatly reduced or eliminated the noise altogether.
Find 8 O-rings, size 2" OD x 1-5/8" ID x 7/32 wall thickness and install them on the 2" idler. I got these from Ace Hardware.
The original tipster said he got almost 20,000 miles from a set, which seems hard to believe looking at them.
Again, I don't have first hand knowledge, but cheap and easy to try.35760 o-ring.jpgMounted O-Rings.jpg
I think they were about 80 cents each.
Sorry they uploaded crooked, maybe someone can upright them.

[Roadster Renovations]

I'm now running the BRP with Doc upgrades and am finding the noise to be intolerable. When I'm wearing plugs or ear buds it's not so bad, bit without them it is horrible. I've had other bikers wonder what in the world all that noise is.

I'm wondering if a metal roller instead of plastic/nylon would make less noise on the belt?

Anyone have any input? Is the Smooth Spyder one quieter???

Refund issued. Will examine product once we receive it back.....

[irvin48]

i found you can also self align docs roller by leaving the arm
a little loose, jacking up the back wheel off the ground and spinnig
it forward a while. then tighten the arm down in that position . easy peasy.

sounds good in theory anyway.--irv

[Peteoz]

On your 14 RT at speeds around 70 mph you probably notice a vibration that goes away if you speed up or slow down. The F3 has the same harmonic vibration and BRP made s tensioner for the F3 to take care of the vibration. The BRP units have been failing at a rapid pace. The vibration drives some folks crazy

Hi Ann, when you say the BRP units are failing at a rapid pace, that is news to me. Have I missed some threads, or are you just seeing a lot in the workshop? I am not for one second questioning your statement, it's just that I haven't seen any reports of failures.......and......I have a BRP tensioner on my F3-L, and I AM hearing more whining than in the past, so I'll check the alignment now, and probably order one of Docs replacements.

Pete

[Firefly]

Refund issued. Will examine product once we receive it back.....

Hey Doc... not sure why you refunded me.. that isn't what I'm looking for.
We emailed earlier today.
I'll remove it and ship it out later this week for your inspection.

TThanks.

[Firefly]

I guess I should have been more specific, but I figured since I was posting in the F3 thread that would indicate what I own.

This is is on a 2015 F3.
It is the BRP tensioner kit WITH the Doc upgrade.

Foong to send it to Doc for inspection.

[wvedec]

I was going to take you up on the kit that would use BRP's adaptor with your pulley and arm, but I'm going to ask the question that a lot might be thinking. Would I be better served to go ahead and getting the full blown kit from you? I already took it it the shorts on the BRP unit and don't need to add to that misery.
I got the picture on the alignment thing. How about Loctite? Any torque value to use? Seems like there is a lot of potential for vibration and that is what makes things loosen up. As to the warranty, that for both kits, or the full kit of yours?
Thanks
Buckskin

I got my 2016 F3-T with a BRP tensioner installed. I decided to go with Doc's setup. I had the same quandary about whether to reuse the BRP bracket or go with the complete assembly from Doc. For me, it was not worth the difference in cost ($25) or hassle to reuse the BRP bracket. I just bought the entire assembly (Kit #2). I installed it today and fiddled with the alignment for while, gauging if it was centered by feeling each side with my fingers. Flipping the arm up and letting the wheel fall on the belt helped it self-center, I think. The slotted bracket on Doc's setup also allows for very fine adjustments to be made. I went for a test ride and then went underneath for a look. The blue roller was still perfectly centered. I did not notice any noise, but I never exceeded about 45 mph.

By the way, the BRP tensioner, with about 830 miles on it, had significant play in the roller, and it looked like the belt wandered and ground away part of the idler arm. I am so glad that I swapped out the BRP tensioner and now have Doc's installed. I think the BRP tensioner was going to give me trouble if the future.

Thanks, Doc!!!