Questions for the experts - not the wannabes at my dealership

Printable View

06-08-2018, 12:45 PM
Pallidus Aranea

Questions for the experts - not the wannabes at my dealership

Gurus and fellow Ryders,

I have had my 2018 RTL about a month now. I have right a 1000 miles on it. I also really love the Spyder.

What I do not love is my dealer / service center (who shall remain nameless). Their "Master Technician" is a nice guy but seems technically clueless. I am hoping that you folks can provide me some information that either changes my mind and instills confidence in them or you confirm that I am not crazy and what I am about to say is are issues.

Problem 1 - I have previously asked about the ryde making a squeaking noise (something reminiscent of a bad spring in an old screen door) when you get on the bike, stand on a running board or make any significant weight transfer on the rear. I have heard that "it makes noise and that is 'normal'." That much squeaking isn't normal in anything that is properly engineered and constructed. I will admit that I have little understanding of the air-leveling system / rear shock setup other than technical diagrams. I have not torn into it.

On the 2018 RTL (1) does the air-leveling system really have six inches of adjustment / travel? I know it is supposedly all automatic based on payload. (2) How can I tell it's actually working? I have never felt / noticed a change in ride height - even two up (and yes I know that is the purpose - to re-level the ryde). (3) Has anyone else experienced similar issues?

Problem 2 - The dreaded harmonic from somewhere. I have read various postings about vibrations. Some from the poor engine mounting, some from belt tension, others more mired in mystery. At 3600 - 3850 RPM in all gears I have something going on - all I can call it is a harmonic vibration. I have had in the bike in neutral and rev'd through the range ... and voila, no vibration from the engine. Can I assume that this is poor belt tension or is this another one of those "normal" things.

Thanks in advance for your knowledge, suggestions and humor.
06-08-2018, 01:13 PM
BajaRon

I don't claim to be any kind of 'Expert' so we don't need to go there. But I will throw my 2 cents at this.

First. There isn't enough information to really give you some solid answers. But even if you provided everything possible, it would probably still be difficult to accurately diagnose these things without being able to run the Spyder myself.

On the 1st issue, it seems that you're centered on the rear air adjust shock as the culprit. So I assume the squeak is definitely coming from the rear? Shock springs will many times make some spring noise as they move. Especially rear springs. This may be normal unless it is excessive. .

On the 2nd issue. A harmonic vibration that is engine specific and not speed specific is not going to involve the drive belt. It is somewhat interesting that you are not able to duplicate it sitting still. But this simply means that the issue is engine under load specific. It may well have something to do with worn engine mount isolator bushings.

How bad is the vibration? Some people are very sensitive. Especially those who come from a non-motorcycle background. Having ridden both a BSA 441 Victor and a Triumph 650 Bonneville. I am not so concerned about a little vibration here or there.

Give us a bit more information and we can throw some more spaghetti against the wall and see if any of it sticks! :ohyea:
06-08-2018, 01:21 PM
RinconRyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by BajaRon

How bad is the vibration? Some people are very sensitive. Especially those who come from a non-motorcycle background. Having ridden both a BSA 441 Victor and a Triumph 650 Bonneville. I am not so concerned about a little vibration here or there.

m-m-m-m-m-m-me e-e-e-e-e-e-e-either! :)
06-08-2018, 01:27 PM
BLUEKNIGHT911

bad vibes

Quote:

Originally Posted by BajaRon

I don't claim to be any kind of 'Expert' so we don't need to go there. But I will throw my 2 cents at this.

First. There isn't enough information to really give you some solid answers. But even if you provided everything possible, it would probably still be difficult to accurately diagnose these things without being able to run the Spyder myself.

On the 1st issue, it seems that you're centered on the rear air adjust shock as the culprit. So I assume the squeak is definitely coming from the rear? Shock springs will many times make some spring noise as they move. Especially rear springs. This may be normal unless it is excessive. .

On the 2nd issue. A harmonic vibration that is engine specific and not speed specific is not going to involve the drive belt. It is somewhat interesting that you are not able to duplicate it sitting still. But this simply means that the issue is engine under load specific. It may well have something to do with worn engine mount isolator bushings.

How bad is the vibration? Some people are very sensitive. Especially those who come from a non-motorcycle background. Having ridden both a BSA 441 Victor and a Triumph 650 Bonneville. I am not so concerned about a little vibration here or there.

Give us a bit more information and we can throw some more spaghetti against the wall and see if any of it sticks! :ohyea:

:agree: .....But the vibes He mentioned has to be while it's moving..... " He's getting it IN ALL GEARS " so he's got to be moving......... An answer may be the drive tension ....IMHO BRP sets that belt way to high for tension .... I lowered mine to around 160 lbs and I have no VIBES ( using the KritKit II gauge ) PS Ron, above sells them at a good price ..... Mike :thumbup::thumbup: ..........PS - I NEVER take any of my Spyders for work to be done - unless it's a Warranty claim ...I don't trust them ......good luck :thumbup:
06-08-2018, 02:16 PM
SteveLaoyster

I finally noticed a vibration on my spyder at around 70mph. The belt of course. Haven't decided to change the tension yet.

When I read the part about the squeak I immediately remembered someone on here having loose bolts on their sway bar linkage. Just another possible area that needs attention.
06-08-2018, 02:38 PM
Joel The Biker

THE SQUEEK

I think I can answer that one for sure. I had a squeek when I got on my spyder. As soon as I stepped on the floorboard..."SQUEEEEEK". I pulled the side panel and found it was coming from a frame mount near the floorboard. I loosened the bolts and lubed it and retightened. Lasted about a year and I just noticed a little squeek coming back.

As for the vibrations, some of it can be attributed to a different type of bike. All motorcycles have their own little vibrations and noises. They become less noticeable the longer you own the bike. Its possible that is all it is, but could be belt tension too high or belt alignment. These long drive belts seems to be the biggest culprit of weird vibrations. There are some simple things to try, like adding Roadster Renovations vibration damper.

Anyway, congrats on the new ride. I am sure it will be a great ride. Lots of good advice from the members on here.
06-08-2018, 03:24 PM
stevencovert

2 Attachment(s)

No expert either - but serious DIY'er

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pallidus Aranea

Gurus and fellow Ryders,

I have had my 2018 RTL about a month now. I have right a 1000 miles on it. I also really love the Spyder.

What I do not love is my dealer / service center (who shall remain nameless). Their "Master Technician" is a nice guy but seems technically clueless. I am hoping that you folks can provide me some information that either changes my mind and instills confidence in them or you confirm that I am not crazy and what I am about to say is are issues.

Problem 1 - I have previously asked about the ryde making a squeaking noise (something reminiscent of a bad spring in an old screen door) when you get on the bike, stand on a running board or make any significant weight transfer on the rear. I have heard that "it makes noise and that is 'normal'." That much squeaking isn't normal in anything that is properly engineered and constructed. I will admit that I have little understanding of the air-leveling system / rear shock setup other than technical diagrams. I have not torn into it.

On the 2018 RTL (1) does the air-leveling system really have six inches of adjustment / travel? I know it is supposedly all automatic based on payload. (2) How can I tell it's actually working? I have never felt / noticed a change in ride height - even two up (and yes I know that is the purpose - to re-level the ryde). (3) Has anyone else experienced similar issues?

Problem 2 - The dreaded harmonic from somewhere. I have read various postings about vibrations. Some from the poor engine mounting, some from belt tension, others more mired in mystery. At 3600 - 3850 RPM in all gears I have something going on - all I can call it is a harmonic vibration. I have had in the bike in neutral and rev'd through the range ... and voila, no vibration from the engine. Can I assume that this is poor belt tension or is this another one of those "normal" things.

Thanks in advance for your knowledge, suggestions and humor.

Probably the rear shock? My new RTS makes no noise whatsoever getting on/off. That's the only thing I can think of that moves. If so not a big deal. My wifes older Spyder - oh yeah. Creaks and groans like my old body!! :yikes:

Air leveling: Not sure about 6" but yes. At night, set it to maximum. Look at where your headlights' line is, where they end. Then drop it to minimum. THe headlights range changes a LOT. So loading it up, adding a trailer, riding two up, etc. does change the level a bit, but not a lot. I gauge the "levelness" based on a good headlight reach. You can also definitely feel it on your butt at the extremes. During the day I usually keep it on the high side for a bit more low back support from the seat (I can feel it).

Harmonics: Doc Humpries Belt Tensioner. Sponsor on the site here. Get one. I had vibration at certain speeds. Around 40ish then again at around 60ish MPH. All gone now. Very easy install, good video. This belt issue is "normal". Really long belts without support cannot help but vibrate a bit.

For first farkles I'd visit Pierre over at canamspyderaccessories.com. I got the rear brake LED kit. Really adds a lot of visibility! And that means safer. Assuming the 2018 body panels haven't changed of course! Well not safer against texters... :banghead:. I also got the bumpskid with LED's, and from the front you can be seen in some thick fog! I also put ground effect white LED strips in the groove, and and the bottom center frame. Very good visibility. Again hopefully the 2018 is the same.

A also sprung for the high mount LED bar that fits right into the curvature of the trunk. When pulling a trailer or just wanting more safety. I added the flasher option.

Enjoy your new Ryde!

Steve
06-09-2018, 08:13 AM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

:agree: .....But the vibes He mentioned has to be while it's moving..... " He's getting it IN ALL GEARS " so he's got to be moving......... An answer may be the drive tension ....IMHO BRP sets that belt way to high for tension .... I lowered mine to around 160 lbs and I have no VIBES ( using the KritKit II gauge ) PS Ron, above sells them at a good price ..... Mike :thumbup::thumbup: ..........PS - I NEVER take any of my Spyders for work to be done - unless it's a Warranty claim ...I don't trust them ......good luck :thumbup:

The OP states 'At 3600 - 3850 RPM in all gears'. The belt will be traveling at a different speed in every gear when the engine enters this problematic RPM window. My point being that for it to be belt related, the belt would have to vibrate at each different wheel RPM, exactly coinciding with the same engine RPM range. This is extremely unlikely.

I am not saying that a belt tension check and possibly dampener are not good ideas. I just don't see them as a solution to this issue. Hopefully, the OP will be able to correct the problem and let us know how it was done.
06-09-2018, 08:32 AM
Pallidus Aranea

Ron and everyone else that has replied,
Thank you very much for your expertise. It is truly great that there are folks so dedicated to their machines and willing to help.
Ron, you have very accurately described my dilemma about the vibration. The only constant is where the vibration happens in the RPM range. You also accurately point out that belt speed changes as gears change. A sane person (which I make no claim to be) would immediately think engine. I was thinking belt only because of what others have written about their vibration issues. When it comes right down to it - only happens when moving under load.

I had thought (probably incorrectly)about my “squeak when getting on” and the “3600 - 3800 RPM gremlin” being related BUT I don’t think that’s possible. I just expect things to be right with a new purchase and vibration issues and barn door squeaks piss me off. If it were 10 years old and had a few miles on it ... it would be normal. I know that the byke I rode (RTL at another dealer - wrong color) did not have either issue during the 45 minutes I spent on it. I have actually ridden it again to ensure my semi-sanity and be sure my issues aren’t “features.”

As I get more info I will keep everyone updated.
06-09-2018, 10:47 AM
Bigmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pallidus Aranea

Ron and everyone else that has replied,
Thank you very much for your expertise. It is truly great that there are folks so dedicated to their machines and willing to help.
Ron, you have very accurately described my dilemma about the vibration. The only constant is where the vibration happens in the RPM range. You also accurately point out that belt speed changes as gears change. A sane person (which I make no claim to be) would immediately think engine. I was thinking belt only because of what others have written about their vibration issues. When it comes right down to it - only happens when moving under load.

I had thought (probably incorrectly)about my “squeak when getting on” and the “3600 - 3800 RPM gremlin” being related BUT I don’t think that’s possible. I just expect things to be right with a new purchase and vibration issues and barn door squeaks piss me off. If it were 10 years old and had a few miles on it ... it would be normal. I know that the byke I rode (RTL at another dealer - wrong color) did not have either issue during the 45 minutes I spent on it. I have actually ridden it again to ensure my semi-sanity and be sure my issues aren’t “features.”

As I get more info I will keep everyone updated.

I have a 2018 RTL with 1400M. I get vibrations between 70 & 75. Below or above, no vibrations. People on this board talk about a belt tensioner. My dealer says to ignore that. As long as there is no recall on the issue, it's fine with me. Why spend more dough on something that BRP engineers, I'm sure, are aware of and feel it's no big deal? A little vibration doesn't bother me.
06-09-2018, 10:49 AM
UtahPete

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbenazeraf

I have a 2018 RTL with 1400M. I get vibrations between 70 & 75. Below or above, no vibrations. People on this board talk about a belt tensioner. My dealer says to ignore that. As long as there is no recall on the issue, it's fine with me. Why spend more dough on something that BRP engineers, I'm sure, are aware of and feel it's no big deal? A little vibration doesn't bother me.

:agree:
06-10-2018, 09:21 AM
KX5062

The belt harmonics, the vibration, is normally felt at or around the 75 MPH mark, give or take. What you're describing sounds to me like it could be a loose bolt somewhere. It doesn't have to be a major or important piece, but something loose, like a motor mounting bolt or whatever will express itself as a harmonic vibration at specific RPMs. Squeaks can also be loose fitting parts, and possibly could be related to your vibration.
06-11-2018, 06:25 PM
Kraut

Having ridden both a BSA 441 Victor and a Triumph 650 Bonneville. I am not so concerned about a little vibration here or there.

A "Thumper" vibrating? Surely you jest, Sir!
06-12-2018, 11:49 AM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraut

Having ridden both a BSA 441 Victor and a Triumph 650 Bonneville. I am not so concerned about a little vibration here or there.

A "Thumper" vibrating? Surely you jest, Sir!

My Kawasaki triple vibrated so much the mirrors were worthless at speed! :yikes:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/izzIv6Av8Cw/maxresdefault.jpg
06-12-2018, 11:55 AM
RinconRyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by BajaRon

My Kawasaki triple vibrated so much the mirrors were worthless at speed! :yikes:

Yes, but on that Kawi you didn't NEED to watch your mirrors 'cause nobody was gainin' on you! :)
06-12-2018, 05:05 PM
Tazzel

Issue 1: your just going to have to track down where the squeak is coming from. Since it is new I would see if you could get your dealer to do it. Even being clueless he should be able to track down a squeak. Your entitled to service.

Issue 2: My F3-S had vibration around 67MPH my F3-T has it around 72MPH. I have a good new tech at my dealership and when he did the 3K maintenance he told me the belt was off a little. Once he adjusted, most of the vibration went away and also I think once the belt gets warn slightly the vibration reduces. Either way, to me its not a big deal but there are, as a few have mentioned, a few aftermarket products that for some has solved this problem. You can also start rocking the throttle as you move in to that range, should get you through with less vibration
06-12-2018, 05:20 PM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by RinconRyder

Yes, but on that Kawi you didn't NEED to watch your mirrors 'cause nobody was gainin' on you! :)

Yes, you have a point. But it would have been good if I'd been able to see the flashing blue lights fading in the background from time to time! :yikes:

I did have trouble outrunning the radio signals!