Proper Oil Level Verification Procedure on 1330-engined Spyders

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Originally Posted by tigerdr

Why make it simple when you can do that complicated. [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]

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My '01 Sportster used the same procedure, couldn't get an accurate reading until it warmed up.

Thanks Steve! :2thumbs:

Thanks.....now what about the dipstick reading? do we go from a different position or are they accurate as they are?

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Originally Posted by BRPcare

With 3 scavenge pumps and 1 pressure pump, the longer idle time allows the scavenge pumps to stabilize the quantity of oil returned in the reservoir for a more accurate

• SE6: Engine oil, filter replacement: 4.7L (5 US qt)
• SE6: Engine oil, filter & HCM surface filter replacement: 4.9L (5.2 US qt)
• SM6: Engine oil, filter replacement: 4.5L (4.8 US qt)

From the operation's guide, the break in for service is 3000 miles. Other maintenance intervals are every 9300 MI or 1 year - whichever comes first. In other words, the first time the unit has its service done the unit will have 3000 miles. Then, the first regular maintenance + next oil change will be at 12300 miles (9300 miles after the initial service). Afterwards, every 9300 miles should continue to be the norm.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

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So which engine is in the 2014 Spyder RT LT? and how much oil does it take?

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Originally Posted by OwnerOfHarriet

So which engine is in the 2014 Spyder RT LT? and how much oil does it take?

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This entire thread is speaking to the 1330 CC ACE motor which is in the 2014 RT Ltd.

For those asking about a new dip stick for the 1330 ACE motor, don't think a new or different dip stick is needed. IMO if you follow the oil checking procedures detailed by Steve in this thread the dip stick will register full or near full with 5 quarts of oil on-board.

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Originally Posted by gypsy_100

The normal operating temp is fine, and not unlike the V-twin. It's the 10-minute idle after the engine is at normal operating temp that seems a bit much. Are you saying that if you come in off a hot run, let it idle for a minute or so to stabilize things, and then take the reading you will be in error? I know that's what you are saying but I have to ask again. Just don't comprehend that.

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It's easy to comprehend. The BRP design engineers get paid by the hour.

It's like FORD products. You need a box full of "special tools" to work on their cars. Those design engineers go out and party their brains out and then design a bunch of tools. Then they take those tools and build a car with them:joke:
Ron

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Originally Posted by zbunker

It's easy to comprehend. The BRP design engineers get paid by the hour.

It's like FORD products. You need a box full of "special tools" to work on their cars. Those design engineers go out and party their brains out and then design a bunch of tools. Then they take those tools and build a car with them:joke:
Ron

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Have a buddy working for GM in Flint, MI.. That is his exact job. Make the tools that are needed to work on the vehicles. :popcorn: Tom :trike:

I like special tools...[emoji106]

I know from experience with older Harleys that when they have sat for awhile, the oil can leak past the check valve and into the engine. If you checked the oil in the tank it would be low, which is why you check it after you run it for a while to pump the oil back into the tank. I don't know if this is the reason for BRP's oil check procedure but it sounds like it.

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Originally Posted by BRPcare

With 3 scavenge pumps and 1 pressure pump, the longer idle time allows the scavenge pumps to stabilize the quantity of oil returned in the reservoir for a more accurate

• SE6: Engine oil, filter replacement: 4.7L (5 US qt)
• SE6: Engine oil, filter & HCM surface filter replacement: 4.9L (5.2 US qt)
• SM6: Engine oil, filter replacement: 4.5L (4.8 US qt)

From the operation's guide, the break in for service is 3000 miles. Other maintenance intervals are every 9300 MI or 1 year - whichever comes first. In other words, the first time the unit has its service done the unit will have 3000 miles. Then, the first regular maintenance + next oil change will be at 12300 miles (9300 miles after the initial service). Afterwards, every 9300 miles should continue to be the norm.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

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Steve,
Your posts have always been welcome.
I recently changed the oil and filter on my ride with the BRP kit and added the 5 US qts that you recommended.
I do this so I will know my machine and because I enjoy the experience and like saving some bucks. And I did save $ on the service check because they did not have to charge the labor. Thank goodness I do not have to make a living wrenching. I would starve because I am so slow.

I took the RT to the dealer yesterday for the 3000 check and they added oil because it was low they said. The service writer was not interesting in me emailing your post to them because they only go by the manual.

So now, I am confused. Is there a change to the manual that this dealership has not received or has not posted to their manual? I would be willing to walk that piece of paper into the service department.
Thanks
Steve S

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Originally Posted by BRPcare

Hi everyone,
There have been some questions on the right way for checking your oil on the 1330 engine. Below is the correct procedure:

Given the oil system design of the 1330 engine, oil level verification must be done under specific conditions which can influence the quantity of measurable oil in the engine.

These conditions are:

• Engine oil temperature must be between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F) which is considered as being the engine's normal operating temperature. Don't mistake coolant temperature for engine oil temperature! Coolant will heat up faster than the engine oil.
• Engine oil temperature is crucial since its volume changes based on temperature; that's enough to affect the measurable level.
• Engine must idle 10 minutes. The 1330 engine is a dry sump design with 3 scavenge pumps and 1 pressure pump, 10 minutes of idle time allows the scavenge pumps to stabilize the quantity of oil returned.

Complete oil level verification procedure:

1. Bring engine to operating temperature.
2. Ensure vehicle is on a level surface.
3. Allow engine to idle for 10 minutes.
4. Stop the engine.
5. Within 2 minutes of stopping the engine:
   
   1. Remove and wipe the dipstick clean.
   2. Insert dipstick and completely screw it in.
   3. Remove dipstick and read oil level on dipstick.
   
   
6. Adjust level as necessary without overfilling.

Tips and Tricks:

Here are 2 ways the crucial criteria can be reached:

• An engine started cold (20°C or 68°F) will take approximately 25 minutes to reach oil level verification criteria (oil temperature and idle time). Oil level can be reliably verified when the radiator fans have cycled ON twice,

or

• The unit can be taken on a 15 km (9 mile) drive (normal riding) or a 6 km (4 mile) drive in 1st gear at 50 km/h (30 mph) which is approx at 4400 rpm THEN idled until the radiator fans have cycled ON twice.

When performing an oil change on a cold engine, the above recommendations must be done to reach oil level verification criteria. When performing an oil change on a hot engine, the new oil will heat up faster since the engine is hot therefore letting the engine idle until 10 minutes or until the radiator fans have cycled ON twice indicates the oil level can be verified.
We thus recommend checking the oil level at the end of a decent ride following the complete oil level verification procedure as outlined above.

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Hi,
One would think there would be a better way to check the oil level. Just imagine you come home from an all day into the late evening ride. The next day, you see a puddle of oil under the machine. A closer inspection reveals a slight trail of oil down the drive way and into the road. Now you have no idea how long and how much the machine has been leaking.
Would you take the machine on the "correct procedure" run to find out that there is no oil in the machine:yikes: It kinda stinks that there isn't a way to determine oil levels on a cold engine.
Ron

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Originally Posted by DrewNJ

I like special tools...[emoji106]

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My special tools consist of a pair vise grips and a hammer...........
And can't forget the duct tape and zip ties :joke:

I check my tires before a ride . . . and my oil at the end of a ride. Tires are cold and engine is warm, that way . . .

I appreciate that BRP care has taken the time to help us out.

Just a couple of comments. This is a long thread, so I may be duplicating what other posters have already said.

There needs to be a "Go-NoGo" oil level when the bike is cold. If you have a low oil level, do you really want to go out for a ride, and then let the engine idle for 10 long minutes before you find out about it ? Couldn't you potentially damage the engine this way ?

I'd like to see a chart that identifies the accuracy at the specific time. Something like this:

Cold: 95% accurate
Hot No Idle: 97% accurate
Hot 1 min Idle 98% accurate
Hot 5 min idle 99% accurate
Hot 10 min idle 100% accurate.

These are my own numbers that I've made up as an example. DO NOT FOLLOW THIS CHART.

It just seems too damn complicated to perform an incredibly simple task, that if inaccurate, could cause major damage.

And, what if someone were to err on the side of caution by filling up the oil reservoir to the fill point when cold. This would potentially add more than the specified amount of oil.
What happens ? Do you merely waste a few ounces of oil, or does something bad occur.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong. I'm sure somebody on this forum will let me knnow if I am.

Thanks BRP Care for your clearing up the oil dilemma. Great Information !
Please keep giving us tips and tricks !

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Originally Posted by sscheuer47

Steve,
Your posts have always been welcome.
I recently changed the oil and filter on my ride with the BRP kit and added the 5 US qts that you recommended.
I do this so I will know my machine and because I enjoy the experience and like saving some bucks. And I did save $ on the service check because they did not have to charge the labor. Thank goodness I do not have to make a living wrenching. I would starve because I am so slow.

I took the RT to the dealer yesterday for the 3000 check and they added oil because it was low they said. The service writer was not interesting in me emailing your post to them because they only go by the manual.

So now, I am confused. Is there a change to the manual that this dealership has not received or has not posted to their manual? I would be willing to walk that piece of paper into the service department.
Thanks
Steve S

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sscheuer47, there was a bulletin or TST that BRP sent out to dealers on the change in quantity. They should have been aware of it.

I agree that the oil level check on the Spyder is way more complicated than it ought to be. This includes both engine models 990 series and 1330. Mine is a 2010 RTS SM5. It is my understanding, as a new Spyder owner, that the 990 v-twin uses some oil by design. But when I checked the oil level per manual instructions the level still showed to the full mark after I put on about 1000 miles. This leads me to conclude that either my bike uses no oil......or the bike was overfilled when the dealer serviced the bike before I bought it......or I didn't do the procedure right.

Since EVERYTHING is computerized on this wonderful machine, why not an oil level sensor to let us know in real time that the level is in the safe zone. When it's a quart low, an "Add Oil" message is displayed. This way there will be no need to pull off a tupperware panel, no dip stick to unscrew, no dip stick o-ring to lose, no time frame to stay within, etc.

Just a thought and probably completely unhelpful.

It's actually nowhere near as tough or complicated as you say it is: it's just different!
Once you've done it a couple of times; it'll seem perfectly natural! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by jaapkroes

I agree that the oil level check on the Spyder is way more complicated than it ought to be. This includes both engine models 990 series and 1330. Mine is a 2010 RTS SM5. It is my understanding, as a new Spyder owner, that the 990 v-twin uses some oil by design. But when I checked the oil level per manual instructions the level still showed to the full mark after I put on about 1000 miles. This leads me to conclude that either my bike uses no oil......or the bike was overfilled when the dealer serviced the bike before I bought it......or I didn't do the procedure right.

Since EVERYTHING is computerized on this wonderful machine, why not an oil level sensor to let us know in real time that the level is in the safe zone. When it's a quart low, an "Add Oil" message is displayed. This way there will be no need to pull off a tupperware panel, no dip stick to unscrew, no dip stick o-ring to lose, no time frame to stay within, etc.

Just a thought and probably completely unhelpful.

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It's really not that complicated. Either engine, go for a ride and when you get home park on the level and let the bike idle while you remove your gear. Shut it off, get a rag and check it.

I have 2 Spyders with the 1330, one with 44k and the other with 13k, and neither have ever used a drop of oil.
I drain the oil and change the filter then add 5 qts of oil and don't worry about it.

The oil level check procedure is nearly exactly the same as every other dry sump engine I have ever owned, car or bike. BRP has done nothing really different here. Its the nature of the beast.

JC,
Could you explain the reasoning behind letting the bike idle for about a half a minute; before checking the oil level?

Dry sump engines do not keep the oil in the bottom of the crankcase while running. The oil is pumped out to an outboard tank. When the engines stops, the oil already in the engine does drain down to the crankcase, and some eventually finds its way back as the engine cools. Its not in the tank until you start it back up. Running the engine also warms the oil which expands at it heats.

Allowing the engine to warm and then shutting it down, check oil level within 60 seconds while the oil level is still where it was while running.

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Originally Posted by jaapkroes

I

Since EVERYTHING is computerized on this wonderful machine, why not an oil level sensor to let us know in real time that the level is in the safe zone. When it's a quart low, an "Add Oil" message is displayed. This way there will be no need to pull off a tupperware panel, no dip stick to unscrew, no dip stick o-ring to lose, no time frame to stay within, etc.

Just a thought and probably completely unhelpful.

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I too wonder why ALL new vehicles don't have electronic oil level sensors, but my guess is so they can keep the blame on the owner should the engine run dry instead of trusting their sensor.

Another nice thing about the Tesla..... no oil checks needed.... ;-)