The ST ride and handling.

So, I have now riden about a thousand miles this past week. I feel like I am fairly in tune with the ride and handling, but here is what I have noticed and I have questions.

1. I understand that this is different from my motorcycle and the ST is more of a sports bike type ride but I feel every crevice of the road. Is this normal?

2. I feel like I am all over the road and every little dip or crevice, cause a need for correction. I have loosened my grip and this helps some. On a nice highway, the bike tracks smoothly and is a pleasure to ride. I feel comfortable at 65 and 70. However I live in the country and like to travel the back roads. This makes me feel like I am doing a lot of work to ride.

3. Steering seems to be really touchy. Is this normal? Small corrections= sudden, big changes. I also test road a RT and it was completely different than the ST. The RT was like a Cadillac and the ST was like a Mazda RX- 7. Should it be that way?

sorry for the mistakes. I posted this from my phone while out of town.

Tell us what year bike you have. Have there been any mods? What do you weight. These all matter before anyone can give you any good responses. I ride a 13 ST limited, but don't know what to tell you because I don't know anything about you/your ride.

Jerry

I have a 2013 ST. As far as I know, there are no mods. I am 6’ tall and weigh 250. The bike has 9800 miles on it. Most of that was in and around Dallas TX so I would not think that the riding has been to aggressive. I have been riding motorcycle for 40 years and Spyders for one week.

From your discription it would seem you are running too much air in the tires. I run 17 lbs in the front and 27 lbs in the rear. Finding the best pressure is tricky and time consuming but once you find it ... your off and running...:ohyea:

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Originally Posted by Chupaca

From your discription it would seem you are running too much air in the tires. I run 17 lbs in the front and 27 lbs in the rear. Finding the best pressure is tricky and time consuming but once you find it ... your off and running...:ohyea:

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:2thumbs: That & getting Squared away with laser alignment :firstplace: Be glad your on Texas roads rather than the :barf:we got next door to you.

I need to check again but I believe I have 17 in the front and 27 in the rear.

Relax, laser alignment and crank up the front spring preload. The factory front springs are pretty weak. We also added the BajaRon sway bar and links to ours. It handles great now!

My thoughts -
first, tyre pressures
second, laser alignment - mine (13st) was so far out, it was a new machine afterward. Nb not the brp alignment - forget about that - get laser aligned - they will re-centre the steering sensor after the laser align.
third, if you're still not happy, think about bajaron sway bar and links (highly recommend).... But I think laser alignment will make a huge initial difference.

Seems we're all on the same track ... Must be right ;)

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Originally Posted by Mahaflac

I have been riding motorcycle for 40 years and Spyders for one week.

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At this point, this is probably your biggest issue. Though the Spyder's factory installed handling is less than ideal. The entire geometry and steering characteristics are, of course, completely different from 2 wheels in ways that it takes your brain awhile to adjust to.

1- On 2 wheels it takes a long time between handlebar/lean input and actual change of direction. Your brain learns to compensate for this delay between input and reaction of the motorcycle so that you get the impression that it is a quick response. But it is not.

This delay is completely eliminated on the Spyder. Any input to the handlebars, no matter how small, produces an equal and instant response in steering direction. Your 2 wheel brain, still attempting to compensate for the now, non existent time delay, interprets this as twitchyness without any reason because you probably don't think you did anything to cause it. This gives you a feeling of lack of control. The tendency is to stiff arm the handlebars in an attempt to settle things down. Sounds like you are past this typical error which only serves to worsen the situation. Because every tiny handle bar input is instantly translated to movement on the road surface.

2. When you go into a turn on 2 wheels, everything is in centrifugal balance which keeps you planted firmly in the seat. The only adjustment needed is if the radius or the crown angle of the road changes.

With the Spyder in stock configuration. The suspension tends to enter a turn with under-steer. But as the Spyder leans (too much, especially with taller, heavier riders or 2-up) you go into an over-steer condition. Which you then have to adjust for. As you make this adjustment it unloads the suspension enough to where the Spyder again goes into an under-steer condition. Which you then have to adjust for again. Depending on the turn and your speed, this oscillation usually takes 3 adjustments before the Spyder settles down.

This can be subtitle enough to where some riders don't notice it. But if you are riding in twisty country, adding 2 or 3 additional handlebar adjustments in every turn can really wear you out. And it can tend to heat up your power steering unit as well.

3. On 2 wheels you do not feel any of the left/right road anomalies because you have no left/right road contact.

With the Spyder, you not only have left/right road contact. The distance between the front wheels it is quite narrow. So any difference in road surface between the 2 wheels is magnified. A car, with a much wider stance, tends to minimize these road anomalies. Your 2 wheeled brain tells you that this is all wrong. It's just something that you get used to over time.

I would say you're doing quite well at this point. If you had zero 2 wheel experience you would not be having most of the misgivings that you are experiencing during your brain-retraining period. And there are some good suggestions of ways to improve the handling of your Spyder in the previous posts.

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Originally Posted by Mahaflac

Should it be that way?

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NO. I have an RT and it does exactly the things that you describe.

The overall geometry is different than 2 wheels......and the ride will never be what your body has trained itself to do when riding.

But it can get better. More time in the saddle will "retrain" you.
I'm at 3000 miles now and it improves a bit with every ride.
10 rides of 10 miles each will help more than 100 miles all at one time.

But some roads (many of them in Florida) still feel funny; some downright scary when they pitch to the left and then to the right when you are going straight.

Practice looking farther down the road.....along with that lighter grip.
Make sure you have enough air in your tires. I've found that a few extra pounds helps some because it decreases the sidewall flex.
So does running your rear suspension at it's lowest setting where it doesn't bottom out.

There are about a million posts on here about this.
The "recommendations" include aftermarket sway bar, laser alignment, different springs and shocks and different tires.
Like you, I find that there is no problem on a good road......unless maybe there is a STRONG gusty cross wind.....so I doubt that I will be doing any of those things.....except maybe better tires sometime later.

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Originally Posted by Easy Rider

There are about a million posts on here about this.
The "recommendations" include aftermarket sway bar, laser alignment, different springs and shocks and different tires.
Like you, I find that there is no problem on a good road......unless maybe there is a STRONG gusty cross wind.....so I doubt that I will be doing any of those things.....except maybe better tires sometime later.

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This paragraph makes really no sense. How can you rule those things out as problems if you haven't done any of them but are still having handling problems with your "RT"? I can tell you for a fact that, laser alignment, sway bar and increasing front spring preload drastically improved the handling of our "ST". Yes, riding time helps there's no question but don't rule out there being other issues. The shop that did our laser alignment told us our original alignment was horribly off.

To the OP, there's no doubt I'd ride your ST a while before I started throwing things at it. We rode ours for a few thousand before we looked for improvements.

My friend has a 2013 ST and I know a few others with ST's and they installed the BaJa Ron swaybar and the Elka front shocks To stop the quirkiness. I would start with the swaybar since it is the cheaper of the 2 options then go with the elkas if you want to fine tune it more.

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Originally Posted by GearHd

This paragraph makes really no sense. How can you rule those things out as problems if you haven't done any of them but are still having handling problems with your "RT"?

To the OP, there's no doubt I'd ride your ST a while before I started throwing things at it. We rode ours for a few thousand before we looked for improvements.

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Because the apparent problems are not "all the time" and I don't like throwing money at a guess.

The second sentence above is really what I was trying to convey......along with upping the air pressure on the original crap tires a bit.

Most of the time, I can correlate the uneasy feel with washboard roads or gusty side winds.

That's like saying your brakes are fine until you need to stop. But hey, whatever works for each individual is all that matters.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. BajaRon, Thank you for your post. This really makes since to me coming from two wheels. I have really tried to not let my two wheel experience interfere too much. However, there is no way for it not interfere. I have spent too much time becoming and accomplished 2 wheel rider. I have spent many hours working on counter steering and other techniques to aid with accident avoidance. There is no way to just do away with what my brain has learned being on two wheels.

I am really working on the Spyder experience and I am dedicated to giving this a chance. There are many great tips to start with. I don't have money to make many adjustments at this point. I was unaware of making adjustments to the shocks but I will look into this. I am going to re-check air pressure and give it more time to become comfortable before throwing money at solutions that may just be normal.

I already enjoy the experience. Looking forward to many miles and can wait to make my first long trip on it. Coming soon.

Honestly, I think if you're going to spend any money at all I think it should be on a laser alignment. I think we spent about $130 to have it done. You hate to be trying to adapt to something that isn't right. Coming from an ex go kart racer, proper toe/alignment is huge.

Other than that, just get out and ride it. Thankfully I came from an ATV and snowmobile background so adapting was simple even while still riding my motorcycle.

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Originally Posted by Mahaflac

Thanks to everyone who has responded. BajaRon, Thank you for your post. This really makes since to me coming from two wheels. I have really tried to not let my two wheel experience interfere too much. However, there is no way for it not interfere. I have spent too much time becoming and accomplished 2 wheel rider. I have spent many hours working on counter steering and other techniques to aid with accident avoidance. There is no way to just do away with what my brain has learned being on two wheels.

I am really working on the Spyder experience and I am dedicated to giving this a chance. There are many great tips to start with. I don't have money to make many adjustments at this point. I was unaware of making adjustments to the shocks but I will look into this. I am going to re-check air pressure and give it more time to become comfortable before throwing money at solutions that may just be normal.

I already enjoy the experience. Looking forward to many miles and can wait to make my first long trip on it. Coming soon.

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A lot of 2 wheel skills you've learned will transfer over to the Spyder and are highly beneficial. Some 2 wheel skills are actually detrimental. I found that I can go from my Spyder to 2 wheels with no problem after learning how to ride the Spyder. The only thing that bothered me about the Spyder and transitioning back and forth was the absence of a front brake lever. Took me some time to get good at using the front brake on 2 wheels and I didn't want to lose that. So I put a front brake on my Spyder. It's very handy. Especially in traffic where I want to put my feet on the highway pegs. And it keeps my front brake habits in good stead.

You've got the right attitude and I think you'll do fine. Some 2 wheel veterans ride the Spyder for a short time, label it 'Unstable' and 'Twitchy' and never go back. Once you get the hang of it you realize that it was YOU that was 'Twitchy' making the Spyder feel 'Unstable'. I think you'll find that the Spyder is one of the most stable, controllable, safe and fun road machines you've ever ridden.

There is Stock Configuration 'Normal'. And there is Upgraded Suspension 'Normal'. If you want to continue being satisfied with the former. Do not ever ride a Spyder set up for the latter. They are two very different machines.

Well, I sounds like you took the leap. Hope you got or will soon get the panel updates. Check air pressure, stiffen the front shocks if adjustable. Enjoy!

Bajaron, I'd like to follow up on your comment about installing a "front" brake on your Spyder. Please explain what you did. I miss the front brake if only for a rest for my fingers. Otherwise, I find myself gripping the throttle to tightly. Only about 2000 miles on my new to my ST. Send me a PM if you'd rather not post in this thread. Thanks, John

The real answer to your question is your comment "i have been riding the spyder about a week" Most new spyder riders have the same problem. Put about 1000 miles or more on it before you do any changes.

I have an Rt and a ST and i much prefer to ride the ST.

I also prefer riding my ST over my fiance's RT. I can push mine more and have more fun in the twisties. I do have to admit for straight up comfort her's is more comfortable.

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Originally Posted by nwrider

Bajaron, I'd like to follow up on your comment about installing a "front" brake on your Spyder. Please explain what you did. I miss the front brake if only for a rest for my fingers. Otherwise, I find myself gripping the throttle to tightly. Only about 2000 miles on my new to my ST. Send me a PM if you'd rather not post in this thread. Thanks, John

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Lamont and I both wanted hand brakes. We both still ride 2 wheels and it takes a bit of training to hone your front brake skills and reflexes. We didn't want to lose that by riding the Spyder. Lamont 'engineered' a system that, though not perfect, satisfied our needs.

He used a clutch lever and cable off of a Suzuki M109R that worked great. We turned the clutch lever over to function as a brake lever. Then we tinkered with a simple linkage assembly which mated the other end of the clutch cable to the existing master cylinder. I think the entire project cost us about $100.00 in parts.

We don't have the stopping power of the foot actuated brake lever. But it is still substantial and comes in very handy. Especially if you have highway pegs or floorboards where your foot is not always directly over the brake peddle.

Your issues with the Spyder handling and movement on uneven road surfaces is typical. Your brain will, eventually, compensate for these things and you'll no longer suffer from over sensitivity to them. Still, a true ROLO system laser alignment is highly recommended. And a sway bar and or shock upgrade will also greatly improve handling.

Have a great riding season!

Relax and don't over think it...read the do's and don't section also.

My take...first it will take you more than 1k miles to figure this machine out, I had and advantage because I rode motorcycle for my whole life but also 4 wheeler which ride the same as the spyder.


Things to remember like everyone has said, you have more contract with the road so you wil be effected by the road more, you need to stay loose with hand grip, shoulders and arms..if you still arm it in any way you will effect the steering, get a lazer alignment, change tires pressure to make yourself comfy, swar bar and adjustable shock can and do help.

The saying " slow is smooth and smooth is fast" is exact on these machines...if not smooth the nanny or uneasy rider will limit your fun and enjoyment with the ride....learn clean lines in turns and float with the machine and you will be good

ENJOY!

Attached is a copy of the Do's and Don'ts. Don't see where anyone has mentioned it. If so, Sorry.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...-Spyder-owners

The :spyder2: is very sensitive to input. Don't use what we call the
"death grip" when riding. A light input on the bars is better than white knuckle riding. Heavy input gives the :ani29: a feel as though it has a mind of its own.

I tell people to pretend there are eggs between the palm of your hand. Don't break the eggs. Use a gentle push/pull on the hand grips.

Lean slightly into turns, plant your foot on the floorboards/pegs on the outside of the turn. You should enter turns at a speed where you do not have to apply brake to slow down. Slight acceleration through the turn will help. Think racing car. Enter from the inside and head towards the outside. Once mastered you can easily take turns at 20+ posted without going over the center line. If you are over the line, you are outdriving your abilities. The "g" forces will be noticeably less.

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Originally Posted by akspyderman

Attached is a copy of the Do's and Don'ts. Don't see where anyone has mentioned it. If so, Sorry.

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Does that include looking farther down the road ??

Every time I force myself to do that (old habits are hard to break) I find that it helps a LOT.

Even in my motorhome.....which is really sensitive to side winds.