Arachnid rear tire vs kenda

[Peteoz]

I did pose that to my dealer-his response was we cannot afford the liability of putting a car tire on your bike. For goodness sake-it's not a two wheeler. From what I've read on the forum automobile tires are actually superior to the stock motorcycle wanna B Kenda tires. So the mystery is why BRP doesn't agree?
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Hahaha......it's not really a mystery, Norm......BRP have a partnership with Kenda which would have allowed BRP to get a great tyre price to help keep the cost of the Spyder down. If their dealers then run around telling everyone to replace their Kendas with better tyres, Kenda would be seriously "put out".

I bet the BRP management meetings trying to work out how to make it difficult for owners to change tyre brands went well into the night and the next day. In the end, some MBA graduate has said "let's stamp it "Special Motorcycle Tyre", that way our dealers can refuse to put a car tyre on for "safety reasons", and many car tyre shops will see the motorcycle stamp and say "hey, I can't put a car tyre on this motorcycle" ........ sorted......let's do lunch"

Pete

[petegtsv10]

OF COURSE IT'S 0.75 WIDER.... IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE COMPARING A 325 TO A 335....

I wrote that the 325 was wider than the 335.......

[Peteoz]

I wrote that the 325 was wider than the 335.......

Hahaha.....yeah, most of us got that, Pete

[papanorm]

Hahaha......it's not really a mystery, Norm......BRP have a partnership with Kenda which would have allowed BRP to get a great tyre price to help keep the cost of the Spyder down. If their dealers then run around telling everyone to replace their Kendas with better tyres, Kenda would be seriously "put out".

I bet the BRP management meetings trying to work out how to make it difficult for owners to change tyre brands went well into the night and the next day. In the end, some MBA graduate has said "let's stamp it "Special Motorcycle Tyre", that way our dealers can refuse to put a car tyre on for "safety reasons", and many car tyre shops will see the motorcycle stamp and say "hey, I can't put a car tyre on this motorcycle" ........ sorted......let's do lunch"

Pete

You hit the nail on the head , Pete, just follow the dollar.


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[papanorm]

Why do some folks put the front wheels on car ramps when pulling the rear tire off? I'm getting all of my information together before I do this.



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[Bob Denman]

If you want to push the argument a bit: ask him if he has EVER compared a Spyder's wheel, to an automotive wheel?
The design of them are the same...
Spyders corner like cars; not motorcycles.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Why do some folks put the front wheels on car ramps when pulling the rear tire off? I'm getting all of my information together before I do this.



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Because this provides a stable platform, it's a little easier to get to the shock bolt and possibly they are doing an oil change also................. Mike

[papanorm]

Thanks Mike. I would think that putting wheel chocks on the front wheels would also provide a stabile method as well.


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[Peteoz]

Thanks Mike. I would think that putting wheel chocks on the front wheels would also provide a stabile method as well.


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Norm, this is a long post, but it's the dummies guide (named after me, not anyone else) to rear wheel replacement that I compiled after changing the rear on my F3-L. It's a bit anal but there might be something in here that helps......

2016 F3 Limited - REAR WHEEL REMOVE & REPLACE FOR DUMMIES


PLEASE NOTE ......THIS R&R PROCESS IS FOR THE F3 WITH THE NEW REAR WHEEL WITH INTEGRATED HUB, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS BY FINLESS AND LAMONSTER (both of which are for the old style wheel with removable hub). IT IS DESIGNED FOR THOSE WITH A GENERAL MECHANICAL KNOWLEDGE, BUT LIMITED DETAILED KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THE SPYDER IS PUT TOGETHER.


I installed a Kuhmo KU22 205/55 r15 which has the same rolling diameter as the stock Kenda. I went for a slightly narrower width as I have the stick on aftermarket belt guard and wanted to ensure it did not rub on a new tyre.


Obviously, while I believe these guidelines are relatively complete, I can accept no responsibility for their detailed accuracy. They are intended as a guideline only. Created December 2016......


BEFORE STARTING, YOU WILL NEED -


1. A bike lift (I used Harbour Freight)
2. 2 x 36mm ring spanners for the axle (or 1 x 36mm spanner and 1 x 36mm socket). Can Am must use Brian Shaw (aka the World's Strongest Man), to tighten their axle and brake caliper nuts while using judicious amounts of yellow locktite. They are on there very tightly (160ft/lbs +/- 10lbs for the axle). How Finless managed to use two short spanners to get the axle undone is beyond me (although, have Finless Bob and Brian Shaw ever been seen together in the same room? ��). I used a long 36mm spanner and a 36mm 3/4" socket head with a loooong 3/4" breaker bar.
3. Assorted sockets/extender and open/ring spanners.
4. Torque wrench (up to 150 ft/lbs)
6. White lithium grease (WD40 and others make this)
7. I (and others) have found that a liberal amount of blue locktite will work just as well as the recommended yellow when reassembling.
8. Just in case, check for a bearing shop in your vicinity. The "o" ring in my wheel was missing some chunks of rubber, and others have also found this. The Spyder "o" ring is too big for most auto shops to carry, but most bearing shops will have them. Hopefully you won't even have to worry about this.
9. Set aside an afternoon if this is your first removal, and a morning to replace, as you are bound to be scratching your head from time to time. After the first one you would be looking at a couple of hours to remove and the same to reinstall.


WHEEL REMOVAL -


1. Position your bike lift toward the rear of the chassis bar, being careful not to crush the exhaust springs.
2. Place F3 in neutral, park brake on.
3. Remove the axle covers, cotter pin and break the axle nut (bloody tight). You will need a 36mm spanner and a 36mm socket with breaker bar or looooong handle for leverage.
5. Remove the rear suspension nut from the shock.
6. Lift Spyder up/down minutely using your preferred lift equipment until there is no pressure on the rear shock and the bolt will slide out fairly easily with just finger pressure (this allows the swing arm to drop when you jack the Spyder up, which allows you access to the top brake caliper bolt as well as making belt removal and reinstallation easier and eliminating the need to realign your belt)
7. Lift Spyder further until the rear wheel is barely off the ground and chock the rear wheel (just for stability while breaking the caliper nuts.....) This will expose the upper brake caliper nut.
9. Break the brake caliper nuts (bloody tight). You will need a socket and extender to get at the upper the brake caliper nut.
10. Unbolt and remove the sensor next to the caliper(remember where each shim goes - I had 4, all between the sensor and the caliper mount plate)
12. Turn the Ignition on, release the park brake, then turn the ignition off. Cover your ears while it beeps at you for 20 seconds.
13. Take lots of photographs of the pieces of equipment you are about to remove to ensure you can put every shim/washer/piece back in the correct place.
14. Tape up the axle adjusters thoroughly with duct tape on both sides of the swing arm ( around an 8" piece, along the top of the arm, over the back and underneath the arm) so the components don't fall out and to keep the halves and bolt in place to save having to recalibrate after wheel reinstall.....or worse, have the pieces fall into the swing arm.
16. Gradually slide the belt off the rear sprocket. (mine came off easily)
18. Put a cloth inside the wheel to avoid damaging it when the caliper comes off. (Just in case)
20. Remove the brake caliper bolts and the slide the caliper off the disc (tight fit) and bungy to the frame or exhaust to keep the load off it.
21. Avoid touching the brake pedal while the caliper is off as you could create nanny messages when you start the Spyder......which can be fairly easily rectified....... but.....)
23. Remove the rear wheel chock and lower the Spyder until the wheel touches the ground.
25. Undo the axle nut completely.
27. Lift Spyder slightly until there is minimal pressure on the wheel/tyre. The axle should just slide out from the left using hand pressure if you have the wheel at the right height.
29. Lift Spyder to maximum and roll the wheel out. You may have to tip the Spyder forward to do this. Be verrrrry careful not to overbalance the Spyder (I nearly did)
30. Remove the metal bushings from each side of the wheel. (if they haven't already fallen out when you withdrew the axle)
31. Remove the disc from the wheel. The bolts are, again, very tight and you need a socket to do this as a spanner will not fit in the recess. Loosen opposing bolts gradually (I.e. Don't just undo in a circle)
32. Turn the wheel over and lay flat (the wheel, not you!) with the sprocket facing you. Pull upwards while wiggling and the sprocket will lift out. Mark the sprocket to wheel position to ensure you don't hide the tyre valve behind a sprocket cross piece when reassembling. Remove the 5 rubber dampers. Check your "O" ring for damage (mine was missing a couple of chunks for some unknown reason.)
33. Take the wheel "as is" to your tyre guy. Watch the tyre guy's expression as he comes face to face with the Spyder wheel with integrated hub for the first time. There will be either a look of consternation, or a look of "I know how to do this". They will most likely not be able to balance the tyre as there is a concern that the conical fastener on their balancer may damage the bearing in the hub. You could have it static balanced at a bike shop (and some car/truck tyre shops do have static balancers)....... or align the tyre dot to the valve (the tyre guys should do this automatically) and remove any existing weights. This should work on good quality rear tyres (i.e. not on Kenda or Arachnid), and certainly worked for me. If this doesn't work, some have installed Dyna Beads. Ride-on also works for some, but is disliked by many tyre shops as it is messy when replacing the tyre. The choice is yours, but no responsibility is accepted for your choice.


WHEEL REINSTALL -


1. Reinstall the rubber dampers and gently wiggle the sprocket back on to the wheel as per line up marks, along with white lithium greased "O" ring. Make sure it is fully seated.
2. Reinstall the disc on the wheel. (Use blue locktite and ensure you tighten opposing bolts as you go. TORQUE to 63ft/lbs.
3. Reinstall the bushings into the wheel each side.
4. Lift the Spyder and manoeuver the wheel back in.
5. Lower the Spyder until the axle hole aligns with the swing arm holes.
6. Ensure the disc caliper backing plate is in position for the axle to slide through (to save having to remove the wheel after you have installed it because you find a metal backing plate lying on the ground.....don't ask me how I know ����). Hang the backing plate from the stud on the swing arm while you slide the axle through the wheel, then you can raise the plate to slip the axle through the plate hole.
7. Slide the axle through the swing arm, the wheel caliper backing plate and opposing swing arm. (It should slide fairly easily if you have you bike lift at the correct height).
8. Chock the wheel as far forward as possible while tightening the axle to ensure you keep your belt tension.
9. Reinstall the axle nuts and TORQUE to 160 foot/lbs. (you can get away with 150lbs according to the workshop manual).
10. Reinstall the cotter pin and axle covers.
11. Lift the Spyder until the wheel is off the ground to allow access to the upper brake caliper bolt hole.
12. Separate the pads in the brake caliper and slide the brake caliper over the disc (it's tight fit, make sure the pads are separated in the caliper) and hand tighten the caliper bolts (use loctite).
14. Reinstall the sensor, ensuring shims are in the correct spot (use loctite.)
16. Slide the belt back on the sprocket (it helps to rotate the wheel)
17. Lower the Spyder to stability (meaning the wheel is just touching the ground).
18. Remove the axle adjuster tape.
19. TORQUE the brake caliper bolts to 77 ft/lbs
20. Lower/Lift the Spyder until the shock bolt holes align and insert bolt.
21. TORQUE nut to 35ft/lbs(use loctite).
23. Press hard on the brake pedal with the ignition off to reset the pads and ABS.
25. Lift the Spyder rear wheel off the ground. Select first gear and check belt for movement while the tyre is rotating. Brake and try in reverse. The belt should not move from side to side. If it does, you need a belt alignment adjustment. The belt should be 1mm to 5mm gap from the sprocket.
26. Lower the Spyder.
27. Check the tyre pressure.
28. Test ride......hopefully with no nanny messages.

[jcthorne]

I did pose that to my dealer-his response was we cannot afford the liability of putting a car tire on your bike. For goodness sake-it's not a two wheeler. From what I've read on the forum automobile tires are actually superior to the stock motorcycle wanna B Kenda tires. So the mystery is why BRP doesn't agree?


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Your
bike has automotive type tires from the factory. The ones supplied by BRP from Kenda a labeled 'For motorcycle use only' as they are not rated high enough load capacity to be safe on a larger vehicle. They are NOT motorcycle tires which have a very different cross section and bead profile.

[papanorm]

Pete,
I'm wondering if your real job is to write technical manuals. This is amazing information. Thanks so much.
Norm

Norm, this is a long post, but it's the dummies guide (named after me, not anyone else) to rear wheel replacement that I compiled after changing the rear on my F3-L. It's a bit anal but there might be something in here that helps......

2016 F3 Limited - REAR WHEEL REMOVE & REPLACE FOR DUMMIES


PLEASE NOTE ......THIS R&R PROCESS IS FOR THE F3 WITH THE NEW REAR WHEEL WITH INTEGRATED HUB, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS BY FINLESS AND LAMONSTER (both of which are for the old style wheel with removable hub). IT IS DESIGNED FOR THOSE WITH A GENERAL MECHANICAL KNOWLEDGE, BUT LIMITED DETAILED KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THE SPYDER IS PUT TOGETHER.


I installed a Kuhmo KU22 205/55 r15 which has the same rolling diameter as the stock Kenda. I went for a slightly narrower width as I have the stick on aftermarket belt guard and wanted to ensure it did not rub on a new tyre.


Obviously, while I believe these guidelines are relatively complete, I can accept no responsibility for their detailed accuracy. They are intended as a guideline only. Created December 2016......


BEFORE STARTING, YOU WILL NEED -


1. A bike lift (I used Harbour Freight)
2. 2 x 36mm ring spanners for the axle (or 1 x 36mm spanner and 1 x 36mm socket). Can Am must use Brian Shaw (aka the World's Strongest Man), to tighten their axle and brake caliper nuts while using judicious amounts of yellow locktite. They are on there very tightly (160ft/lbs +/- 10lbs for the axle). How Finless managed to use two short spanners to get the axle undone is beyond me (although, have Finless Bob and Brian Shaw ever been seen together in the same room? ��). I used a long 36mm spanner and a 36mm 3/4" socket head with a loooong 3/4" breaker bar.
3. Assorted sockets/extender and open/ring spanners.
4. Torque wrench (up to 150 ft/lbs)
6. White lithium grease (WD40 and others make this)
7. I (and others) have found that a liberal amount of blue locktite will work just as well as the recommended yellow when reassembling.
8. Just in case, check for a bearing shop in your vicinity. The "o" ring in my wheel was missing some chunks of rubber, and others have also found this. The Spyder "o" ring is too big for most auto shops to carry, but most bearing shops will have them. Hopefully you won't even have to worry about this.
9. Set aside an afternoon if this is your first removal, and a morning to replace, as you are bound to be scratching your head from time to time. After the first one you would be looking at a couple of hours to remove and the same to reinstall.


WHEEL REMOVAL -


1. Position your bike lift toward the rear of the chassis bar, being careful not to crush the exhaust springs.
2. Place F3 in neutral, park brake on.
3. Remove the axle covers, cotter pin and break the axle nut (bloody tight). You will need a 36mm spanner and a 36mm socket with breaker bar or looooong handle for leverage.
5. Remove the rear suspension nut from the shock.
6. Lift Spyder up/down minutely using your preferred lift equipment until there is no pressure on the rear shock and the bolt will slide out fairly easily with just finger pressure (this allows the swing arm to drop when you jack the Spyder up, which allows you access to the top brake caliper bolt as well as making belt removal and reinstallation easier and eliminating the need to realign your belt)
7. Lift Spyder further until the rear wheel is barely off the ground and chock the rear wheel (just for stability while breaking the caliper nuts.....) This will expose the upper brake caliper nut.
9. Break the brake caliper nuts (bloody tight). You will need a socket and extender to get at the upper the brake caliper nut.
10. Unbolt and remove the sensor next to the caliper(remember where each shim goes - I had 4, all between the sensor and the caliper mount plate)
12. Turn the Ignition on, release the park brake, then turn the ignition off. Cover your ears while it beeps at you for 20 seconds.
13. Take lots of photographs of the pieces of equipment you are about to remove to ensure you can put every shim/washer/piece back in the correct place.
14. Tape up the axle adjusters thoroughly with duct tape on both sides of the swing arm ( around an 8" piece, along the top of the arm, over the back and underneath the arm) so the components don't fall out and to keep the halves and bolt in place to save having to recalibrate after wheel reinstall.....or worse, have the pieces fall into the swing arm.
16. Gradually slide the belt off the rear sprocket. (mine came off easily)
18. Put a cloth inside the wheel to avoid damaging it when the caliper comes off. (Just in case)
20. Remove the brake caliper bolts and the slide the caliper off the disc (tight fit) and bungy to the frame or exhaust to keep the load off it.
21. Avoid touching the brake pedal while the caliper is off as you could create nanny messages when you start the Spyder......which can be fairly easily rectified....... but.....)
23. Remove the rear wheel chock and lower the Spyder until the wheel touches the ground.
25. Undo the axle nut completely.
27. Lift Spyder slightly until there is minimal pressure on the wheel/tyre. The axle should just slide out from the left using hand pressure if you have the wheel at the right height.
29. Lift Spyder to maximum and roll the wheel out. You may have to tip the Spyder forward to do this. Be verrrrry careful not to overbalance the Spyder (I nearly did)
30. Remove the metal bushings from each side of the wheel. (if they haven't already fallen out when you withdrew the axle)
31. Remove the disc from the wheel. The bolts are, again, very tight and you need a socket to do this as a spanner will not fit in the recess. Loosen opposing bolts gradually (I.e. Don't just undo in a circle)
32. Turn the wheel over and lay flat (the wheel, not you!) with the sprocket facing you. Pull upwards while wiggling and the sprocket will lift out. Mark the sprocket to wheel position to ensure you don't hide the tyre valve behind a sprocket cross piece when reassembling. Remove the 5 rubber dampers. Check your "O" ring for damage (mine was missing a couple of chunks for some unknown reason.)
33. Take the wheel "as is" to your tyre guy. Watch the tyre guy's expression as he comes face to face with the Spyder wheel with integrated hub for the first time. There will be either a look of consternation, or a look of "I know how to do this". They will most likely not be able to balance the tyre as there is a concern that the conical fastener on their balancer may damage the bearing in the hub. You could have it static balanced at a bike shop (and some car/truck tyre shops do have static balancers)....... or align the tyre dot to the valve (the tyre guys should do this automatically) and remove any existing weights. This should work on good quality rear tyres (i.e. not on Kenda or Arachnid), and certainly worked for me. If this doesn't work, some have installed Dyna Beads. Ride-on also works for some, but is disliked by many tyre shops as it is messy when replacing the tyre. The choice is yours, but no responsibility is accepted for your choice.


WHEEL REINSTALL -


1. Reinstall the rubber dampers and gently wiggle the sprocket back on to the wheel as per line up marks, along with white lithium greased "O" ring. Make sure it is fully seated.
2. Reinstall the disc on the wheel. (Use blue locktite and ensure you tighten opposing bolts as you go. TORQUE to 63ft/lbs.
3. Reinstall the bushings into the wheel each side.
4. Lift the Spyder and manoeuver the wheel back in.
5. Lower the Spyder until the axle hole aligns with the swing arm holes.
6. Ensure the disc caliper backing plate is in position for the axle to slide through (to save having to remove the wheel after you have installed it because you find a metal backing plate lying on the ground.....don't ask me how I know ����). Hang the backing plate from the stud on the swing arm while you slide the axle through the wheel, then you can raise the plate to slip the axle through the plate hole.
7. Slide the axle through the swing arm, the wheel caliper backing plate and opposing swing arm. (It should slide fairly easily if you have you bike lift at the correct height).
8. Chock the wheel as far forward as possible while tightening the axle to ensure you keep your belt tension.
9. Reinstall the axle nuts and TORQUE to 160 foot/lbs. (you can get away with 150lbs according to the workshop manual).
10. Reinstall the cotter pin and axle covers.
11. Lift the Spyder until the wheel is off the ground to allow access to the upper brake caliper bolt hole.
12. Separate the pads in the brake caliper and slide the brake caliper over the disc (it's tight fit, make sure the pads are separated in the caliper) and hand tighten the caliper bolts (use loctite).
14. Reinstall the sensor, ensuring shims are in the correct spot (use loctite.)
16. Slide the belt back on the sprocket (it helps to rotate the wheel)
17. Lower the Spyder to stability (meaning the wheel is just touching the ground).
18. Remove the axle adjuster tape.
19. TORQUE the brake caliper bolts to 77 ft/lbs
20. Lower/Lift the Spyder until the shock bolt holes align and insert bolt.
21. TORQUE nut to 35ft/lbs(use loctite).
23. Press hard on the brake pedal with the ignition off to reset the pads and ABS.
25. Lift the Spyder rear wheel off the ground. Select first gear and check belt for movement while the tyre is rotating. Brake and try in reverse. The belt should not move from side to side. If it does, you need a belt alignment adjustment. The belt should be 1mm to 5mm gap from the sprocket.
26. Lower the Spyder.
27. Check the tyre pressure.
28. Test ride......hopefully with no nanny messages.

[finless]

How Finless managed to use two short spanners to get the axle undone is beyond me (although, have Finless Bob and Brian Shaw ever been seen together in the same room? ��). I used a long 36mm spanner and a 36mm 3/4" socket head with a loooong 3/4" breaker bar.

LOL.....

Bob