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Hello There Guys, while I was out and about today after filling the bike up with gas then when I went to start it, :dontknow: I had an error message Key Failed to read so I turned it off took the key out back in and started no problems :thumbup: has anyone else had this happen? No, I do not leave the key in my bike the dog or the chickens will try to steal it. :lecturef_smilie:
You may be in the beginning stages of having a communication problem between the key chip and the bikes antitheft system. It has been a problem in the past for a few people here. Go to the top of the page and in the search bar, put in DESS, & you will have a world of reading!
"Key Failed", "Bad Key", "DESS Error" - all the same thing. There's a crazy long thread on here about it - it's like 15+ pages long now. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
Short story - there is an electronic ring around where the key goes in - it triggers the key to report its RFID tag - and that's sent to the DESS Module which interprets it and sends it to the ECU to determine if the key is valid. Anything that can put out RF noise (READ CELL PHONE - PHONE CHARGING HEAD - GPS) near the ignition area can cause signal issues. My personal experience - this is a bigger issue on more humid and/or cold days - not sure of the science there - but that's my personal findings.
Some have experienced the issue once and never again - some have it start off every now and then until eventually they are left stranded.
If the DESS module goes bad, you have 2 choices - replace it; or disable it! To disable it, you need BUDS with a Megatech license. A few of us have this and offer to disable it for folks for a small fee.
Well - I guess that story wasn't so short - but it wasn't 15 pages either. LOL! Moral of the story - if your phone is nearby - move it until you start the bike - if you get worried about it - decide if disabling the DESS is right for you - meaning and key cut correctly could then start your Spyder. If yes - find someone who can do it for you.
Hello and thank you for the feedback after reading one page with 14 left it is quite obvious there is a problem that needs to be addressed :lecturef_smilie: there. Like mentioned it could happen to me once then it may never occur again, but that does not fill me with confidence as it is my only way out as I am in the country, as I am unable to drive a car safely due to MS. nojokeQuote:
Originally Posted by Jdr00ejr
Right on Latrappe, second time it happened to me I was stranded so I had it disabled. Very disappointed in BRP not addressing this. Same technology in millions of cars with no issue.
Like JD said above, if it was me, I would have it disarmed and be done with that gremlin! :coffee: Good Luck!!
Dis-abling is the Best option ..... How ever achieving that may not be possible .... Do what I did to my DESS connections to make it a 10 minute procedure to do it in the field with socket wrench & socket .... Go to my Albums ( with explanations ) and see how I did it .... Of course you will have to get a DESS module as a spare ( $ 145.00 ) .... good luck ...Mike :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
Had the Bad Key show up again, placed in the spare and it worked, but for how long, I :dontknow: Have also been watching this, which I found today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHqXa1_nU8g&t=42s They made two videos about it...
I also spoke to the dealer, who was saying it could be the battery (which it is not, as I just replaced that!) He then proceeded to tell me to put a multi meter on the battery and crank the motor to see how low the voltage drops to test it; after taking three deep breaths and a big chug of my beer so I would not call him an idiot, I then proceeded to tell him it is reading a bad key and it does nothing other than tell me it's a bad key (as much I was tempted to say you must be fed peanuts, and then call him a monkey!) I remained calm and drank some more beer.
So, I am now in the search for a new Can Am shop who has the required BUDS so I can disable it. Last thing I want is to be stranded and have someone tell me the key is worn out :banghead: :cus:
Very ironic that you refuse to accomplish the battery test he suggested. Granted, your bad key indication is not during engine cranking, but the guy did recommend one of the first viable steps in helping you determine a cause while saving the hassle of removing the battery and testing it. Fully understand you have a new battery, and yes it should be acceptable, however, a failing new battery can and does happen sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
The tech suggesting troubleshoot and verify, rather than simply replacing parts as a best guess is not normally a bad thing.
Good battery or not, certainly disable DESS.
Never never never own a Spyder with only one key. If you buy an used one that only has one key, go to your dealer and have a second key made ASP. They can not make a key unless you have one to copy.
And the third key!!! Go to a lock shop and have them cut an ilco X270 TMC1(Triumph Motorcycle) key to your key. This will open the rear lock for the top and side cases. Now stow your second key in one of the three compartments. Keep this third key separate from how you carry the Spyder key. Two things, your second key is available if the first one gets a key error and if you lose your key while out, you can get to the second one even if the trike is locked.
Exactly! :agree: I did the very same thing years ago in hopes of defeating the DESS gremlin. So far so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoking1127
Latrappe,Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
I sent you a PM.
Deanna
Thank you for the response guys the battery is OK good voltage and amps, will be going to the shop and get some more keys cut and programmed.:thumbup:
Having an extra key isn't such a bad idea, but it won't matter HOW MANY keys you have when the DESS fails... and while knowing for sure that your battery is up to the task is a good start, cos these Spyders are EXTREMELY power hungry, so it's probably a good idea to get it load tested anyway (even a brand new battery can fail, especially if it wasn't properly charged before installation; only when you load test or even if you use the rudimentary multi-meter check, look for a minimum of 12 volts while cranking the starter - these Spyders REALLY ARE EXTREMELY power hungry & anything less than that juuuust might not be enough to get all the computers going properly while everything else is going on at the same time!! :cus: ) from what you've described, it sounds more like it's a DESS issue... which means either replace whichever bit has failed/is causing your particular problem, or get it turned off, and that means finding someone with BUDS Megatech which may not be easy on the Sunshine Coast of Qld?! :banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
So check out the DESS Again thread that Deanna started - it's a long read, closed now, but it should help make it fairly clear as to what you're likely facing, and how to resolve it using the replace it method (note Blueknight911's earlier post on that ;) ) or find someone with a Megatech License to turn it off entirely. There are more threads about this on the Forum, but you can begin by checking out that thread started by Deanna here:
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ght=DESS+AGAIN
Good Luck! :cheers:
Ps: this does serve to remind me of yet another reason that I'm glad that I'm still riding a 2013 RT with the revvier motor and the DESS that just works without any risk of stranding me a long way from home!! :ohyea:
:agree: 100% :2thumbs:
Peter - isn't there a place in Oz that flashes the ECU that can also disable DESS?
HI Jdr00ejr,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdr00ejr
My previous Spyder was a 2014 RTS-SE6 (Sold it last year) and when I had that Spyder, I got the following Problem Intermittently - the ignition key was not recognized, causing the unit not to start. The D.E.S.S ERROR message was displayed in the Cluster.
Solution: Replace the D.E.S.S. Module. Program the keys using B.U.D.S module the problem reoccurs, update the previously opened BOSSWEB Case or Open a BOSSWEB Case and report this situation.
Technical Explanation: When the D.E.S.S. module sends its signal to the antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna is too strong and the key chip is SATURATED. The saturation changes the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S. module causing a bad lecture of the key chip.
They (BRP) had cases where a cell phone or magnetic card placed near the ignition switch caused this. This included any devices that may emit some type of frequency. However, when I had my previous Spyder I did not carry my cell phone or any other electronic devices or credit cards in/or near the glove box, which was near the ignition switch. I carried my cell phone etc. in the trunk all the time. *****
Deanna
There is such a place Freddy, and I sent that info to Latrappe by PM. ;) :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy
I had my DESS module re-placed on my 14 RT ..... The BRP Techs that did the work .... DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO MY KEYS ..... Also the CELL PHONE and /or MAGNETIC CARD thing was a S.W.AG. Theory pushed by BRP because they had no idea what was causing this ..... Mike :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna777
Hi Guys, Quick update the spare key is now showing bad key as well :gaah: I have checked the battery voltages and it's all good, 12.58 volts with the ignition on as well as off, could not start the engine to test that one.
When I got the bike running, :yes: I found turn the bike on push the key down like you are going to remove the rear seat (F3S) let it up and start the bike, well that worked, I will be bringing it to one of the local places up here, the mechanic there has dealt with it numerous times. Will keep you all posted.
After watching the guy that moved the sensor ring up a little, I was wondering if pushing the key in would not do the same thing? You have answered that question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
Thank you all for the help and kind words, DESS has been fixed back to riding my.:spyder2: again.
:clap::clap::clap:, and what did they do to fix it ????? ....Mike :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrappe
Hello guys, they worked on a module that controls the DESS, on the :spyder:
I hope you have it fixed for good!!:2thumbs: