SE 5 Down Shift Blip &

So, I had a new clutch installed while it was in for all the other previously mentioned repairs. (since they had it for a month)

New problem post clutch replacement.

Any manual down shift is accompanied by an engine blip, but the down shift doesn't occur in sink with the blip. Instead, it it's delayed by almost a second, sometimes with a new blip and a down shift - sometimes no secondary blip, and sometimes no downshift. Sometimes the downshift with no blip at all below 35MPH causes the rear tire to momentarily lock enough to bark(seize against the pavement).

I can give greater detail as it relates to at what RPM's and gears if needed but suffice to say this happens with any manual downshift above 4K.

Dealer tech knows of the problem(he should have noticed it on test ride - but didn't?) and was to place a phone call to BRP yesterday and call me back. I have heard nothing.

My trip to Springfield is now hinged on a quick fix to this latest problem.

If you happen to have some insight to the cause I'd be interested in hearing it.

Thanks
Jer

Being a die hard manual type I'm not familiar with the details on the semi auto. I do recall a fellow ryder having clutch work done and had issues with the springs. Seems there are different ones. Bummer know you were ready to plan your route...:mad: hope they get back to you :pray:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chupaca

Being a die hard manual type I'm not familiar with the details on the semi auto. I do recall a fellow ryder having clutch work done and had issues with the springs. Seems there are different ones. Bummer know you were ready to plan your route...:mad: hope they get back to you :pray:

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I'm thinking "springs" too. It was my first gut instinct.

My reservations are confirmed and registration paid.

Jer,
Have you tried letting the computer control handle the downshifting chores? :dontknow:
Is it still misbehaving then? :shocked:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Jer,
Have you tried letting the computer control handle the downshifting chores? :dontknow:
Is it still misbehaving then? :shocked:

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Thanks Bob but,

If I leave it to the bike to downshift. This is how it goes. Once the tach(engine) drops to about 2K it down shifts to 4th, then 2K it down shifts again to 3rd, and so on. There's no way this works for me(for numerous bike control reason - safety being one of them). The need for it to operate manually is paramount because of my riding style. I think the only time I've ever let it downshift on it's own, was my very first trip on it from Louisiana to California.

:yikes: If it's doing that: you've got an issue going on, that needs addressing. nojoke
My 2010 was a bit "awkward", when downshifting on it's own: it never acted like yours is! :shocked:

Jer,
that has got to be so frustrating, :banghead: does it also do it in trailer mode? Hope someone here can think of a remedy, wish Nancy's Toy was still here.
I would call the tech back and see if he spoke with BRP yesterday. Have the tech also tell them you are leaving for Spyderfest Sunday.

My first fest in 2011, got my faulty throttle body replaced the day before I left for Cuba. And yes, BRP authorized to take a throttle body off of a showroom bike and place it on mine. Just so I could make the fest. Crossing both fingers for you, that you have similar results. BTW my wife gave the ok for me to go, and later today will find out about my other work obligation. So hoping we can ride together.

TicketBait

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TicketBait

Jer,
that has got to be so frustrating, :banghead: does it also do it in trailer mode? Hope someone here can think of a remedy, wish Nancy's Toy was still here.
I would call the tech back and see if he spoke with BRP yesterday. Have the tech also tell them you are leaving for Spyderfest Sunday.

My first fest in 2011, got my faulty throttle body replaced the day before I left for Cuba. And yes, BRP authorized to take a throttle body off of a showroom bike and place it on mine. Just so I could make the fest. Crossing both fingers for you, that you have similar results. BTW my wife gave the ok for me to go, and later today will find out about my other work obligation. So hoping we can ride together.

TicketBait

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TB

Just hung up with the service writer and he's going to get with the tech(who didn't call me back yesterday). They know I'm committed to go to Springfield, because i chided them about it making it when I picked the spyder up.

Appreciate the thought but, trailer mode would have no influence on proper clutch operation. At best, it's used for RPM control.

As always, I'm trying not to loose my cool here, but it ain't easy.

Personally.... I don't give much hope to making the trip(UNLESS I RIDE ONE OF MY DEPENDABLE BIKES). If it requires a new spring package? I don't think it can get here in time.

Hopefully: it'll just take a quick hookup to BUDS, and an ECM flash... :thumbup:

Hope it's not the spring but a software problem maybe.

The dealership you mentioned was 100 miles away from where you are? When you set out did it begin to occur or happen later and just get worse? Maybe if they locate the issue they can get overnighted. Get the area rep involved, maybe it is Kevin.McPherson@BRP.com

For all we've been through on our 2010 RT:trike: ahh heck Jer, just go by a new one :riding:
I will ride slow the first 500 miles till you break it in.1330club


still crossing fingers, but may not take the trip alone here this time. Ridden there 3 times by myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Hopefully: it'll just take a quick hookup to BUDS, and an ECM flash... :thumbup:

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I wish. I think we both know better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TicketBait

Hope it's not the spring but a software problem maybe.

The dealership you mentioned was 100 miles away from where you are? When you set out did it begin to occur or happen later and just get worse? Maybe if they locate the issue they can get overnighted. Get the area rep involved, maybe it is Kevin.McPherson@BRP.com

For all we've been through on our 2010 RT:trike: ahh heck Jer, just go by a new one :riding:
I will ride slow the first 500 miles till you break it in.1330club


still crossing fingers, but may not take the trip alone here this time. Ridden there 3 times by myself.

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Yep, my dealer is out there. Thing is, you hit the freeway almost as soon as you exit the dealer.

So, the first sign of a problem didn't occur until I exited the freeway at home.

Then, I was sure something was up. (it was late and I had other obligations_

So, test rode it yesterday early AM and knew something was up, placed a call to the dealer.

And here we are.


I appreciate the contact info but, I have little(if any) faith in BRP.

I say that due to years of having to deal with them.

Tho, sometimes they come through.:shocked:

Most of the time they don't. nojoke

I have credit card statements to support that claim:banghead:

Some would say the dealer is at fault. Simple enough - I guess?

I tend to see my Spyder as a package deal however.

#1 BRP decides who will be in their dealer network and should have some quality assurance measures in place. In regards to sales and service.

Next. They(BRP) have many ways to monitor how well a given service department is or is not functioning. Plus, they have field reps that visit each location whom could also provide feedback at the corporate level.

First and most important. BRP has to really C.A.R.E. - and this ol boy doesn't think they do. Based on my experiences with them.

Just the facts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerbear

Some would say the dealer is at fault. Simple enough - I guess?

I tend to see my Spyder as a package deal however.

#1 BRP decides who will be in their dealer network and should have some quality assurance measures in place. In regards to sales and service.

Next. They(BRP) have many ways to monitor how well a given service department is or is not functioning. Plus, they have field reps that visit each location whom could also provide feedback at the corporate level.

First and most important. BRP has to really C.A.R.E. - and this ol boy doesn't think they do. Based on my experiences with them.

Just the facts.

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Good points all. Have you thought about taking the Indian to SF? Too many things happening with :ani29: and pretty close to the departure time. I would recommend the Indian. :popcorn::popcorn:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akspyderman

Good points all. Have you thought about taking the Indian to SF? Too many things happening with :ani29: and pretty close to the departure time. I would recommend the Indian. :popcorn::popcorn:

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Don't take this as rude. I'm simply at my wits end.

When it comes to doing anything with this Spyder it seems I either have to have a backup plan or plenty of money in the bank.:roflblack:

:yikes::dontknow: Hope you do get to make it, tho aside from springs & a really aggressive riding style my guess would be fluid & filter time for a change, should have been done with your previous stuff but, with other things working better now it is adjusting or acting the way other problems were hiding:shocked::gaah:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bfromla

:yikes::dontknow: Hope you do get to make it, tho aside from springs & a really aggressive riding style my guess would be fluid & filter time for a change, should have been done with your previous stuff but, with other things working better now it is adjusting or acting the way other problems were hiding:shocked::gaah:

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Early oil and filter change was done with clutch install. She never gets to 4,500 miles between oil changes and clutch shift function prior to installing the new one was spot on.

The reason I had it changed was when in cruise control and facing 50 to 60 mile per hour headwinds, the clutch would slip when cruise kicked in. I could also detect slippage when in 5th gear cranking hard on the twist grip.

No word back from my early AM call to the dealer and theirs to BRP.

I just called the dealer and the service writer knew nothing and the tech is out to lunch.

So, scrub another Spyder trip.

Consider my registration fee a gift.

This is BS :banghead:



Enjoy your Spyderfest!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chupaca

Being a die hard manual type I'm not familiar with the details on the semi auto. I do recall a fellow ryder having clutch work done and had issues with the springs. Seems there are different ones. Bummer know you were ready to plan your route...:mad: hope they get back to you :pray:

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Have been thinking on this spring thing. The old clutch had 7 discs, the new one has 8. If, and I do not know this. The new clutch pack comes with new springs, they may be stiffer or longer and stiffer to create enough separation for the added 8th disc. If true, the electrically pulsed hydraulic shift mechanism may not exert enough hydraulic force to override the stiffer spring. All supposition on my part, but then again. It may not be far off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerbear

No word back from my early AM call to the dealer and theirs to BRP.

I just called the dealer and the service writer knew nothing and the tech is out to lunch.

So, scrub another Spyder trip.

Consider my registration fee a gift.

This is BS :banghead:



Enjoy your Spyderfest!

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Sorry to hear that. :gaah:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akspyderman

Sorry to hear that. :gaah:

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Thanks! :thumbup:

Let down, but not surprised, is how I'm feeling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerbear

No word back from my early AM call to the dealer and theirs to BRP.
.

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Jer,
call them now before they close. Inquiring minds need to know!:chat::dontknow::lecturef_smilie::gaah::clap:

You would think that if it was a mechanical issue, it would do it even when letting the byke DS. Since it is not doing it I am thinking it is a software issue. I know that some Chrysler cage transmissions will gradually increase pump pressure to compensate for clutch wear. When replacing the transmission, you must use a scanner and reset the pressures or it will very quickly wear out the new clutch. Hoping it is something like that for you instead of another teardown. May just need a BUDS reflash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TicketBait

Jer,
call them now before they close. Inquiring minds need to know!:chat::dontknow::lecturef_smilie::gaah::clap:

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Last I spoke with the dealer I advised I would wait for them to contact me.

Think about it.

For two days they say they have been in contact with BRP and yet no one knows anything.

I have no reason to doubt the calls to BRP have been made.

The service writer even told me the tech gave them(BRP) his personal phone number.

Either they(BRP) are swamped with requests for tech support or......fill in the blanks.

:dontknow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doc Humphreys

You would think that if it was a mechanical issue, it would do it even when letting the byke DS. Since it is not doing it I am thinking it is a software issue. I know that some Chrysler cage transmissions will gradually increase pump pressure to compensate for clutch wear. When replacing the transmission, you must use a scanner and reset the pressures or it will very quickly wear out the new clutch. Hoping it is something like that for you instead of another teardown. May just need a BUDS reflash.

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Hey Doc,

I would like to think if a flash was required it would be a called out in the how to information of the techs manual. As well, if it is something like a spring problem that BRP should be aware of. Then they should have issued a revision to their ordering and replacement procedures concerning that.

As it stands, and after BRP has been aware of this particular issue for a couple days.

They have offered ZERO support.

To me, therein lies the rub.

:gaah:

Three days waiting on BRP for assistance on a clutch problem.

Really?

I'm thinking BRP tech supports keeps tally of the number of calls they receive from a given dealership or tech.

Once that dealership/tech runs out of calls/time for the month.

They are left to wait for a dead spot in call volume at BRP tech support,

or until the following month - when their call/time clock resets.

nojoke

After having been contacted on Wednesday.

BRP finally responded late Friday.

Their response.

Have the customer bring it in so the problem can be verified through a test ride.

In other words.

Until someone says, yup it's broke.

They have nothing to offer?

Now I understand how a bike can spend weeks at a dealer.



NOTE: If you don't like hearing the TRUTH.

Stop reading my posts. :doorag:

Jerbear, my RT SE5 is in the shop for other reasons, but when the tech - whos is Master Certified by BRP & also the owner of the dealership - took it out for a test ride, he said the bike shuddered like crazy when moving from a dead stop. He suspected the clutch. I always warm the bike up, as he did, and have not experienced this to the extent that he described. It did shudder some until I put on a SmoothSpyder belt tensioner, which mostly solved the problem. Anyway, evidently the clutch has shims in it as well as springs. He found that the shims were incorrect. He put in the correct ones, and Presto! Shudder gone. Now this had to have been this way from either from the factory, or from work done by a previous dealer to replace a water pump impeller. Evidently, the clutch has to be pulled (stupid) to get to the water pump. So, as I said before, it has either been like this from day one, or the other dealer screwed up and put in incorrect shims. You might mention this to your dealer and have them make sure that the right shims are in there. I'm lucky in that my dealer only sells and services BRP products, and he knows these machines inside out.

By the way, I have a similar situation as you in that my Spyder is in the shop more than it is out of the shop, so believe me, I feel your frustration. I don't even keep track of how much money I have poured into this bike, because it would be too depressing to know exactly how much. Our bike has been a huge disappointment to us, to the point that my wife refuses to embark on a long trip for fear of a breakdown and being stranded. This has already happened to us when we were (only) 80 miles from home, and she was NOT happy. Thank goodness my insurance covered the full cost of the tow. I would love to dump it, but I just couldn't sell it to someone with a clear conscience.

I hope we can both get all of our problems worked out a at least gain a bit of confidence in our machines. Good luck.

"I would love to dump it, but I just couldn't sell it to someone with a clear conscience."

You sir, have more class than many here who couldn't care less about anyone, other than themselves. :thumbup:

The findings are.

1. The clutch problem was not because of anything the tech did. Should he have known there was a problem from his test ride? Absolutely. No question. But he didn't pick up on it. Lesson learned.

2. Did BRP play a major roll in the cause of the problem. Totally and without doubt.

3. The Spyder didn't get to come home tonight. In fact, I got to thinking about it today and in the last year and a half the spyder has had more mileage put on it going back and forth to the dealer for issues, than it has logged for recreation. Pathetic! :banghead:

4. Because I'm sick and tired of the fan boy BS here. If you're interested in what was/is wrong. PM me and I'll share full details.

Jer

On my 2010 RT S the C clip holding the
clutch pack fell off letting all of the washers fall into transmission
And get chewed up. Get clutch pack checked as my spyder would shift
strange and slow.

Picked the Spyder up this morning and it has been trouble free for 100 miles.

nojoke Really!

:clap: :agree:... I think! :shocked: :dontknow:

Hi Jerbear,

Re: has been trouble free for 100 miles.

You deserve some good news. I hope that it continues for you; fingers crossed.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I used to own a BMW '97 840Ci auto and I belonged to a forum for them; they are a rather rare car. There was one guy on there who had not been able to get his car started for 2 1/2 yrs. He was located somewhere in Scandinavia. Then someone from somewhere said, 'Try this . . . ' She started right up.

First 150 miles and all was well. Picked my girlfriend up for a ride to Big Bear😊 10 miles down the road - 160 miles since bringing the Spyder home and BAM - the P0174 code strikes again. To say I'm pi..ed would be an understatement. I'm honestly at my wits end. And, it is not the techs fault. He has been moving forward in the diagnoses of this problem with BRP tech support at his side through the entire process.

This problem started 18 months ago. There have been more miles put on this Spyder going back and forth to the dealer, than there have been recreationally. By a count of probably 10.

BRP
World Class Touring Bike

My A..!

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

:barf:

Thank you for the updates Jerbear. I would like to see a PM of the issues that were found. BRP needs to do something here. Behind the counter, under the table? Just make it right for the customer. Enough is enough. :thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akspyderman

Thank you for the updates Jerbear. I would like to see a PM of the issues that were found. BRP needs to do something here. Behind the counter, under the table? Just make it right for the customer. Enough is enough. :thumbup:

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PM sent

Sorry to hear about this Jer, if all gets running well maybe we could attend/ and ride out together to 1 or both events in September. Sonora or the Utah one.

TB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TicketBait

Sorry to hear about this Jer, if all gets running well :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:maybe we could attend/ and ride out together to 1 or both events in September. Sonora or the Utah one.

TB

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Appreciate the thought tho

:doorag: