Sprocket Recall - What's Wrong With BRP's Logistics?

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Originally Posted by Latrappe

I have been off of the road here for three weeks due to the sprocket failing as it is my only form of transportation due to MS. The dealer went all out to get me one here in Aussie, it was fitted Tuesday 20 Dec 2022, now I am out and about again.

The first Picture is after the sprocket started making noises like it was loose, just before it failed,
The first and last Picture show the spline is totally gone on the outside of the sprocket.
Note the middle picture, it shows what's left of the spline. If you notice the burrs, they were actually holding the shaft on the inside of the sprocket, so with bearing pullers by two (broke one); heat; cursing; and swearing, there was a loud bang, and the sprocket came off.
Another point to note is the piece of metal that was broken off while getting the sprocket off.

So, what was meant to be a one-hour job took four hours in total, just to remove the sprocket and put the new one back on.

Hope this is of interest for you all. My thought now is that if there is a recall, don't ride it, just be patient, and wait 'til they have the part to fix it.

Have a great Christmas
Lattrape

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Here's my assessment of the final fix. Look at photo 3. See those little tips of the splines? If the sprocket is turned on the shaft those tips are going to restrict the sprocket from being pulled off, just as Lattrape and others described. The washer on the final fix is to prevent those tips from being formed thus assuring the sprocket can be readily removed if and when the splines wear out on the final fix sprocket. The real final fix, IMO, is a combination of the new prescribed Loctite and an unknown, if any, change in the metallurgy of the sprocket. The washer is added to ensure the sprocket splines are slightly shorter than the shaft splines.

Shawn Smoak has a sprocket he can't remove in his video yesterday. Fought it for 4 hours and gave up.I'm sure he'll get it eventually but he was bitching about how BRP allocate 36 minutes to complete the repair. Dealers are going to avoid these jobs once word gets out it's a big looser for them.:banghead:

Can't avoid them, but they can certainly push them back. Recall/warranty work is usually a money loser for dealerships.

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Originally Posted by Cobwebs

Shawn Smoak has a sprocket he can't remove in his video yesterday. Fought it for 4 hours and gave up.I'm sure he'll get it eventually but he was bitching about how BRP allocate 36 minutes to complete the repair. Dealers are going to avoid these jobs once word gets out it's a big looser for them.:banghead:

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He can't remove it because he is using the wrong type of puller. You cannot pull on the flange, it will just snap off.....as he found out.
Still its more than a 36 minute repair even if you use the right tools.

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Originally Posted by troop

Can't avoid them, but they can certainly push them back. Recall/warranty work is usually a money loser for dealerships.

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Ironically the longer they leave it the harder it gets to remove by the look of it.

I watched Smoakes latest video today on the removal of that old sprocket. It looked like a pretty ugly job getting that old one off. It seems he needed a 10 ton hydraulic puller, heat from a torch and a pneumatic air hammer to free the beast and even with all of that it looked very time consuming. I hope Mr. Smoakes has some better paying jobs lined up because if this is what he has to face everyday for the next 6 months I think he will quit. To the guy who posted in this thread earlier that a good tech can beat factory time all I have to say is haha, yeah right!

Hello From Aus

As I mentioned earlier, just had my new sprocket installed. One thing I noticed is the belt had a large gap from the rear flange and appeared it was about to fly off, so back to the service centre who were quite surprised that the belt had tracked out so far as the belt tension was right, rear wheel was tracking true. So after some work, the belt was back to a credit card width off of the flange and all looked good even after the one and a half hour ride home. The only explanation they have is that the new sprocket is slightly different to the old one which caused the drive belt to track differently; believable or not, it's hard to say, but just keep an eye on the belt when they do the recall. ;)

:coffee:...Oh man, I am feeling the pain of this sprocket update/replacement. Hopefully all the problems will be resolved before April 2023. That's my Christmas Wish.

Stay Healthy. ....:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Latrappe

Hello From Aus

As I mentioned earlier, just had my new sprocket installed. One thing I noticed is the belt had a large gap from the rear flange and appeared it was about to fly off, so back to the service centre who were quite surprised that the belt had tracked out so far as the belt tension was right, rear wheel was tracking true. So after some work, the belt was back to a credit card width off of the flange and all looked good even after the one and a half hour ride home. The only explanation they have is that the new sprocket is slightly different to the old one which caused the drive belt to track differently; believable or not, it's hard to say, but just keep an eye on the belt when they do the recall. ;)

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Any time you change any, or all, the components on a belt drive system, it will cause the belt tracking to change. A new belt has a certain amount of stretch and break in, which can cause changes in tracking. Change either pulley, or both pulleys, and the different wear patterns of the old pulleys will be replace by the new pulleys without that wear pattern. Any if this could change the tracking. On previous belt drive bikes, I always rechecked the belt tracking and made adjustments if needed, after about 500 miles of break in on the new parts. Sometimes the tracking would change some, other times no change.

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Originally Posted by Woodenfish

I watched Smoakes latest video today on the removal of that old sprocket. It looked like a pretty ugly job getting that old one off. It seems he needed a 10 ton hydraulic puller, heat from a torch and a pneumatic air hammer to free the beast and even with all of that it looked very time consuming. I hope Mr. Smoakes has some better paying jobs lined up because if this is what he has to face everyday for the next 6 months I think he will quit. To the guy who posted in this thread earlier that a good tech can beat factory time all I have to say is haha, yeah right!

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Smoak made the job far worse than it needed to be because he did not know what he was doing. A 3 arm harmonic balancer puller with nuts behind the sprocket would have had it off in less than an hour. He did not need to break the sprocket, destroy and cut off the rear flange nor buy that expensive hydraulic puller that does not fit the sprocket without destroying it. You cannot pull the sprocket off by the flanges.

Still its a couple hour job start to finish even if you know what you are doing and BRP only pays 36 minutes. Shops are going to begin refusing to do the work for free as they are not going to eat 1.5 hours labor on each of hundreds of Spyders. And yes, they can ask the customer to pay additional hours if the manufacture refuses to do so. its bad form and pisses off customers, but if this keeps up, more will. BRP is drastically under paying on this repair and the techs are dealers are not going to just eat it.

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Originally Posted by jcthorne

Smoak made the job far worse than it needed to be because he did not know what he was doing. A 3 arm harmonic balancer puller with nuts behind the sprocket would have had it off in less than an hour. He did not need to break the sprocket, destroy and cut off the rear flange nor buy that expensive hydraulic puller that does not fit the sprocket without destroying it. You cannot pull the sprocket off by the flanges.

Still its a couple hour job start to finish even if you know what you are doing and BRP only pays 36 minutes. Shops are going to begin refusing to do the work for free as they are not going to eat 1.5 hours labor on each of hundreds of Spyders. And yes, they can ask the customer to pay additional hours if the manufacture refuses to do so. its bad form and pisses off customers, but if this keeps up, more will. BRP is drastically under paying on this repair and the techs are dealers are not going to just eat it.

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:agree: .... annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I'm NEVER selling my " fretting free " 14 RT :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ..... Only BRP knows what was changed at the end of the 14 model year .... and they are NEVER telling us ...... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by jcthorne

Smoak made the job far worse than it needed to be because he did not know what he was doing. A 3 arm harmonic balancer puller with nuts behind the sprocket would have had it off in less than an hour. He did not need to break the sprocket, destroy and cut off the rear flange nor buy that expensive hydraulic puller that does not fit the sprocket without destroying it. You cannot pull the sprocket off by the flanges.

Still its a couple hour job start to finish even if you know what you are doing and BRP only pays 36 minutes. Shops are going to begin refusing to do the work for free as they are not going to eat 1.5 hours labor on each of hundreds of Spyders. And yes, they can ask the customer to pay additional hours if the manufacture refuses to do so. its bad form and pisses off customers, but if this keeps up, more will. BRP is drastically under paying on this repair and the techs are dealers are not going to just eat it.

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Shawn is a great wrench but I don't think he has much experience changing out sprockets, if he did he would have used a harmonic balancer puller like we do. He seems to read our post so maybe he'll give that a try next time.

Lamont, can you show a picture of what you are using.........With out any trade secrets.

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

:agree: .... annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I'm NEVER selling my " fretting free " 14 RT :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ..... Only BRP knows what was changed at the end of the 14 model year .... and they are NEVER telling us ...... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

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Me neither, and why would you tell the world you did something really stupid unless you were a real stand up guy?

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Originally Posted by old Timer

Lamont, can you show a picture of what you are using.........With out any trade secrets.

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You have to thread through the holes on the sprocket to a flanged nut on the backside of the sprocket.

Lamont & JC, when you look at the pics in post #70 and my comment in #76 it sure seems to me that the worn sprocket rotates on the shaft thus causing the tips on the inside end of the sprocket splines to be behind the ends of the shaft splines. What's the feasibility of rotating the sprocket so that the tips align with the shaft splines making it easier to pull off? The challenge would be to keep the output shaft from rotating while you rotate the sprocket.

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Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

Lamont & JC, when you look at the pics in post #70 and my comment in #76 it sure seems to me that the worn sprocket rotates on the shaft thus causing the tips on the inside end of the sprocket splines to be behind the ends of the shaft splines. What's the feasibility of rotating the sprocket so that the tips align with the shaft splines making it easier to pull off? The challenge would be to keep the output shaft from rotating while you rotate the sprocket.

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You might be able to put it in reverse before you take it apart and that might line the splines back up if there's enough play in the shaft and sprocket. You would have to loosen the bolt first.
Doing it the way we do it has never failed us but we're not certified Master Techs. ;)

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Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

Lamont & JC, when you look at the pics in post #70 and my comment in #76 it sure seems to me that the worn sprocket rotates on the shaft thus causing the tips on the inside end of the sprocket splines to be behind the ends of the shaft splines. What's the feasibility of rotating the sprocket so that the tips align with the shaft splines making it easier to pull off? The challenge would be to keep the output shaft from rotating while you rotate the sprocket.

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IMS, you might try removing the sprocket retaining bolt and washer, then put the bolt back in WITH-OUT the washer with a small impact wrench. then hold the bolt with a wrench and wiggle the sprocket forward or back. Note: I have not had the problem as of yet so my theory is just worth a thought! GOOD LUCK :thumbup: Bill

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Originally Posted by Lamonster

You might be able to put it in reverse before you take it apart and that might line the splines back up if there's enough play in the shaft and sprocket. Doing it the way we do it has never failed us but we're not certified Master Techs. ;)

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But you gett'er done. After all, that's the point, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Lamonster

You might be able to put it in reverse before you take it apart and that might line the splines back up if there's enough play in the shaft and sprocket. You would have to loosen the bolt first.
Doing it the way we do it has never failed us but we're not certified Master Techs. ;)

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There is not much difference between Master Techs and Certified Master Techs. A real Master Tech as I imagine Lamont is many times over, often is desired as they don't have to follow the required certified method. I strongly suspect that what is done at his shop is every bit as good as the official recall fix.

I am not a tech as I have spent most of my life in the Military and I have always worked on the principle with weapons if it don’t come of easy don’t force it, however Lamonster might be on to the thing as my front sprocket failed while I was going forward causing the tips of the spline in the sprocket to end up on the shaft making it hard or next to impossible to remove, my logic put the machine in reverse to free it up or break the tips off then remove the sprocket. the unfortunate part of doing it this way is listening to the grind and crunching which goes against everything teach you recruits if it don't go don't force it.

Ramblings from a silly old man

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Originally Posted by Knizar

IMS, you might try removing the sprocket retaining bolt and washer, then put the bolt back in WITH-OUT the washer with a small impact wrench. then hold the bolt with a wrench and wiggle the sprocket forward or back. Note: I have not had the problem as of yet so my theory is just worth a thought! GOOD LUCK :thumbup: Bill

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Fortunately I'm not faced with the problem either since I have a 2014. I'm just tossing out ideas that might help someone who does. I would try holding the sprocket with a bolt and wrench as you suggest and then try turning the sprocket by tapping on a tooth using a punch, cold chisel, or screwdriver and hammer.