OK THIS IS NOT POLITICAL YET

[wyliec]

https://lawofselfdefense.com/jury_in...e-of-a-person/


Remember, if it's on the internet, it must be true.

[cuznjohn]

in other words, any lawyer can take what that statement say, and turn it around against you also. so in the end, it will cost you thousands of dollars, and tons of time to hopefully get out of the charges. and at that time, the cops will show up at your house, take all your refiles and hand guns, take your permit, and make sure that for the rest of your life, you will never be able to ever get another gun, or handle one or be around one. that is how i read it

[Fatcycledaddy]

There's an old saying that if you're a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. I'm not questioning your right to open carry, just wondering why you think it's a good idea. Because I think those who carry are more likely to see violence with a gun as the 'best' solution to interpersonal conflict.

I don't own a gun, although I live in one of the most gun-happy parts of the country (Utah). If I ever had any delusions about violence solving problems or shooting people as a manly thing to do, I got over that pretty quick after being in a combat zone.

But that's me and I understand that others feel differently. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the issue.

Sorry, never said I open carry, in my opinion that is an advertisement for trouble. Concealed carry is what I do. I don't attract attention to myself that way.

[Bob Denman]

Train Wreck.jpg

[Saluda]

Train Wreck.jpg

Isn't that a normal course of events ?

[d.o.spyder-rts]

There's an old saying that if you're a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. I'm not questioning your right to open carry, just wondering why you think it's a good idea. Because I think those who carry are more likely to see violence with a gun as the 'best' solution to interpersonal conflict.

I don't own a gun, although I live in one of the most gun-happy parts of the country (Utah). If I ever had any delusions about violence solving problems or shooting people as a manly thing to do, I got over that pretty quick after being in a combat zone.

But that's me and I understand that others feel differently. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the issue.

Open or concealed carry, I think he explained why he carries very well. Dale

[mowin]

[QUOTE= shooting people as a manly thing to do...

I don't think anyone on here mentioned or said shooting someone is a manly thing to do...

I carry. It's my right to be able to protect myself and my family. That said, I'm no hero.. if trouble starts, I'm looking for a way to get me and my family out of there. IF, and only if, there's no way to exit stage left, then and only then will I engage to protect myself.

[Fatcycledaddy]

I am not one of those people who think that if you choose not to arm yourself that you are wrong or crazy. It is a preference that need to fit your needs, want, and lifestyle. Just like riding a Spyder or motorcycle is not for everyone.

I am unaware of the training that is requires in other states to get your Concealed Pistol License, but the one I went through in MI stressed over and over that the pistol or weapon is the LAST resort. They stressed that even if it is justified when you use it, your life will change forever.
You will be arrested, you more than likely will be sued, it will cost you thousands of dollars, and in a lot of cases even your marriage, but you might still be alive.

It makes you start thinking things through thoroughly before you even a get your CPL from the state and start to carry.

Things like, if someone breaks into my home, is he attempting to cover or conceal his face or not. If there is no attempt to conceal or hide his face, he is more than likely not planning on leaving any witnesses. This means I will do everything in my power to take him out. If he is wearing a mask or concealing his face, I will try to comply with his demands until my or my family's lives become threatened, because things can be replaced, lives cannot.

When you go into a building you look for a second means of exiting because the way you came in may be the very spot the danger may come in at. You never plan on having to go through the danger to get away from it.

When walking down a street or from a place of business into a dark parking lot, you look for the areas that trouble could come from and avoid those if you can.

They taught us to "be aware and yet be prepared", how to better assess situations, how to not be naive and think because we now carry a weapon we are a super hero looking for trouble to stop.

So the comment about being a hammer looking for a nail is not accurate. A hammer is just one more tool that is in my tool box, it us used for pulling nails as well as driving them. I also use it to tap on walls to find studs, or reshape a bent piece of metal. With a hammer you must be familiar of what it can be used for before you fully understand it, you have to practice with it so that you can hit what you are swinging at, and do not use it in situations where a hammer is not required, you don't even get it out of the tool box or let anyone know you have it.

The same is true with your weapon. Just because you have it does NOT mean it fits every occasion or job, you must know what it can and is used for, then you must practice with it until you are proficient with it. Also you DO NOT use it when it is not required, you do not pull or show your weapon, and it is not important that anyone knows you have it until it is needed.

[cuznjohn]

i have to agree. if you get a carry permit, i feel you should go for courses on using the gun. i am guilty of having the gun and never going to the range. there was one range i used to go to where the range officers were off duty police officers and retired military people. so they were pretty strict with their rules and watched everything you did. but that range closed years ago. i don't think open carry is a good idea. lets face it, if some wise guy thinks you look like a easy way to get a gun off of, you might be a easy mark to try and take your gun. anyone that has a carry permit should have a course every year to see if you are still able to handle the gun, and still know the right and wrong things to do.

[Bob Denman]

Unless it's required by law to do otherwise: carrying concealed is your best option.
If everyone know that you're armed: you just became the first target!

[UtahPete]

[QUOTE=mowin;1269482][QUOTE= shooting people as a manly thing to do... I don't think anyone on here mentioned or said shooting someone is a manly thing to do...

[/QUOTE]

I said that. When I first went into the Navy it was my first real contact with people who regarded carrying and using guns as normal. There were the rural guys who grew up with guns and had a healthy attitude toward them. And then there were the inner city guys who scared the hell out of me with their macho talk about blowing people away.

My only experience with guns prior to that was going out with the pastor's son and his friend with their dad's shotguns (in Connecticut) 'hunting'; we walked around in the woods with them blasting away at anything that moved and laughing crazily at the explosion of fur and feathers. I began to associate gun ownership in America (I'm a british import) with macho swagger and the notion of becoming a man. Hand guns in particular have only one purpose it seems to me; to shoot people with.

That's the context in which I made that remark; as a young person in the military, trying to figure out the world around me and what it means to be a man.

[Bob Denman]

I'm sorry to hear that you met the wrong people...
and perterbed that you've decided to paint ALL of us, with the same broad brush!

[UtahPete]

I'm sorry to hear that you met the wrong people...
and perterned that you've decided tp paint ALL of us, with the same broad brush!

I'm sorry you think I am doing that. I'm not at all. I'm providing another viewpoint (mine alone) on the guns-in-the-hands-of-civilians discussion. It's so commonplace in the US that I don't think you realize how extraordinary our gun culture is to the rest of the civilized world. I am puzzled why ordinary folks feel the need to own and carry a handgun. I'm not judging, although I can see why you might think that.

[Fatcycledaddy]

[QUOTE=UtahPete;1269532]

I said that. When I first went into the Navy it was my first real contact with people who regarded carrying and using guns as normal. There were the rural guys who grew up with guns and had a healthy attitude toward them. And then there were the inner city guys who scared the hell out of me with their macho talk about blowing people away.

My only experience with guns prior to that was going out with the pastor's son and his friend with their dad's shotguns (in Connecticut) 'hunting'; we walked around in the woods with them blasting away at anything that moved and laughing crazily at the explosion of fur and feathers. I began to associate gun ownership in America (I'm a british import) with macho swagger and the notion of becoming a man. Hand guns in particular have only one purpose it seems to me; to shoot people with.

That's the context in which I made that remark; as a young person in the military, trying to figure out the world around me and what it means to be a man.

I see where you are coming from and I am sorry you experienced guns that way. The majority of legal gun owners are not that way and do have a healthy respect for them. When my dad trained me on using a firearm he was very good and very strict. His rule was if you shot it you ate it. I ate some strange animals in my day, possum, raccoon, and many birds ,and not all of them were good, but it kept me from randomly killing things.

[Bob Denman]

His rule was if you shot it you ate it. I ate some strange animals in my day, possum, raccoon, and many birds ,and not all of them were good, but it kept me from randomly killing things.

Our Dads must have learned from the same Grandfather!

Cousin?

[cuznjohn]

my dads brothers taught me how to hunt and shoot. when my dad got out of the air force he didn't really want anything to do with guns. he was a gunner in B24'S AND B17'S and then became a staff sergeant and was in charge of German prisoners overseas, and has a 45 side arm and a Thompson sub machine gun. so when he got out, he had enough. but when i was 9 and he knew i loved to go with his brothers, he got me a single shot 22 and they taught me how to shoot. it was the best. and they were the same, eat what you kill. so i never killed anything i didn't think tasted good.

[Fatcycledaddy]

my dads brothers taught me how to hunt and shoot. when my dad got out of the air force he didn't really want anything to do with guns. he was a gunner in B24'S AND B17'S and then became a staff sergeant and was in charge of German prisoners overseas, and has a 45 side arm and a Thompson sub machine gun. so when he got out, he had enough. but when i was 9 and he knew i loved to go with his brothers, he got me a single shot 22 and they taught me how to shoot. it was the best. and they were the same, eat what you kill. so i never killed anything i didn't think tasted good.

I wasn't that smart, but I caught on quick.
Not a lot to eat on a red winged blackbird.

[Bob Denman]

Did you ever get to try woodchuck?
For all of the good stuff that they eat: they taste pretty darn gamey!

[Fatcycledaddy]

Did you ever get to try woodchuck?
For all of the good stuff that they eat: they taste pretty darn gamey!

That's one I didn't try, possum was bad enough for me.

[cuznjohn]

i have shot a few woodchuck, but we never ate them. you just reminded me of my uncle Pete. he also taught me how to drive because he was obsessed with one chuck. there was one abandoned house in greenwood lake NJ where my grand parents had a summer home. at the house there was a big field in front of it, and a giant woodchuck would sun itself on a stump in the middle of the field. my uncle Pete tried for months to kill this chuck, but it was too smart. it knew his station wagon, and when it saw his car stop, it would go in it's hole and hide. so for a few days uncle Pete taught me how to drive this big wagon, once i got it down pat, he put down the rear door of the wagon, laid down in the back with his rifle, told me to drive down the road very slow, and as we would pass the open field, he would look for the chuck. i don't remember how many time we did this, but he got that chuck one day.

[Bob Denman]

It's pretty amazing how aware they are of everything within their field of view...

[jwulf74]

Also, one of the least densely populated. What are you so afraid of up there you feel the need to carry all the time? What happened to 'home of the brave'?

For starters, mountain lions in the greater backyard... hell, even in town. Darn right hard to reason with the buggers if they decide you or your dog look tasty...

There is a fair amount of crime that comes up from the reservation and we do have MS13 in the area... things get a little nuts during Rally too with all the out of states and bike gangs that roll in.

It is usually very peaceful. But as a former boy scout... be prepared.

[Bob Denman]

It's always better to have a handgun, and not need it: than need one, and not have it!

[UtahPete]

It's always better to have a handgun, and not need it: than need one, and not have it!

That could be true of just about anything.

[Saluda]

[QUOTE=UtahPete;1269532]

I said that. When I first went into the Navy it was my first real contact with people who regarded carrying and using guns as normal. There were the rural guys who grew up with guns and had a healthy attitude toward them. And then there were the inner city guys who scared the hell out of me with their macho talk about blowing people away.

My only experience with guns prior to that was going out with the pastor's son and his friend with their dad's shotguns (in Connecticut) 'hunting'; we walked around in the woods with them blasting away at anything that moved and laughing crazily at the explosion of fur and feathers. I began to associate gun ownership in America (I'm a british import) with macho swagger and the notion of becoming a man. Hand guns in particular have only one purpose it seems to me; to shoot people with.

That's the context in which I made that remark; as a young person in the military, trying to figure out the world around me and what it means to be a man.

I'm going to do a conservative estimate of something to reply to your underlined section above. Over the years I have hunted and done a lot of target shooting. Most of it has been with 1 or 2 relatives and about 4 friends. Rounds expended ? Easily several thousand (once again conservative). People killed (shot), 0.