2014 ST-L Fuel Vapor Smell and Drip from Canister Vent

[GearHd]

Hello, I'm wondering if there is supposed to be an EVAP update for the 2014 ST-L? It's got just over 7000 miles on it and I'm noticing a few drips after a ride on the garage floor coming from the charcoal canister vent line that pokes out the right side underbelly plastic. I seem to be noticing a little more fuel smell than I had before as well. Is this telling me that my charcoal canister is now full of gas somehow? Thanks.

I posted this over in the ST section also. I figured there would be more traffic over here.

[Sarge707]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...archid=6819457

I did a advanced search on Fuel canister smell and this is results. You can read for hours! Overfilling or topping off seemed to be a common cause but you determine when you read through them?

[GearHd]

Thanks for the reply Sarge. That is sort of what I was afraid of. I thought BRP changed things on the 14's to stop that issue from happening. Maybe I'm overfilling it but it's so hard to tell what you're doing seeing the fill hole is the same size as the pump nozzle. I'll try changing my fill technique and see if that helps, if not I'll either get a new canister or remove it completely.

[billybovine]

It would be extremely hard to overfill so much as to flood the cannister. That would take filling right to the cap rim with cold fuel, on a hot day and don't drive it right away and use some up.

More likely the purge valve has failed and needs to be replaced. I just looked at the online exploded parts view and there is a replacement kit available like there was for my 2013 STL.

[GearHd]

So the purge valve will make fuel come out the charcoal canister vent line? The regular factory warranty has expired a couple months ago but we're onto the B.E.S.T. warranty now, would those emissions items be covered under that or is this repair on my dime? Thanks.

[billybovine]

So the purge valve will make fuel come out the charcoal canister vent line? The regular factory warranty has expired a couple months ago but we're onto the B.E.S.T. warranty now, would those emissions items be covered under that or is this repair on my dime? Thanks.

How it works. The fumes from evaporating fuel are vented through the charcoal cannister to atmosphere. The charcoal in the canister absorbs most of the fumes on the way. When the engine is running at higher rpms then idle the purge valve opens up. This allows fresh air to be sucked through the canister picking up the fuel fumes that are stored there and burns them in the engine. If the purge valve never opens. The cannister will get saturated with fuel. Then fumes will come out the vent hose and some will condense back to liquid and drip. If the purge valve gets stuck in the open position. You will get a high, rough and unstable idle speed.

If your Spyder was purchased new in the US. The repair should be covered under the 5 year emissions warranty.

[GearHd]

Great explanation! Thank you. I'm assuming my purge valve must be stuck in the closed position then. I'll call the dealership in a little while and see if I can get it in there soon.

And I see what you're saying about the purge valve kit they offer now, it looks like it has a filter and some sort of check valve built into it.

[GearHd]

I have the Spyder booked in for next week. The service writer was already leaning toward me overfilling the tank of course. They're going to diagnose it and get back to me. I really think there's a purge valve issue seeing they don't even list the old style purge valves on the parts breakdowns anymore. Now there is a much more elaborate purge valve that includes hoses, filters and check valves so it's obvious BRP knew there was an issue.

Yesterday we rode it about 60 miles on the tank of gas that's currently in it and I had a lot of gas fumes in the garage and a small puddle on the floor under the canister vent.

[White Lightening]

How it works. The fumes from evaporating fuel are vented through the charcoal cannister to atmosphere. The charcoal in the canister absorbs most of the fumes on the way. When the engine is running at higher rpms then idle the purge valve opens up. This allows fresh air to be sucked through the canister picking up the fuel fumes that are stored there and burns them in the engine. If the purge valve never opens. The cannister will get saturated with fuel. Then fumes will come out the vent hose and some will condense back to liquid and drip. If the purge valve gets stuck in the open position. You will get a high, rough and unstable idle speed.

If your Spyder was purchased new in the US. The repair should be covered under the 5 year emissions warranty.

This explanation is one of the best I've ever seen on site. To the point without unnecessary commentary and easy to understand for even those like me that know nothing about how systems like this work. Well done!

[finless]

Even with a working purge valve the canister getting saturated has always been a problem with the 998's.
Especially if you get the boiling gas issue which I have had.
Stuck in traffic on a 95F day I stopped at the gas station and could hear the gas boiling when I removed the cap.
After that happened I had the "Evap stink" on hot days.

I have had my canister replaced twice (and new purge valve) under warranty. This summer I plan to bypass the canister as my warranty is over (bike is 6 years old so the emissions warranty is over).

The 2013 RT recall solved this issue in many ways.
1) Scoops to help keep the tank area cooler.
2) A new Evap canister system with a pre-filter
3) A change to the fuel system making it a "dead head" system. E.g. Hot fuel in no longer put back in the tank coming from the engine.
4) A software change to support the fuel system changes.

This is only available on the 2013 RT as a recall.

The rest of us are stuck with this issue. For RT's adding the scoops helps but not fully.
I wish BRP would make these changes for the other models!!!!

Bob

[billybovine]

Even with a working purge valve the canister getting saturated has always been a problem with the 998's.
Especially if you get the boiling gas issue which I have had.
Stuck in traffic on a 95F day I stopped at the gas station and could hear the gas boiling when I removed the cap.
After that happened I had the "Evap stink" on hot days.

I have had my canister replaced twice (and new purge valve) under warranty. This summer I plan to bypass the canister as my warranty is over (bike is 6 years old so the emissions warranty is over).

The 2013 RT recall solved this issue in many ways.
1) Scoops to help keep the tank area cooler.
2) A new Evap canister system with a pre-filter
3) A change to the fuel system making it a "dead head" system. E.g. Hot fuel in no longer put back in the tank coming from the engine.
4) A software change to support the fuel system changes.

This is only available on the 2013 RT as a recall.

The rest of us are stuck with this issue. For RT's adding the scoops helps but not fully.
I wish BRP would make these changes for the other models!!!!

Bob

The OPs' 2014 STL has additional air scoops over the 2013 model. All STs have a vent under the headlights that RT does not have. From his posts it sounds like the fuel smell has become a recent problem. So something is not working that was before. Saying that is cannot be fixed just seems illogical to me. Just fix what is broke and move on.

On my 2013 STL. I do not have a fuel smell issue except for a 2 week period in the late fall of 2015 that fixed itself. That was after I had the 2014 scoop panels installed. Also cold weather riding, so heat not the issue. In the spring I installed the new purge valve kit anyways during my spring maintenance. Still no gas smell. I did not install a new canister. A saturated canister is a symptom of a problem. Replacing it fixes nothing.

[finless]

A saturated canister is a symptom of a problem. Replacing it fixes nothing.

As I said been through the entire purge valve thing. Replaced, etc...
Following summer had the issue again. Purge valve was fine, they replaced it all anyway. Next summer, back again.

Peoples experiences with this issue have been different (usually based on weather and heat, etc) but if you search here "evap canister" or "gas smell" you will see the hundreds of posts about this.
Trust me, it is an issue! NTSB forced the issue on the 2013 RT because of changes and fires that resulted.

Finally if you search "canisterectomy" you will see the people that got tired of the problem, dealer visits to fix it, etc and bypass it.

So say what you want, sorry, it is a design issue.

Bob

[GearHd]

We drop it off at the dealer tomorrow so I'll keep the thread updated. I know there's an updated purge valve, maybe that'll fix it with a new charcoal canister. The ST was fine for about the first 6500 miles, the last 500 or so has been when I've noticed the problem. So something has clearly gone wrong recently.

And the whole canister removal thing just confuses me. So you remove the charcoal canister but that fuel tank has to vent somewhere? So now it just vents the nasty fumes out the vent hose rather than through the charcoal canister? It seems you're still going to have the gas fumes but just taking a different path.

[finless]

We drop it off at the dealer tomorrow so I'll keep the thread updated. I know there's an updated purge valve, maybe that'll fix it with a new charcoal canister. The ST was fine for about the first 6500 miles, the last 500 or so has been when I've noticed the problem. So something has clearly gone wrong recently.

And the whole canister removal thing just confuses me. So you remove the charcoal canister but that fuel tank has to vent somewhere? So now it just vents the nasty fumes out the vent hose rather than through the charcoal canister? It seems you're still going to have the gas fumes but just taking a different path.

The hose holds little, the canister holds a lot and the saturated canister takes awhile to stop stinking. Yes it will still vent out the hose but wont sit there and stink for days.

Bob

[GearHd]

We dropped it off at the dealer today and that was the second time the service manager wanted to self diagnose the issue without even looking at it and blaming me for overfilling the tank. They claim they won't even look at it until Thursday. He also seemed to want to forget the fact that there was a 5 year emissions warranty saying that he didn't know if my B.E.S.T warranty would cover it. I had to remind him of the emissions warranty and then he all of a sudden remembered.

[GearHd]

Well after almost 3 weeks at the dealer we finally got the Spyder back. They claim they weighed the old charcoal canister and it was 515 grams and a new one is 400 grams so there was some fuel in it. They were determined that we overfilled it but I know for a fact it was never overfilled. They filed a claim with Can Am and they agreed to replace just the canister and the heat tape. So that's what I got, a new canister, heat tape and the .5 hours labor to install it. I looked at it today and noticed a missing bolt, so I took things further apart and found the canister wasn't even attached to its bracket, it was essentially hanging from the hoses. So I was able to position the canister and slide it into its bracket correctly. I also noticed that the vent hose was no longer poking out the hole in the bottom plastic pan. So any fumes would just be venting into the engine compartment. So I had to remove the lower pan and feed it back into the hole in the plastic pan. Time to research a new dealer with a competent service department I guess.

[billybovine]

So all they did was put on a new canister or did I miss something and they found and fixed the problem?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well after almost 3 weeks at the dealer we finally got the Spyder back. They claim they weighed the old charcoal canister and it was 515 grams and a new one is 400 grams so there was some fuel in it. They were determined that we overfilled it but I know for a fact it was never overfilled. They filed a claim with Can Am and they agreed to replace just the canister and the heat tape. So that's what I got, a new canister, heat tape and the .5 hours labor to install it. I looked at it today and noticed a missing bolt, so I took things further apart and found the canister wasn't even attached to its bracket, it was essentially hanging from the hoses. So I was able to position the canister and slide it into its bracket correctly. I also noticed that the vent hose was no longer poking out the hole in the bottom plastic pan. So any fumes would just be venting into the engine compartment. So I had to remove the lower pan and feed it back into the hole in the plastic pan. Time to research a new dealer with a competent service department I guess.

....If they can't get the little things right ...... can you expect them to get the big things even close to right ???? ...... I don't think so ..........Mike ............ PS get rid of the canister entirely and be done with it .....jmho ..... Mike

[GearHd]

So all they did was put on a new canister or did I miss something and they found and fixed the problem?

No you didn't miss anything. Like I said before, they had the problem diagnosed before they even saw the Spyder, they wanted to blame me for overfilling the tank. I mentioned to them numerous times that there was an updated purge valve assembly for that model but all they'd say was that a code would set if the purge valve was bad and that they'd cycle it manually to make sure it clicks.

When I took it apart after I got it back, I extended the hose from the fuel tank to the canister and made a big loop that went up toward the handlebars so fuel will have to defy gravity in order to get pushed into the charcoal canister.

And yes, the next step after this canister goes bad is to just get rid of it. I wanted to give the dealer and warranty process a chance to make things right at least once.

[MBOZ]

I have the same gas smell happening on a 2013 STS. I can see gas vaporizing under the engine area when looking under machine. Looks like terrible fire hazard. Where is this canister located and which panels need the be taken off the get to it?

[Haze]

The canister is on the right (throttle) side.
Midship almost parallel with the Gas Cap.
See the following thread.
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...canisterectomy

[BRPcare]

I have the same gas smell happening on a 2013 STS. I can see gas vaporizing under the engine area when looking under machine. Looks like terrible fire hazard. Where is this canister located and which panels need the be taken off the get to it?

Hey MBOZ, thanks for your message. We are sorry to hear of your concerns with your 2013 STS. Could you please send us an email to brp.care@brp.com or call us at 1-888-272-9222, we would like to hear your story and see how we can help. Please ensure to provide your VIN as well as a reference to this forum, or to your username, when you make contact. We are looking forward to hearing from you. Talk soon, Vanessa-BRPcare