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I am getting ready to pick up a 2022 Sea to Sky the first week of April and wonder if the factory sway bar is still the same crap they have been installing from day one. Also I will need a skid strip what do you recommend? If i buy this stuff before hand and haul it to the dealer I would assume they would install it at the normal shop rate. What do you think I would be looking at 3 hours?
:coffee: Just curious as to what Dealer did you work with
for your Spyder. Did you have a trade in? Is this your first Spyder?
I tried to deal with Flat Out but they screwed me around twice you can see my review on their websight for the full story. I went with Dreyer. I tried to buy one last season but never got it done so I pre-ordered the unit through the factory to get the 3 year warranty. Once the factory accepted the order they advised me to contact a local dealer and put down a deposit. The wife has been on spyders for years, over 80K miles under her belt. This will be my move from years on 2 wheels to 3.
One of the techs at "LaMonsters" that installed my Elka shocks on my 2021 RTL said that the sway bar end links were the weak point and should be upgraded. i purchased the BaJaRon billet ends and installed them myself and noted that the stock links were some kind of pressed material. Easy job--much easier than replacing the entire sway bar. The shocks made a tremendous difference on some of the very rough roads and were well worth the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by rgus
I also got my Elka shocks at Lamonster on my '21 RT last year. At the time they suggested not going with the sway bar as they said the shocks were the weak point and an upgraded sway bar might actually detract from the benefits of the Elka's. They didn't say anything about changing out the billet ends.
So my question is does changing out billet ends affect the handling or just better wear and longevity? I have been quite happy with the handling and after 7,000 mile have not felt a need to upgrade the sway bar. I would be open to changing out billet ends if that was justified at only 7,000 mile.
I would have to disagree that the stock sway bar is “crap”, rgus. There are many riders who love the lean you get from the stock sway bar…..that is the way it has been designed. (Actually, there are more riding with the stock bar than an upgraded one).
All the aftermarket bar does is effectively give you a flatter cornering experience (of course, it does more than that, but just to simplify) for those who don’t like the roll of the Spyder with the stock bar. I know a number of riders who ride faster on the stock bar than with the aftermarket. I, personally, prefer the cornering experience of the aftermarket stabiliser bar, but that’s just me……..the jury is also out on the advantage of the metal links. The Aussie stabiliser bar manufacturer, RabbitWorks, have been selling their bars without metal links for 10 years, and haven’t seen any issues or dissatisfaction.:dontknow:
Pete
I seriously doubt that considering the conservative way I ride, the sway bar ends were necessary--but they were on sale, came in red to match my Spyder and I wanted to get rid of the pressed plastic stock ones. Naturally I noticed a "huge improvement" in cornering, but I attribute that to the "butt-o-meter" effect. :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by milryder
I think that may explain why I'm happy with my ride. The Elka shocks in addition to more stability over the inexpensive stock ones also give me a smoother ride on bumpy roads. I have pushed hard into corners with complete stability and have ridden some rough roads in several states.
While the Elkas cost more I think to a degree they do a little of what the upgraded sway bar does with the added benefit of a smoother ride. I'm beginning to understand why the Lamonster tech suggested the upgraded bar might interfere with the performance of the Elkas. And I was ready to purchase the sway bar at the same time. I understand why there are different opinions but maybe the 20-22 model suspensions are a bit improved. I will still consider the upgraded heim billet ends.
BRP updated the suspension starting on the 2020 bikes. So you may want to put some miles on it before you decide to upgrade the suspension. On my 21 RTL the suspension works grate but it will depend on your riding style.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by shardt
If you're a conservative rider, you won't need the upgraded shocks/sway bar. The primary benefit of those upgrades show up when riding somewhat aggressively in the twisties. My '20 RT was 'ok' but struggled when pushed hard in curves. I replaced both front shocks & sway bar and now the RT is much more controllable than OEM bits. (based on seat of the pants and ability to now keep up with the 2-wheelers in the SE mountains)>Quote:
Originally Posted by arkyleo
It's been about 10 years or so ago now that a fellow spyder owner showed me his cellphone video of his first spyder that failed because of BRP OEM nonmetal sway bar links. BRP ended up providing him with a new replacement spyder because of a link failure. As the result of the link failure, an accident occurred and the spyder was deemed totaled and the owner spent a short time in the hospital. He told me to check my links and if they were plastic to replace them right away. I did and they were plastic. I quickly purchased and installed Ron's swaybar which came with metal links. Glad I ran across that guy 10 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteoz
No--I really did need the shocks as I found out after a trip to Nebraska --really bad roads. I don't think there is much adjustment on the stock shocks and I was feeling a lot of reactive bounce over the road patches, dips and potholes. The Elkas took care of that. Pricey--but well worth it in my opinion. I did have them do a laser align and and correct the imbalanced rt front wheel at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by RayBJ
I think my 2021 RT handled much better than my 2018 RT (stock for stock) however, I still felt the need to tweek the bike for even better handling so I installed a swaybar on my '21. I never thought either bike was "crap".
I can only repeat that RabbitWorks have been selling their bars using the standard links and have not seen ANY issues in 10 years, 2dogs����*♂️Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogs
Pete
Yeah, I was quite happy with the front shocks on the ‘21 RT, until I had to travel on our rubbish back roads for a few hundred kms, which is where I hit a pothole that was such a big hit that it dislodged my instrument panel, shardt. I now have a set of Ikons on order :2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by shardt
Pete
Yeah, maybe Rabbit hasn't seen many, Pete, but there's definitely been SOME issues with those dodgy OEM links here in Oz, even on Spyders with Standard Sway Bars! :lecturef_smilie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteoz
If I still had some of the busted & twisted/distorted placcy links that I've seen/removed on numerous Spyders, I'd post a pic or 30.... but I'm usually so disgusted at their poor quality when I find them that I huck them PDQ!! :mad: . And I was really 'quite annoyed' when one of my links broke during a rather spirited ryding session too - it more'n just focussed my attention & got the adrenalin going I can tell you!! :cus:
Btw, after that incident, I can personally attest that it IS true, adrenalin really IS brown! :yikes:
Got my bajaron links ordered.
Handling of the Spyders is relative. My 2021 RTL handles fairly well right off of the showroom floor. Vastly better than the 2009 RS/GS that my son bought in the Minnesota. The 2009 was twitch, darted around...a lot, on less than perfect two lane rural chip and seal roads, but was still fun to drive. A laser alignment helped tremendously as it the front was in a "toe out" by approximately 1/4 inch. I did a manual, at home adjustment to eliminate the toe out and that alone helped alot. Put the Baja Ron swaybar on next. HUGE improvement as now it would corner with a lot less body roll. Found a used set of FOX front shocks from an ST and installed those. Also a big help. The net effect was a MUCH better driving and handling 2009 GS with significantly less body roll.
The stock 21RTL does not handle quite as well as the ugraded 2009 GS, but it is not that far behind. The stock front shocks are vastly better than the weak, poorly dampened shocks on the 2009...but are a bit underspung, especially two-up and benefit considerably from the addition of the Baja Ron front preload adjusters. Why CanAm doesn't think adjustable preload for the front is needed while at the same time putting the air bag auto leveling suspension on the rear is beyond me.
A Baja Ron swaybar is on my short list of upgrades as it will help the corning by reducing body roll somewhat. The swaybar upgrade was night and day difference on the 2009.
I can't see why a shop would say "the upgraded bar might interfere with the performance of the Elkas."
While the upgraded swaybar "might" cause just a bit stiffer ride (the swaybars work by tying the two front suspension assemblies together and limiting the body roll of the outside suspension by transferring some of the cornering load to the inside wheel), it will almost certainly help the Spyder corner more securely with less body roll. TOO stiff of a swaybar will make the front suspension harsher. The stiffer the sway bar and bushings, the more the two front suspension assemblies act as one. Ron's bar on the 2009 did not hurt the ride. Only helped the handling and driving characteristics.
Not discounting the upgraded front shocks as I will get a set at some point, but for now the stock front shocks on the 2021, especially with the added preload adjusters, are pretty decent. And the swaybar upgrade will be next as it is less $$$.
Ride safe and its finally warming up!!!
I think this is my first time posting. But anyway I bought a 2021 red rtl last year in June. I put like 2000 miles on it and I can say I loved it. The more I rode it the more stable it got. But I have to say that it was more of a work out with the wife on it. At the time my wife was getting use to here medication (parkinsons) and she couldn't hold herself very well. With just me on the spyder it performed just fine. Now I'm 175lbs and the wife is 135lbs. Se we are not big people. Anyway over the winter, I ordered the ron links and sway bar. I got those installed and went out for a ride, yes it was 35 degrees, coooold. but anyway it was simply amazing with just me. When it warmed up a little more I took the wife out for a ride. All I can say is holy smokes. This is what I noticed. I ran it up to 55 and found that I can almost run without holding on. No hands, at least for a few seconds, never could do that before, that thing just went straight down the road. curves, oh man, no more pushing my feet on the opposite side to stabilize. I now turn around a corner and punch it, now I will say that I am a very aggressive rider. My back ground I fly airplanes, run a bass boat, I'm very active person and hate when I get behind someone that pokes around. I'm 65 not a spring chicken. take care . Oh if I had to do it again, in a heart beat, best thing I put on the spyder.
I can't see why a shop would say "the upgraded bar might interfere with the performance of the Elkas."
I think what the tech was saying was that I wouldn't get the full benefit of the Elkas with an upgraded bar. Got the impression he felt the Elka's would not only improve stability but offer a better ride. I wasn't going to argue since I had planned to add the bar at the same time. Figured he knew more than I did about the combination and he was saving me money at the same time.
What did they upgrade? Different OEM anti-sway bar, shocks, A-Frames, tires?Quote:
Originally Posted by shardt
Only thing I see charged is the front shock and spring.
----------------------------2018-----2020-----------2021
Lower A-arm------706201733 706201733 706201733
Upper A-arm----- 706203433 706203433 706203433
Shock-------------706001549 706003533 706003533
Spring-------------706001830 706001889 706001889
Sway Bar----------706202800 706202800 706202800
Link----------------706200671 706200671 706200671
The upgraded front shock, provided they are dampened properly and sprung properly for the load and the riding needs and riding style should offer an improvement across the board, from a better ride to better control of the Spyder in a variety of operating conditions. A big plus for the aftermarket shocks is the adjust-ability in both damping rates and in spring preload...for as we all know "one size does not really fit all".
That being said, the shocks are only a part of the front suspension. Tires are a big part and also the sway bar ("anti" sway bar to be correct) and its mounting bushings and links are the other big part. These are all things that one has some degree of control over. Not so much frame and suspension geometry though as that is pretty much a constant with the Spyders. For all of this to work best, the front end alignment has to be right as well. As I mentioned earlier, the 2009 GS was twitchy and ill-handling when my son bought it...but a big part of that was the very poor alignment that bike had when he brought it home.
I don't have anything bad to say about the 2021RTL sway bar or handling for that matter as mine is significantly better than the stock 2009 GS/RS (still have it too) was before upgrades. The 2009 GS however was improved in stages by the addition of 1), the Baja Ron Swaybar, 2) a set of Fox front shock, 3) laser alignment, and 4) a set of Vredestein Quatrac 5 tires. All upgrades were complimentary. None degraded the performance in any way. Each upgrade just added to the overall handling and ride improvement.
Based on my upgrades to the 2009 GS, I would conclude that the addition of the sway bar to the 2021RTL will also be complimentary to the ride and handling improvements added by the Elka shocks, and especially toward that handling as it WILL corner flatter with less body roll. And Ron's bars are not so stiff that they compromise the ride to a significant degree. I like to go around corners and the upgraded sway bar will be going on my 2021 RTL sooner rather than later. Still ride Ducatis and dirt bikes so corners are fun.
If you ride two up, the sway bar upgrade will be especially helpful in minimizing body roll with the extra weight of the passenger on the bike. Makes an even bigger improvement with a passenger than solo.
Adjustable front shocks are a great upgrade as they can be adjusted for damping and preload. Can accommodate a passenger better and less likely scrape your nose as easily either in a dip with the extra front preload dialed in. I had done that several times until the preload adjuster was added. Luckily the hits were relatively light and no damage done.
One of the nice things about making a single change at a time is that one can get a better feel for what effect each individual improvement made. But the upgraded shocks and the sway bar upgrade will compliment and not take away from the overall performance...just in different ways.
yes......