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  1. #1
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Question SE 5 Down Shift Blip &

    So, I had a new clutch installed while it was in for all the other previously mentioned repairs. (since they had it for a month)

    New problem post clutch replacement.

    Any manual down shift is accompanied by an engine blip, but the down shift doesn't occur in sink with the blip. Instead, it it's delayed by almost a second, sometimes with a new blip and a down shift - sometimes no secondary blip, and sometimes no downshift. Sometimes the downshift with no blip at all below 35MPH causes the rear tire to momentarily lock enough to bark(seize against the pavement).

    I can give greater detail as it relates to at what RPM's and gears if needed but suffice to say this happens with any manual downshift above 4K.

    Dealer tech knows of the problem(he should have noticed it on test ride - but didn't?) and was to place a phone call to BRP yesterday and call me back. I have heard nothing.

    My trip to Springfield is now hinged on a quick fix to this latest problem.

    If you happen to have some insight to the cause I'd be interested in hearing it.

    Thanks
    Jer
    Last edited by Jerbear; 04-20-2017 at 10:16 AM.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  2. #2
    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Don't know. ..!!

    Being a die hard manual type I'm not familiar with the details on the semi auto. I do recall a fellow ryder having clutch work done and had issues with the springs. Seems there are different ones. Bummer know you were ready to plan your route... hope they get back to you
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
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    ​2012 RS sm5


  3. #3
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thanks Chupaca

    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    Being a die hard manual type I'm not familiar with the details on the semi auto. I do recall a fellow ryder having clutch work done and had issues with the springs. Seems there are different ones. Bummer know you were ready to plan your route... hope they get back to you
    I'm thinking "springs" too. It was my first gut instinct.

    My reservations are confirmed and registration paid.


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  4. #4
    Eponymous Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Jer,
    Have you tried letting the computer control handle the downshifting chores?
    Is it still misbehaving then?

    2010 RT A&C ................................. 2014 RT Limited.
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  5. #5
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Jer,
    Have you tried letting the computer control handle the downshifting chores?
    Is it still misbehaving then?
    Thanks Bob but,

    If I leave it to the bike to downshift. This is how it goes. Once the tach(engine) drops to about 2K it down shifts to 4th, then 2K it down shifts again to 3rd, and so on. There's no way this works for me(for numerous bike control reason - safety being one of them). The need for it to operate manually is paramount because of my riding style. I think the only time I've ever let it downshift on it's own, was my very first trip on it from Louisiana to California.


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  6. #6
    Eponymous Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    If it's doing that: you've got an issue going on, that needs addressing.
    My 2010 was a bit "awkward", when downshifting on it's own: it never acted like yours is!

    2010 RT A&C ................................. 2014 RT Limited.
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  7. #7
    RT-S PE#0412 TicketBait's Avatar
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    Jer,
    that has got to be so frustrating, does it also do it in trailer mode? Hope someone here can think of a remedy, wish Nancy's Toy was still here.
    I would call the tech back and see if he spoke with BRP yesterday. Have the tech also tell them you are leaving for Spyderfest Sunday.

    My first fest in 2011, got my faulty throttle body replaced the day before I left for Cuba. And yes, BRP authorized to take a throttle body off of a showroom bike and place it on mine. Just so I could make the fest. Crossing both fingers for you, that you have similar results. BTW my wife gave the ok for me to go, and later today will find out about my other work obligation. So hoping we can ride together.

    TicketBait

  8. #8
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Angry Am I surprised by this........not one damn bit!

    Quote Originally Posted by TicketBait View Post
    Jer,
    that has got to be so frustrating, does it also do it in trailer mode? Hope someone here can think of a remedy, wish Nancy's Toy was still here.
    I would call the tech back and see if he spoke with BRP yesterday. Have the tech also tell them you are leaving for Spyderfest Sunday.

    My first fest in 2011, got my faulty throttle body replaced the day before I left for Cuba. And yes, BRP authorized to take a throttle body off of a showroom bike and place it on mine. Just so I could make the fest. Crossing both fingers for you, that you have similar results. BTW my wife gave the ok for me to go, and later today will find out about my other work obligation. So hoping we can ride together.

    TicketBait
    TB

    Just hung up with the service writer and he's going to get with the tech(who didn't call me back yesterday). They know I'm committed to go to Springfield, because i chided them about it making it when I picked the spyder up.

    Appreciate the thought but, trailer mode would have no influence on proper clutch operation. At best, it's used for RPM control.

    As always, I'm trying not to loose my cool here, but it ain't easy.

    Personally.... I don't give much hope to making the trip(UNLESS I RIDE ONE OF MY DEPENDABLE BIKES). If it requires a new spring package? I don't think it can get here in time.


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  9. #9
    Eponymous Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Hopefully: it'll just take a quick hookup to BUDS, and an ECM flash...

    2010 RT A&C ................................. 2014 RT Limited.
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  10. #10
    RT-S PE#0412 TicketBait's Avatar
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    Hope it's not the spring but a software problem maybe.

    The dealership you mentioned was 100 miles away from where you are? When you set out did it begin to occur or happen later and just get worse? Maybe if they locate the issue they can get overnighted. Get the area rep involved, maybe it is Kevin.McPherson@BRP.com

    For all we've been through on our 2010 RT ahh heck Jer, just go by a new one
    I will ride slow the first 500 miles till you break it in.


    still crossing fingers, but may not take the trip alone here this time. Ridden there 3 times by myself.

  11. #11
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Hopefully: it'll just take a quick hookup to BUDS, and an ECM flash...
    I wish. I think we both know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by TicketBait View Post
    Hope it's not the spring but a software problem maybe.

    The dealership you mentioned was 100 miles away from where you are? When you set out did it begin to occur or happen later and just get worse? Maybe if they locate the issue they can get overnighted. Get the area rep involved, maybe it is Kevin.McPherson@BRP.com

    For all we've been through on our 2010 RT ahh heck Jer, just go by a new one
    I will ride slow the first 500 miles till you break it in.


    still crossing fingers, but may not take the trip alone here this time. Ridden there 3 times by myself.
    Yep, my dealer is out there. Thing is, you hit the freeway almost as soon as you exit the dealer.

    So, the first sign of a problem didn't occur until I exited the freeway at home.

    Then, I was sure something was up. (it was late and I had other obligations_

    So, test rode it yesterday early AM and knew something was up, placed a call to the dealer.

    And here we are.


    I appreciate the contact info but, I have little(if any) faith in BRP.

    I say that due to years of having to deal with them.

    Tho, sometimes they come through.

    Most of the time they don't.

    I have credit card statements to support that claim


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  12. #12
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Arrow Who's at fault here?

    Some would say the dealer is at fault. Simple enough - I guess?

    I tend to see my Spyder as a package deal however.

    #1 BRP decides who will be in their dealer network and should have some quality assurance measures in place. In regards to sales and service.

    Next. They(BRP) have many ways to monitor how well a given service department is or is not functioning. Plus, they have field reps that visit each location whom could also provide feedback at the corporate level.

    First and most important. BRP has to really C.A.R.E. - and this ol boy doesn't think they do. Based on my experiences with them.

    Just the facts.


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  13. #13
    Consumer Advocate akspyderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear View Post
    Some would say the dealer is at fault. Simple enough - I guess?

    I tend to see my Spyder as a package deal however.

    #1 BRP decides who will be in their dealer network and should have some quality assurance measures in place. In regards to sales and service.

    Next. They(BRP) have many ways to monitor how well a given service department is or is not functioning. Plus, they have field reps that visit each location whom could also provide feedback at the corporate level.

    First and most important. BRP has to really C.A.R.E. - and this ol boy doesn't think they do. Based on my experiences with them.

    Just the facts.
    Good points all. Have you thought about taking the Indian to SF? Too many things happening with and pretty close to the departure time. I would recommend the Indian.

    Currently Owned: 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium), 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) Pictures of 2008 and 2009 Spyders are in Alaska Albums 2009 and 2010.
    5 Spyders, 9 years, 133,000 miles, 5 Spyder miles per post.


  14. #14
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Backup plan

    Quote Originally Posted by akspyderman View Post
    Good points all. Have you thought about taking the Indian to SF? Too many things happening with and pretty close to the departure time. I would recommend the Indian.

    Don't take this as rude. I'm simply at my wits end.

    When it comes to doing anything with this Spyder it seems I either have to have a backup plan or plenty of money in the bank.


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  15. #15
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    Hope you do get to make it, tho aside from springs & a really aggressive riding style my guess would be fluid & filter time for a change, should have been done with your previous stuff but, with other things working better now it is adjusting or acting the way other problems were hiding

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  16. #16
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thanks for your input

    Quote Originally Posted by Bfromla View Post
    Hope you do get to make it, tho aside from springs & a really aggressive riding style my guess would be fluid & filter time for a change, should have been done with your previous stuff but, with other things working better now it is adjusting or acting the way other problems were hiding
    Early oil and filter change was done with clutch install. She never gets to 4,500 miles between oil changes and clutch shift function prior to installing the new one was spot on.

    The reason I had it changed was when in cruise control and facing 50 to 60 mile per hour headwinds, the clutch would slip when cruise kicked in. I could also detect slippage when in 5th gear cranking hard on the twist grip.


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  17. #17
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Exclamation It's 5 o'clock somewhere

    No word back from my early AM call to the dealer and theirs to BRP.

    I just called the dealer and the service writer knew nothing and the tech is out to lunch.

    So, scrub another Spyder trip.

    Consider my registration fee a gift.

    This is BS



    Enjoy your Spyderfest!


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  18. #18
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Thinking out loud again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    Being a die hard manual type I'm not familiar with the details on the semi auto. I do recall a fellow ryder having clutch work done and had issues with the springs. Seems there are different ones. Bummer know you were ready to plan your route... hope they get back to you
    Have been thinking on this spring thing. The old clutch had 7 discs, the new one has 8. If, and I do not know this. The new clutch pack comes with new springs, they may be stiffer or longer and stiffer to create enough separation for the added 8th disc. If true, the electrically pulsed hydraulic shift mechanism may not exert enough hydraulic force to override the stiffer spring. All supposition on my part, but then again. It may not be far off.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  19. #19
    Consumer Advocate akspyderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear View Post
    No word back from my early AM call to the dealer and theirs to BRP.

    I just called the dealer and the service writer knew nothing and the tech is out to lunch.

    So, scrub another Spyder trip.

    Consider my registration fee a gift.

    This is BS



    Enjoy your Spyderfest!
    Sorry to hear that.

    Currently Owned: 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium), 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) Pictures of 2008 and 2009 Spyders are in Alaska Albums 2009 and 2010.
    5 Spyders, 9 years, 133,000 miles, 5 Spyder miles per post.


  20. #20
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by akspyderman View Post
    Sorry to hear that.

    Thanks!

    Let down, but not surprised, is how I'm feeling.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  21. #21
    RT-S PE#0412 TicketBait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear View Post
    No word back from my early AM call to the dealer and theirs to BRP.
    .
    Jer,
    call them now before they close. Inquiring minds need to know!

  22. #22
    SpyderLovers Sponsor Doc Humphreys's Avatar
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    You would think that if it was a mechanical issue, it would do it even when letting the byke DS. Since it is not doing it I am thinking it is a software issue. I know that some Chrysler cage transmissions will gradually increase pump pressure to compensate for clutch wear. When replacing the transmission, you must use a scanner and reset the pressures or it will very quickly wear out the new clutch. Hoping it is something like that for you instead of another teardown. May just need a BUDS reflash.

  23. #23
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up You'll know when I know...trust me on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TicketBait View Post
    Jer,
    call them now before they close. Inquiring minds need to know!

    Last I spoke with the dealer I advised I would wait for them to contact me.

    Think about it.

    For two days they say they have been in contact with BRP and yet no one knows anything.

    I have no reason to doubt the calls to BRP have been made.

    The service writer even told me the tech gave them(BRP) his personal phone number.

    Either they(BRP) are swamped with requests for tech support or......fill in the blanks.



    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  24. #24
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I appreciate your input

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Humphreys View Post
    You would think that if it was a mechanical issue, it would do it even when letting the byke DS. Since it is not doing it I am thinking it is a software issue. I know that some Chrysler cage transmissions will gradually increase pump pressure to compensate for clutch wear. When replacing the transmission, you must use a scanner and reset the pressures or it will very quickly wear out the new clutch. Hoping it is something like that for you instead of another teardown. May just need a BUDS reflash.

    Hey Doc,

    I would like to think if a flash was required it would be a called out in the how to information of the techs manual. As well, if it is something like a spring problem that BRP should be aware of. Then they should have issued a revision to their ordering and replacement procedures concerning that.

    As it stands, and after BRP has been aware of this particular issue for a couple days.

    They have offered ZERO support.

    To me, therein lies the rub.



    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  25. #25
    Thinks out loud Jerbear's Avatar
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    Exclamation Could it be?

    Three days waiting on BRP for assistance on a clutch problem.

    Really?

    I'm thinking BRP tech supports keeps tally of the number of calls they receive from a given dealership or tech.

    Once that dealership/tech runs out of calls/time for the month.

    They are left to wait for a dead spot in call volume at BRP tech support,

    or until the following month - when their call/time clock resets.



    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

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